In my current game, the party traveled into the elemental plane of water through a portal from a dungeon that was rapidly filling with water.
From their, they have traveled into the Astral Realm, carried from the boarderlands on griffons.
Right now, they are walking a dragon road, following the direction of a layline walker, hoping to make it to the Outlands, then to Sigil, and from there back home.
For wizards using the Core rules, traveling between the planes seems to be pretty easy. Once you hit 9th level, you can basically come and go. That ease of access for traveling wizards seems like it will be the defining feature of this sort of game, and I'm not sure I'm happy with that fact, especially considering how easily they can take people with them.
How do you think I should handle planar travel in PF, while sticking as close to the rules as written? I'm technically running the Emerald Spire right now, but I'm breaking up the dungeon maps across the campaign with a little tweaking, rather than stacking them and running straight through.
Plane Shift, as written, requires you to have a tuning fork attuned to the plane in question as a component for casting the spell.
No fork, no shift.
Where's he getting the forks?
Rynjin wrote: Plane Shift, as written, requires you to have a tuning fork attuned to the plane in question as a component for casting the spell.
No fork, no shift.
Where's he getting the forks?
I get that, but it doesn't hold up very long. The second a wizard from any universe can cast the spell, he goes to Sigil and buys 30,000 folks for each universe for a copper each and spreads them out everywhere. The tuning fork is campy but it doesn't protect the setting,
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Cranefist wrote: Rynjin wrote: Plane Shift, as written, requires you to have a tuning fork attuned to the plane in question as a component for casting the spell.
No fork, no shift.
Where's he getting the forks?
I get that, but it doesn't hold up very long. The second a wizard from any universe can cast the spell, he goes to Sigil and buys 30,000 folks for each universe for a copper each and spreads them out everywhere. The tuning fork is campy but it doesn't protect the setting, If you make up b@+&!$*& to justify why your players are able to do a thing you don't like, why are you complaining when a player does the thing you have specifically houseruled in a way for him to do?
I'm not worried too much about the players. None of them are full casters. I'm more interested in how the setting works. The spell plane shift doesn't have a gold cost, so all wizards with the spell component pouch can use the spell to travel to any plane. Presumably, they have some kind of adjustable tuning fork. That's RAW bro.
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What is NOT RAW is "some random dudebro gave me the forks I guess".
You wanted "as close to RAW as possible" a way to shut this down.
RAW: The spell component pouch is a magic pouch with infinite space that contains literally every item ever made without a specific cost. Sure.
Close to RAW: You need a specifically attuned tuning fork (which is in the spell, so this IS RAW), so you need to find a specific fork, you don't have all of them (close to RAW).
You're the one that has a problem with it.
You asked for a solution.
I gave you one.
Not my fault if you want to throw up a random justification for why said solution wouldn't work, even when said justification makes no sense (why would some random Wizard buy a bunch of tuning forks to give out? How does that serve his purposes in any way?).
Setting-wise, it doesn't work because not everyone has the tuning forks. The Spell Component Pouch is a metagame item. It was specifically made to throw logic to the curb in the name of making the game not a tedious bookkeeping mess for what exactly components and reagents you have on you.
All you have to do to explain it in setting is ignore the metagame construct.
How it's handled in the setting is easy: there aren't all that many Wizards high enough leveled to cast Plane Shift, but those that do cast it whenever they want.
That's the default answer. If you want to handle it by the actual rules, it's trivial to do it.
You seem to want to make it non-trivial. The simplest way to do that is with Rynjin's suggestion. No, it's not RAW-- RAW you're right, the tuning forks are costless so that's a joke. But it's really, really easy to swap that M to an F, and that solves your problem.
You're not going to get RAW and a solution to your problem. The least invasive solution is still going to be altering the RAW.
It is a Focus, but costless Foci are in the SCP too.
Rynjin wrote: It is a Focus, but costless Foci are in the SCP too. ... Huh.
1gp Focus then. With a note that they're not commonly available outside the given plane.
Cranefist wrote: In my current game, the party traveled into the elemental plane of water through a portal from a dungeon that was rapidly filling with water.
From their, they have traveled into the Astral Realm, carried from the boarderlands on griffons.
Right now, they are walking a dragon road, following the direction of a layline walker, hoping to make it to the Outlands, then to Sigil, and from there back home.
For wizards using the Core rules, traveling between the planes seems to be pretty easy. Once you hit 9th level, you can basically come and go. That ease of access for traveling wizards seems like it will be the defining feature of this sort of game, and I'm not sure I'm happy with that fact, especially considering how easily they can take people with them.
How do you think I should handle planar travel in PF, while sticking as close to the rules as written? I'm technically running the Emerald Spire right now, but I'm breaking up the dungeon maps across the campaign with a little tweaking, rather than stacking them and running straight through.
Congrats! You've discovered why Magic is considered Tier 1. Don't like where you live? Go to a different plane easily! Magic can destroy any story you wish to have. Around level 7 is when it starts and it just gets worse every two levels. If you have a spellcaster that might like these, work with him to not destroy the story.
