Which oracle curse is the least... damaging for you?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Let's say you want to play an oracle and must select a curse, which one is the least damaging for you, mecanically?

I keep thinking that the Tongues curse doesn't hamper you... at all. By 10th level, you're... pretty much clear. Why? Because if your allies want to warn you, you understand them. You can't answer back unless they understand you, but... let's face it, what's so complicated for the other players to invest 2 skill points to learn your selected language anyway?

That's my opinion though. What's yours?


I rather like Haunted. If you're not a weapon wielder it should be fine.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
I rather like Haunted. If you're not a weapon wielder it should be fine.

Burned is this, but more. ^_^


Lame isn't bad, if you're not walking under your own power.


Of all the curses, Legalistic has the smallest downside (and smallest upside as well).

Liberty's Edge

I've heard the legalistic one isn't bad.

Liberty's Edge

Legalistic is the only one that can literally be completely negated, simply by never actually making a promise. Of course, in so doing you forgo any benefit as well, but it's unquestionably the least damaging.


Tongues is pretty light too... Doesn't give you much of a benefit, though.

Dark Archive

Legalistic is the best for this as you can get the bonuses by only making promises when it benefits you immediately, which is the whole point anyway. The best oracle curse is if you have the reptile subtype you can take cold-blooded lizardfolk which has a big downside if you're playing something like Reign of Winter, but otherwise free move actions is ridiculously wonderful.


Legalistic: Source?

Liberty's Edge

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Tectorman wrote:
Legalistic: Source?

Blood of Fiends, I believe.

Scarab Sages

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The infested curse for goblins is great.


Haunted or the one for languages depending on how a GM interprets haunted. Everyone taking a skill point in linguistics is punishing the party not you.


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Shoutouts to Oradins who pick Legalistic.

"Oh no, I'm cursed with honesty. Woe is me."

Dark Archive

Where is legalistic found?


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Legalistic Curse is in Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Fiends according to the PFSRD.


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Chris Ballard wrote:
Where is legalistic found?

Blood of Fiends if I remember correctly. There were three curses, on for every major type of fiend, this one was the one associated with Devils.

Dark Archive

Ok thanks.


Wasting on anyone who doesn't use diplomacy or UMD.
Burned on anyone not wielding weapons.
Legalistic on anyone not lying.


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One difficulty about the tongues curse, which I didn't realize for a bit, is that it makes language-dependent spells hard to use in combat, particularly at lower levels.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

unchained from 3pp is my go to, basically removes your alignment but outsiders distrust the hell out of you.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
JiCi wrote:

Let's say you want to play an oracle and must select a curse, which one is the least damaging for you, mecanically?

I keep thinking that the Tongues curse doesn't hamper you... at all. By 10th level, you're... pretty much clear. Why? Because if your allies want to warn you, you understand them. You can't answer back unless they understand you, but... let's face it, what's so complicated for the other players to invest 2 skill points to learn your selected language anyway?

That's my opinion though. What's yours?

It doesn't work that way. In combat, the language block operates both ways.

Shadow Lodge

LazarX wrote:
JiCi wrote:

Let's say you want to play an oracle and must select a curse, which one is the least damaging for you, mecanically?

I keep thinking that the Tongues curse doesn't hamper you... at all. By 10th level, you're... pretty much clear. Why? Because if your allies want to warn you, you understand them. You can't answer back unless they understand you, but... let's face it, what's so complicated for the other players to invest 2 skill points to learn your selected language anyway?

That's my opinion though. What's yours?

It doesn't work that way. In combat, the language block operates both ways.

Not at level 10.

Tongues Curse wrote:
At 10th level, you can understand any spoken language, as if under the effects of tongues, even during combat.


IME, Haunted can be easily worked around most of the time with a little planning and reliance on your own spells rather than items.
However, if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to keep pulling various things from your belt/pack, like wands or potions or scrolls, you are f!%&ed - it's one of the reasons we wiped on the final battle of RHoD since I was able to only act once every two rounds.

Scarab Sages

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Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

IME, Haunted can be easily worked around most of the time with a little planning and reliance on your own spells rather than items.

However, if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to keep pulling various things from your belt/pack, like wands or potions or scrolls, you are f$&%ed - it's one of the reasons we wiped on the final battle of RHoD since I was able to only act once every two rounds.

Wands can go in a sheath, Potions on a bandoleer, and scrolls in a scroll case. All would be accessible under a haunted curse. It's only when you need to access your pack that that you are screwed.

You really just need proper equipment.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
JiCi wrote:

Let's say you want to play an oracle and must select a curse, which one is the least damaging for you, mecanically?

