Is some baseline stat array monsters get that I can use in order to derive what a creature's racial bonuses might be? For example, the mongrelman from the beastiary has the following stats:
Str 14
Dex 13
Con 15
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 7
So given this, is there a way to determine what the mongrelman's racial bonuses are so I can use a different baseline array or a point buy in order to generate a different set of stats?
Since this creature has racial hit dice, you subtract 10 (if the ability score is even) or 11 (if the ability score is odd) from the listed ability score. In the case of the Mongrelman, that gives you:
Str +4
Dex +2
Con +2
Int +0
Wis +2
Cha -4
Since this creature has racial hit dice, you subtract 10 (if the ability score is even) or 11 (if the ability score is odd) from the listed ability score. In the case of the Mongrelman, that gives you:
Str +4
Dex +2
Con +2
Int +0
Wis +2
Cha -4
Nice! This was exactly what I was looking for. Is this written down somewhere in a book by chance?
Nope- That rule's a 3.5 rule, there, however, pathfinder adapted a lot from 3.5. However- a lot of monsters are built via either the Standard Array or the elite array- With monsters as NPCs, I generally go with the following methods:
Either subtract the elite array to gain the monsters at CR, or with the standard array for CR +1. Up to DM descretion.
The arrays for NPCs are here. This details how they design NPCs, so it might prove useful.
So, with that, a Mongrelmans stat array would be this:
Str 14 - 12 = +2
Dex 13 - 11 = +2
Con 15 - 13 = +2
Int 10 - 9 = -2
Wis 12 - 10 = +2
Cha 7 - 8 = -2
For him to be considered a level two character, OR
Str 14 - 14 = +0
Dex 13 - 13 = +0
Con 15 - 15 = +0
Int 10 - 10 = +0
Wis 12 - 12 = +0
Cha 7 - 9 = -2
As a level one character. Admitably, this grants him an extra hit dice, but maybe the -2 cha serves it well.
This is basically how I designed it, at any rate.
At any rate, the rules for monsters as PCs are uncommon, at least. this is basically all there is on the subject.
Hmm...
I've used all three methods but haven't been able to match them to the racial modifiers listed in the Race Guide. The 13,12,11,10,9,8 array comes the closest, but it's still off. Are the racial modifiers listed in the race guide different for some reason?
Nope- That rule's a 3.5 rule
Wrong, its a Pathfinder rule too.
The creature’s ability scores are listed here. Unless otherwise indicated, a creature’s ability scores represent the baseline of its racial modifiers applied to scores of 10 or 11. Creatures with NPC class levels have stats in the standard array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8), while creatures with character class levels have the elite array (15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8); in both cases, the creature’s ability score modifiers are listed at the end of its description.
So, since Mongrelmen have less than 4 Racial HD and no levels in any class....
+4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Wis, -4 Cha
Just like David said.
If it had more HD, you would have to figure where its ability increase went, and if it had levels it would use one of the arrays.
Don't forget, if you add levels to a monster with racial HD you add +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities.
The creature’s ability scores are listed here. Unless otherwise indicated, a creature’s ability scores represent the baseline of its racial modifiers applied to scores of 10 or 11. Creatures with NPC class levels have stats in the standard array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8), while creatures with character class levels have the elite array (15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8); in both cases, the creature’s ability score modifiers are listed at the end of its description.So, since Mongrelmen have less than 4 Racial HD and no levels in any class....
+4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Wis, -4 Cha
Just like David said.
If it had more HD, you would have to figure where its ability increase went, and if it had levels it would use one of the arrays.
Don't forget, if you add levels to a monster with racial HD you add +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities.
That's what I thought too, but where I'm getting hung up is that it conflicts with the few examples listed in the ARG. For example, the stats in the bestiary for the ogre are as follows:
Str 21
Dex 8
Con 15
Int 6
Wis 10
Cha 7
So if you apply the rule in the Bestiary you end up with +10 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, -4 Int, +0 Wis, and -2 Cha. However, according to the ARG an ogre's modifiers are +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, and -2 Cha.
Does any one know if it's a deliberate change between the Beastiary and ARG, or merely an oversight?
The example races that they build in the Bestiary don't match the monsters in the Bestiary.
Look at the Lizardfolk. A Bestiary Lizardfolk has +5 natural armor, the ARG version is only +1.
Note that these races are only an approximation of their monstrous counterparts and may not match exactly.
Huh?
If you assume he put his bump I Str, then his base Str is 20, - 10 is still a +10 racial Str bonus, not 11.
But his Cha is -4, not -2.