I could use a lil bit of help with a situation my paladin is currently in. First of I'm pretty new to roleplaying and my current character is my first LG character ever. Now I do wish to stay true to LG, but with out turning in to lawful stupid. Below is a small wall of text as of what has happened so far...
The current situation in our homebrew campaign (Slightly altered Golarion, might even say parallel universe Golarion) is that our party came across a town quite deep in to the untamed lands in an area roaming with bandits, clans of orcs and worse. After helping the villagers with few minor quests we found out that the town is actually quite peaceful and safe do to it being under protection of a local self appointed baron.
Things seemed unusually good and as we spent bit more time in the town we started to notice odd things happening, with all things pointing to the baron. The thing that finally set us on a journey towards this baron was when we were approached by one customer in a local inn who whispered to us that the baron was not all that he seemed, a monster of some kind even. He offered us small purse of coin if we would get rid of the baron and while not accepting anything, we did accept to explore the situation.
We traveled to the fort where this baron was living and were invited as quests. We have now found out that this baron ( who has acted pretty nicely towards us so far ) is in fact a vampire. We have also found out that he is neither evil nor good but neutral ( we have no spells to figure out if he is lawful or chaotic on that axis ) and he has been drinking human blood, the baron had winecellar filled with barrels of magically preserved blood. The blood itself seems to come from the village and only from people who have died from natural causes. Villagers seem to offer their dead willingly to the baron in return for his protection and as far as we know the vampire baron has not killed anyone. To make matters worse we found out that the guy who basicly hired us to get rid of the vampire is working for one of the many bandit groups surrounding the area who would be free to pillage and plunder the whole town if the vampire was killed.
-Desecrating the dead is something my paladin is strongly against
-Vampires being undead are pretty much mortal enemies to whole paladin order
Being LG paladin in this situation is making my head hurt, would be so much easier to be CG or neutral something... any tips how to handle the situation are most welcome.
I think you need to investigate further, just because the baron is undead doesn't mean he's evil. Although there is magic to disguise alignments. If this vampire is the legitimate legal authority then as a paladin you need to respect that, that doesn't mean you need to trust him though.
If you know the bandits are evil they should probably be the first priority as they are the most obvious threat to the village's safety. Afterwards you can figure out what, if anything, the baron is hiding.
1. First and foremost, remember that LG does not mean stupid or suicidal or "death to all things not like me!". It sounds like you know this, but don't lose sight of it.
2. Remember that LG is made up of two parts: L and G. Let's break that down.
3. The Baron is the "the Law" in this area. The highest legal authority. Defying him is very unlawful. Your lawful paladin would want to uphold the Baron's lawful rule until the Baron proves himself to be a criminal or otherwise unfit to be the supreme law of the land.
4. The Baron is a protector of his people which is, ultimately, a good thing to do. You believe him to be neutral, but his behavior (at least in the way he fulfills his obligations as Baron and protector) have been fulfilled in a good way - not evil, and not even neutral. As far as I can tell from your post.
5. Vampires and undead in general are evil and unnatural and should be destroyed. That said, some few of them rise above that and should be judged not on what they ARE but on what they DO. This Baron might be one of those.
6. As long as the baron upholds the law and protects the good people in a good fashion, his BEHAVIOR seems to be much closer to LG than to any other alignment. (which makes me wonder if the GM screwed up a little when you discovered that he is neutral - maybe the GM went with something written on the paper and didn't put enough thought into the vampire Baron's actual actions - or maybe he knows something else you don't know yet).
7. Bandits are, by definition, unlawful. Criminal. Or they would NOT be bandits (unless they have been mislabeled).
Conclusion: You seem to be in between a (possibly) LG vampire Baron (LN at worst) and a criminal organization. Your paladin's duties seem to be clear here: go track down the bandits and eliminate them and their criminal activities. Support the LG Baron but keep an eye on him and make sure he's not slipping into more tradition evil nature of the undead - but until he does, he's apparently earned the benefit of the doubt by his lawful and good behavior, and you should act accordingly until you have good reason not to.
DM_Blake pretty much got the best of it, but there's even more you can do. As a paladin you strive to bring good and order along your own and, perhaps even more importantly, your deities views.
The baron keeps order and his subjects safe. He does a good thing and the only problem he has is his curse of vampirism. It's harder to talk even about desecration if the villagers themselves offer their remains after death.
On the other side of the table you're approached by an evil person bent on bringing harm and disorder.
And you can get the best of both worlds here
- the baron presents the law around - not you - if the people under him accept it then it's legitimate. So tell him of your discoveries and offer help. Not just with bandits, but also offer to seek a cure to his curse. You don't need to destroy undead to get rid of them after all, especially if they're not evil. What they really need is to restore their peaceful rest..or their unfairly lost lives.
|
The above posts are all correct however …
Detecting Alignment is always tricky; however if he has magic up to hide his alignment then he will not show up as anything on detection; The spell Undetectable Alignment will obscure alignment regardless of good or evil.