I keep thinking that the Tongues curse doesn't hamper you... at all. By 10th level, you're... pretty much clear. Why? Because if your allies want to warn you, you understand them. You can't answer back unless they understand you, but... let's face it, what's so complicated for the other players to invest 2 skill points to learn your selected language anyway?

2 skill points? It only takes one skill point in Linguistics to learn a new language, even if Linguistics is not a class skill for you.


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Haunted is my favorite.

In one game I had a Haunted oracle who ended up being isolated and surrounded by zombies. Pretty much everyone thought I was going to die.

I upended my pack.

In that pack I had Holy Water, Alchemist Fire, Acid and Bottled Frost, and a bunch of tools.

The haunted curse throws everything you drop ten feet in a random direction. None of the bombs were actually aimed, but they did do splash damage to everything in their area when they broke.

Nearly fourty randomly distributed alchemical bombs later and the horde was gone.

I, being ten feet away from all the points of impact, was unharmed.


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Doomed Hero wrote:

Haunted is my favorite.

In one game I had a Haunted oracle who ended up being isolated and surrounded by zombies. Pretty much everyone thought I was going to die.

I upended my pack.

In that pack I had Holy Water, Alchemist Fire, Acid and Bottled Frost, and a bunch of tools.

The haunted curse throws everything you drop ten feet in a random direction. None of the bombs were actually aimed, but they did do splash damage to everything in their area when they broke.

Nearly fourty randomly distributed alchemical bombs later and the horde was gone.

I, being ten feet away from all the points of impact, was unharmed.

I smell some potential TO cheese.


Snowblind wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

Haunted is my favorite.

In one game I had a Haunted oracle who ended up being isolated and surrounded by zombies. Pretty much everyone thought I was going to die.

I upended my pack.

In that pack I had Holy Water, Alchemist Fire, Acid and Bottled Frost, and a bunch of tools.

The haunted curse throws everything you drop ten feet in a random direction. None of the bombs were actually aimed, but they did do splash damage to everything in their area when they broke.

Nearly fourty randomly distributed alchemical bombs later and the horde was gone.

I, being ten feet away from all the points of impact, was unharmed.

I smell some potential TO cheese.

What's TO?


I have to throw another vote for Tongues for two reasons.

1. How often do you talk during combat? I don't know about you but it's fairly low for me.

2. You don't even need the whole party to learn the language, one (or two in case the one gets knocked out) can translate for you. Not to mention some of languages come up fairly often on my experience, so then it's not even a skill point cost (if they pick it at first level or they already were going to get it)


Doomed Hero wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

Haunted is my favorite.

In one game I had a Haunted oracle who ended up being isolated and surrounded by zombies. Pretty much everyone thought I was going to die.

I upended my pack.

In that pack I had Holy Water, Alchemist Fire, Acid and Bottled Frost, and a bunch of tools.

The haunted curse throws everything you drop ten feet in a random direction. None of the bombs were actually aimed, but they did do splash damage to everything in their area when they broke.

Nearly fourty randomly distributed alchemical bombs later and the horde was gone.

I, being ten feet away from all the points of impact, was unharmed.

I smell some potential TO cheese.
What's TO?

Love the story.

CO = Character Optimize = Theoretically playable
TO = Total Optimize = Maximum theory-craft for a specific thing

/cevah


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Shattered Psyche from Iron Gods isn't bad.. -2 to int skill rolls, wis skills and concentration checks for ultimately complete immunity to mind affecting effects.


Cevah wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

Haunted is my favorite.

In one game I had a Haunted oracle who ended up being isolated and surrounded by zombies. Pretty much everyone thought I was going to die.

I upended my pack.

In that pack I had Holy Water, Alchemist Fire, Acid and Bottled Frost, and a bunch of tools.

The haunted curse throws everything you drop ten feet in a random direction. None of the bombs were actually aimed, but they did do splash damage to everything in their area when they broke.

Nearly fourty randomly distributed alchemical bombs later and the horde was gone.

I, being ten feet away from all the points of impact, was unharmed.

I smell some potential TO cheese.
What's TO?

Love the story.

CO = Character Optimize = Theoretically playable
TO = Total Optimize = Maximum theory-craft for a specific thing

/cevah

It's actuallly Character Optimization and Theoretical Optimization.

Character Optimization includes things that a decent portion of GMs are likely to allow at the table (at least for a time) and don't depend upon highly favorable GM rulings. Things like God Wizards tossing around dazing lightning balls or beast totem invulnerable ragers. They might be really powerful, but they function as they are supposed to according to both the rules as written and the rules as intended

Theoretical Optimization includes stuff like Pun-Pun, the Hulking Hurdler and a build that would abuse the haunted curse. In the case of abusing the haunted curse, it relies on a)emptying a container to be considered "dropping" the contained items, as opposed to just items released from the oracle's hands, and b) that alchemical items tossed around by the curse detonate as if thrown at the square they landed in. It also assumes the GM won't throw out the rules because they clearly were not designed to handle such an extreme situation. Since all of these things being allowed is very unlikely barring an extremely permissive GM, this build falls under TO.


