Can a magus be an eldritch scion AND a spelldancer?


Rules Questions


Only one ability is modified by the two archetypes, and they're changed in an interesting manner.

Eldritch scion, "eldritch pool" ability (*Emphasis mine*):

Quote:

An eldritch scion gains an eldritch pool of personal magical energy, equal to 1/2 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Charisma modifier. As a swift action, he can spend a point of eldritch energy to enter a state of mystical focus for 2 rounds. This allows him to use abilities from his bloodrager bloodline as though he were in a bloodrage, though he gains none of the other benefits or drawbacks of bloodraging. *At 4th level, an eldritch scion can also use his eldritch pool as an arcane pool, gaining all the benefits listed with the magus's arcane pool class feature.*

Additionally, any magus's class feature or spell from the magus spell list that normally uses a calculation based on Intelligence is instead based on Charisma for an eldritch scion. For example, an eldritch scion with the arcane accuracy magus arcana grants himself an insight bonus on attacks equal to his Charisma bonus, not his Intelligence bonus. This has no effect on the eldritch scion's skills or skill points.

This ability replaces arcane pool, and *abilities that modify arcane pool also modify eldritch pool.*

Spell dancer, "Spell dance" ability:

Quote:

At 1st level, a spell dancer gains the ability to expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to gain a +10 enhancement bonus to his movement rate and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity provoked by moving through threatened spaces for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the spell dancer gains another +10 enhancement bonus to movement and +2 to AC against attacks of opportunity provoked from movement. At 5th level, once per spell dance as a swift action, the spell dancer may use one of the following on himself as a swift action: blur, fly, or haste. These abilities last for 1 round. At 9th level, the spell dancer may instead take a swift action to use dimension door as a spell-like ability once during a spelldance. At 13th level, the spell dancer may instead choose to take a swift action to gain freedom of movement for 1d4 rounds.

*This ability replaces the magus's ability to expend points from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding magic bonuses for 1 minute.*

So they both modify the same ability, but the wordings make it appear as if the changes are compatible.

From rules on character archetypes:

Quote:
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but *none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature.* For example, a fighter could not be both an armor master and a brawler, since both archetypes replace the weapon training 1 class feature with something different.

It seems like it could be interpreted both ways, in my opinion.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It doesn't matter if the changes are compatible.

They both modify the same ability or class feature, so the answer is unambiguously no... the archetypes can not be stacked.


Most GMs will allow it if you talk to them, but in PFS it's a strict no-go.


It doesn't matter if the changes are compatible. They both alter the same class feature. It is not open to interpretation, they cannot be used together.
Say you had two archetypes, one says you gain proficiency with spiked chain the other you lose heavy armour proficiency. Neither interferes with the other, but as they both modify the same class feature they can't be used together.

Shadow Lodge

I see the OP's point.

It's not just that the changes don't step on each others' toes. Because of the line in eldritch pool saying that abilities that modify arcane pool modify eldritch pool, the spelldancer archetype would modify eldritch pool, not arcane pool, and there's no incompatibility - they wouldn't modify the same ability.

Similarly, the unchained rogue and barbarian Danger Sense ability says that it is treated as Trap Sense - though that ability specifically calls out counting as Trap Sense for purposes of archetypes.

I believe the intent is for Eldritch Pool to work with arcana that rely on your arcane pool, the extra arcane pool feat, and similar abilities, and that it does not contain specific enough language to override the archetype restriction. However I would allow it in a home game.


Yeah, that's the general concensus of my group, but the DM is going to allow it because I was already theming my character's background on dancing when I discovered this archetype. A nice fluff decision. Not allowed RAW or RAI, but DM allowed it for flavor.

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