So if you as a paladin detect evil on him then you will get nothing, as would someone performing Detect Good which could therefore make you think he is neutral.
This does not however prove he is Evil, Good or somewhere between. I would suspect he is LE and using magic to conceal this. A LE Vampire ruler would indeed care for his people like you are suggesting.
However you as a Paladin would suspect he is evil (being a Vampire) but he is also the lawful ruler and without any proof you have to accept the situation as it is. Regardless without proof you can’t do anything against the lawful ruler of the land.
As a vampire he has a very good position with food available without all the messy killing; it is in his interest to keep the cattle happy and as such he is shown as the benevolent overlord who cares for his people; this would actually be true as who would not care for his flock when they provide him with everything he needs to prolong his existence. This does not however make him Good or even Neutral. Showing concern for and protecting the well-being of your cattle is just good sense not good alignment.
Now this does not mean that as a Paladin you should do anything even if you find proof that he is Evil, he is a stabilizing force in an otherwise unlawful area. Remember that Law is just as important to you as Good is and a permanent bastion of Law in an otherwise unlawful area is a very valuable asset. Of course in an ideal situation you would usurp him and place an Lawful Good person in his place but this is not an ideal world and you have to work with what you have. If it is true that he is just taking the blood of the dead then no-one is getting hurt; the dead don’t really care anymore and if he is just draining the blood then there is no real desecration going on. Especially if they are aware this will happen and accept that when they die their body goes to the lord to ensure the protection and long life of their children’s children.
Take out the bandits and be very polite and cordial with the lord as that is your duty; he is the rightful ruler of the area and depending upon the laws he probably has every right to the bodies of those in his domain. It’s up to you but you could mention that you know what he is and you approve of his looking out for his flock as long as no-one gets hurt. This may cause a violent response however and you probably don’t want to fight him.
Regardless I don’t see any issues with you playing a Paladin in this scenario, you seem to have your bases covered and are avoiding playing the Lawful Stupid Paladin type which see’s evil and smites it.
Have fun
Sic
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, the Lord is not actually doing anything Evil that you know of. His Alignment might be Evil, but the evidence seems against it at the moment.
Killing him is thus pretty clearly wrong, and not the proper attitude for a Paladin to take.
Watching him closely for signs of Evil on the other hand seems only prudent.
@Sic_Pixie:
I agree with your conclusion, but would like to make two pedantic notes.
One, vampires can absolutely be Neutral, there are a few official examples. So...the Paladin might be suspicious, but don't assume the vampire has to be Evil.
Two, Law actually isn't as important to Paladins as Good. They fall only for Evil acts, not Chaotic ones, and have detect and Smite Evil, not Chaos. Doesn't change what the Paladin should do in this case (since protecting people from bandits is Good as well as Lawful), but seems relevant.
This may not help with your choices but remember that being Lawful does not mean that you need to respect or believe in all lawful authority. Just that you will adhere to the Lawful authority you recognize these would be the laws and the authorities that are recognized by your order as you are a Paladin this is what allows them to be used as soldiers for the cause
I'd agree that it's perfectly prudent and normal to keep a very close eye on the Baron.
"Law" is not just "what the local noble says it is"; there are older and higher laws written into the moral fabric of the universe, and you can appeal to them against local (in)justice if necessary. This does sound like a good time to consult with the local clergy of a good deity (particularly yours) and see if they have any advice on the subject.
Pray at the temple. See if your deity offers you guidance (thru the DM). Get a Phylactery of Faithfulness.
Finally sit down with your DM and discuss this issue and how he views Paladins and their oaths. Some bad DMs would do this as a Paladin Trap. Some good DMs will give this as a interesting problem to solve.
I think your Paladin is perfectly okay not LIKING what the Baron is doing (or seems to be doing) but should also be able to separate that from whether what he's doing is right or wrong, since that's what a Paladin does.
As-is:
1.) The Baron is a vampire, an unnatural creature whose very existence offends your sensibilities. BUT
1a.) He does not appear to be EVIL, which means you have no right to kill him. His existence may be offensive to you, but going straight up murder-hobo on him because of that is a no-no, especially for a Paladin.
2.) The Baron is "desecrating" the dead, which you might find morally objectionable. BUT
2a.) The bodies are freely given by the townsfolk (to your knowledge) AND
2b.) The "small wrong" of the desecration very much outweighs the alternative "big wrong" of actually hurting or killing the townsfolk by feeding on them.
So you can feel free to DISLIKE the Baron, and MISTRUST the Baron, but you currently have no reason to move against or KILL the Baron just because of what he is.
Though you could also look at it another way (though certainly don't have to, whatever fits your character best): What the Baron is doing is even ADMIRABLE, and is something that should be protected. A Vampire fighting his base bloodthirsty, murderous nature and even channeling his energies towards accomplishing Good? The man should be lauded, and give you hope that maybe other vampires could act this way (or, alternatively, increase your resolve to kill other vampires, as this man has proven that they are not FORCED to feed on and kill innocent people, but CHOOSE to).