Snowblind wrote:
Cevah wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

Haunted is my favorite.

In one game I had a Haunted oracle who ended up being isolated and surrounded by zombies. Pretty much everyone thought I was going to die.

I upended my pack.

In that pack I had Holy Water, Alchemist Fire, Acid and Bottled Frost, and a bunch of tools.

The haunted curse throws everything you drop ten feet in a random direction. None of the bombs were actually aimed, but they did do splash damage to everything in their area when they broke.

Nearly fourty randomly distributed alchemical bombs later and the horde was gone.

I, being ten feet away from all the points of impact, was unharmed.

I smell some potential TO cheese.
What's TO?

Love the story.

CO = Character Optimize = Theoretically playable
TO = Total Optimize = Maximum theory-craft for a specific thing

/cevah

It's actuallly Character Optimization and Theoretical Optimization.

Character Optimization includes things that a decent portion of GMs are likely to allow at the table (at least for a time) and don't depend upon highly favorable GM rulings. Things like God Wizards tossing around dazing lightning balls or beast totem invulnerable ragers. They might be really powerful, but they function as they are supposed to according to both the rules as written and the rules as intended

Theoretical Optimization includes stuff like Pun-Pun, the Hulking Hurdler and a build that would abuse the haunted curse. In the case of abusing the haunted curse, it relies on a)emptying a container to be considered "dropping" the contained items, as opposed to just items released from the oracle's hands, and b) that alchemical items tossed around by the curse detonate as if thrown at the square they landed in. It also assumes the GM won't throw out the rules because they clearly were not designed to handle such an extreme situation. Since all of these things being allowed is very unlikely barring...

Snowblind, you're making a lot of assumptions there... Perhaps his character was a hoarder that had some sort of infatuation with alchemical items and carried holy water, because it's extremely handy against demons? Perhaps he never even thought about the situation until he was suddenly surrounded by a horde of undead and thought... I wonder? "Hey, GM, what do you think would happen if I did this?"

If he based his entire character concept around something this niche... I am currently playing with one of Doomed Hero's characters in a RoW and GMing a game with another. That's not the sort of thing I have seen from his characters.


DominusMegadeus wrote:

Shoutouts to Oradins who pick Legalistic.

"Oh no, I'm cursed with honesty. Woe is me."

your sarcasm is duly noted :P

Silver Crusade

I've found lame has the least bite with the right mystery. It knocks your movement down, but if you take the Metal Mysteries, it ends up doing absolutely nothing but help you.

Wasting also isn't too bad unless you focus on charisma based skills. It doesn't mess with your spellcasting, it just means you won't be party face, in exchange for disease perks.

Deaf is nasty, but oddly not as bad as clouded vision. Your spellcasting isn't messed with because your spells all count as silent. You just can't hear, but the curse chain gives you a lot of other detection goodies.

EDIT: Being deaf also grants you functional immunity to all but the highest level charm spells.

You don't benefit from your party bard though.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
PIXIE DUST wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:

Shoutouts to Oradins who pick Legalistic.

"Oh no, I'm cursed with honesty. Woe is me."

your sarcasm is duly noted :P

does sarcasm count as lying/dishonesty?


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Faelyn wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
...

Snowblind, you're making a lot of assumptions there... Perhaps his character was a hoarder that had some sort of infatuation with alchemical items and carried holy water, because it's extremely handy against demons? Perhaps he never even thought about the situation until he was suddenly surrounded by a horde of undead and thought... I wonder? "Hey, GM, what do you think would happen if I did this?"

If he based his entire character concept around something this niche... I am currently playing with one of Doomed Hero's characters in a RoW and GMing a game with another. That's not the sort of thing I have seen from his characters.

My point was that allowing the haunted curse to function like that all the time leads to an explosive-runes-ish way of instagibbing things that you shouldn't be able to hurt at all.

I am not saying that Doomed Hero is playing a build that uses TO to break the game. Rather, if he or someone else attempted to abuse the ruling that his GM made in a single situation in order to nuke CR25 creatures with a bag of holding filled with alchemical items then that would qualify as TO. I guessed that he wasn't doing the trick all of the time - it had just occurred to him in the moment and his GM went with it because either Rule of Cool or because he was likely to die if the GM didn't rule in his favor(and his GM is one that doesn't enjoy seeing PCs get killed).


Spook205 wrote:
You don't benefit from your party bard though.