Also planeshift brings you to a plane but may miss the desired location by the mile. So you still have to wade through some of that territory
The answer is "knowledge". He might have a gazillion tuning forks in his 'endless' spell component pouch but the caster in question has to KNOW which of those gazillion forks is the one they need to get to the specific plane they wish to go. That knowledge is where, as GM, I'd create part of the challenge of getting from A to B.
Plane Shift is also (as Entryhazard points out, ninja'd!) quite inaccurate bringing you to within 5 to 500 miles from where you 'aim' to be. The first visit is not going to be anywhere near resembling routine.
So where to mighty caster?
City of Brass.
(Researches appropriately to discover exactly which fork they need, this can be as difficult, time and resource-wise, as you the GM decide to make it)
Casts Plane Shift *poof* You have arrived somewhere within 5 to 500 miles of the City of Brass, now what?
Maybe casts Teleport ... to a place he probably can consider, if he's lucky, as viewed once. A picture perhaps is some Tome about the Elemental Plane of Fire/City of Brass. Might be impossible depending on how an individual GM rules travel by Teleportation.
Otherwise they (the caster and his companions) need to figure out which way to head for the next 5 to 500 miles in order to actually get to the Grand Efreet's Al'Akbar's Tower within the City of Brass. On the Elemental Plane of Fire that quite likely involves more than just deciding x and y (north south east west) consider the party may have to contend with up and down (z) as well as the cardinal directions.
So yes after a trip or two (or twenty depending on 'stuff') the caster may be able to travel there as conveniently as you and I go to the corner grocer ... but no need to make the first trip as easy as 1,2,3.
find the path spell handles finding any location
Rynjin wrote: Plane Shift, as written, requires you to have a tuning fork attuned to the plane in question as a component for casting the spell.
No fork, no shift.
Where's he getting the forks?
No value is listed for the component so an unspecified but sufficient number are included with every spell component pouch. Just like every other focus or component that doesn't have a listed price.
Also, Eschew Materials is still a thing.
Eschew Materials does nothing regarding foci.
Atarlost wrote: Rynjin wrote: Plane Shift, as written, requires you to have a tuning fork attuned to the plane in question as a component for casting the spell.
No fork, no shift.
Where's he getting the forks?
No value is listed for the component so an unspecified but sufficient number are included with every spell component pouch. Just like every other focus or component that doesn't have a listed price. Addressed in my second post.
Chess Pwn wrote: find the path spell handles finding any location Of course.
And advice on how to handle Find the Path are numerous within these threads starting with read the spell and recognize its limitations as well (duration, prominence, direct physical but not necessarily safest path etc.).
Point being it isn't just cast Plane Shift and "yeah we're here at Ak'Bar's citadel!" particularly the first time the caster heads that way and especially at the levels when a caster can first start using Plane Shift unless that's what the GM wants to have happen. How many castings of Find the Path do you think might be involved in a 300 mile overland trek (i.e. a 9 maybe 10+ days long trip)? What if the Path (i.e. direction) changes each time the caster uses the spell ... some of the Outer Planes can be highly morphic for instance. "I'm sorry my companions but the last 3 days we seem? to have somehow been heading the wrong way despite the spell ... errrm let me consult my lorebooks"
300 miles via wind walk is 5 hours. At 12th level, the earliest a group of 4 characters without an abundance of extraneous companions can attempt this trek, the Cleric will require 3 find the path spells and a wind walk, meaning either (a) said cleric has either the Knowledge domain, Travel domain or the Wind subdomain; or (b) the group invests about 9,000 gp for the one trip.
At 12th level travel of any kind should be a non-issue
Entryhazard wrote: At 12th level travel of any kind should be a non-issue Once they get where they're going, generally it is. Crossing planar boundaries is one of the few issues that requires their higher-end resources to accomplish. Depending on the "where", it can take nearly all of their resources to not only get where they want to go, but to survive the trip in the first place due to the nasty environmental factors.
Quote: For wizards using the Core rules, traveling between the planes seems to be pretty easy. Once you hit 9th level, you can basically come and go. That ease of access for traveling wizards seems like it will be the defining feature of this sort of game, and I'm not sure I'm happy with that fact, especially considering how easily they can take people with them. Totally different direction but why does it bother you (and apparently others as well)? So what if a caster/wizard/adventurer can travel rapidly between point A and point B? Seems like complaining that I could use a private jet to travel between Charleston SC and New York NY rather than a car, train, bus or jet ski.
If it really does put a crimp in your fun the easiest and probably least disruptive solution is make the Fork cost more than 1gp followed by requiring the caster needing to learn what Fork goes to where. It doesn't even have to be all forks. Maybe some of them are common and cheap (and found inside component pouches) while others are made of platinum and iridium alloys and not so common or cheap (and hence not found inside component pouches) It's your game and RAW says you get to call the shots including deciding what exactly RAW is for your game.
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