You can if it's a visual performance like dancing


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Entryhazard wrote:
Spook205 wrote:
You don't benefit from your party bard though.
You can if it's a visual performance like dancing

man look at that guy's groove it just inspires me to greatness.

Silver Crusade

Bandw2 wrote:
Entryhazard wrote:
Spook205 wrote:
You don't benefit from your party bard though.
You can if it's a visual performance like dancing
man look at that guy's groove it just inspires me to greatness.

I'd make a comment, but I've run far too many dark dancers against my party. Who've also commented on the fact that the guy is putting down the moves hard enough to add 2 damage to everything that hits them.

...always made me wonder if you could countersong danced based performances...counterdance?

Still, in general deaf doesn't hurt too much, except in social environments and the like. You don't hear noises, you can't hear sounds.

A kind DM might allow you to make constant linguistics or perception checks to read people's lips though.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Spook205 wrote:


I'd make a comment, but I've run far too many dark dancers against my party. Who've also commented on the fact that the guy is putting down the moves hard enough to add 2 damage to everything that hits them.

...always made me wonder if you could countersong danced based performances...counterdanceDance-off?

Still, in general deaf doesn't hurt too much, except in social environments and the like. You don't hear noises, you can't hear sounds.

A kind DM might allow you to make constant linguistics or perception checks to read people's lips though.


Hmm... Well...

I thought tongues would be a nothing. Everyone just had to put a single skill point in linguistics to learn celestial and it would have no effect. Plus then we could make plans out loud during combat and the opposition couldn't usually understand. However, no one else (except the alchemist) was willing to put a single skill point into linguistics until about level 10.

Then I thought haunted would be ok. But then I kept finding the need to get out this scroll, wand, rod, whatever during combat and couldn't get to it fast enough.


I've found Lame to be the least pain playing a caster life oracle. Life Link and Channel Energy gave me ranged healing at low levels. At higher levels, I am simply using spells and buffs at range like any other caster. But, my absolute favorite part is that I can simply ignore encumbrance calcs. And it isn't hard to increase land speed to "negate" the curse.

Haunted is the worst in my opinion, due to the action economy loss. It removes so many strategical options (scrolls, potions, etc.) from what you might be able to do starting at low level and persists through high level. It's a permanent disability without anyway to negate it.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Lame is also pretty harmless if you take the heavens mystery and the Lure of the Heavens revelation - once you can fly, having your land speed reduced isn't a big deal.

As for tongues, another limitation it imposes is inability to share results of knowledge checks about monsters abilities and weaknesses if your party doesn't speak your language. Or being able to share tactics - can't really tell other PCs to get out of an area you want to hit with an area of effect spell, etc.

Scarab Sages

Spook205 wrote:


EDIT: Being deaf also grants you functional immunity to all but the highest level charm spells.

You don't benefit from your party bard though.

You do if they use dance as a performance instead of singing/oratory/instruments.

Dark Archive

NOTE:Not the best thread for this, but I typed it out already.
---
If you're willing to go with the dual-cursed archetype, then choosing deafened and wolf-scarred face makes for a pretty sick combination. All of your spells are silenced, so you take no spell failure chance. Sure, your initiative is among the worst possible in the game (dump dex with a dex penalized race for a staggering -7 to initiative; the bewildered looks I got at tables for going last when I nat. 20'd initiative made it worth it), but in return you now threaten at melee range even while wielding a reach weapon and get all of the role playing fun that comes with looking like a werewolf.

Summary:

PROS:

  • All Spells silenced
  • Bite attack
  • Archetype benefits
  • Immunity to some spells that require you to hear them to take effect
  • Werewolf RP fun

CONS:

  • Perception penalties
  • Skill point tax to read lips
  • Fail sound-based perception checks
  • Werewolf RP consequences
  • Abysmal initiative


Arguably another sick combination, although it takes 5 Oracle levels (and/or the equivalent in halves of your non-Oracle levels) to come fully online, is Wasting (primary) + Legalistic (secondary). The 5th level immunity your Wasting Curse grants you protects you from the penalties of breaking your word for the Legalistic Curse. (Some GMs might argue that since Legalistic is a curse of the same type as Wasting, it bypasses the Sickened immunity granted by the latter one.)

* * * * * * * *

Ever since I saw the Wolfscarred Curse, I keep thinking of a Duckscarred Oracle . . . .

Grand Lodge

I took wasted and lame dual cursed for my whirlwind riding 9 charisma gnome barbarian (Groetus worshiper.) But that was pure cheese up and down. But it was a lot of fun rocking -7 on charisma skills. I used to joke that he would be slightly more charismatic if he were actually dead.


@ Spook - counterdance is called distraction, though it counters a pretty limited array of things.

Heh. my nature oracle's drawback from her lameness curse was fairly irrelevant due to her bonded mount.

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