How are bonus spells handled when that spell does not exist on your character's class spell list?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Example: I'm playing an Eldritch Scion, and the bloodline grants me bonus spells based upon that bloodline. However, I've run into a snag when trying to figure out how to place it on my character sheet.

The spell in question, Hideous Laughter, is not on the magus spell list. It is, however, on the Bard spell list and on the sorcerer/wizard spell list... at different spell levels. 1 for bard, 2 for sorcerer wizard.

In cases like these, what level of spell do I consider it for my character's spellcasting?


Well it is from a bloodline, so I think it's a safe bet to stick with whatever level spell the sorcerer spell list has it as.


It's from a bloodline, but the bloodline is a bloodrager bloodline, and the bloodrager draws from the bloodrager spell list. The bloodrager has the same rules question.


The bloodline says which level spell it is added to your list as.


I was under the impression that it defaulted to wizard/sorceror, but I can't find a citation. I could be getting mixed up with this FAQ which, although applying to spell-like abilities, isn't a bad guideline to follow without something more relevant.


I don't see it saying that explicitely anywhere... Is it just that the character level 7 spell is a level 1 spell, 10th is 2, 13th is 3, 16th is 4 across all bloodlines?


Yes. You get it like you would if you were a Bloodrager.


I'm still a little confused at it. Where does it say how a bloodrager gains those spells?


a blood rager gets 4 spell level slots the first bonus spell is a first level spell in the case of Fey its

Bonus Spells:1st Level - Entangle (7th), 2nd level - hideous laughter (10th), 3rd Level - haste (13th), 4th Level - confusion (16th).

Reading over Eldrith Scion seems it may be a bad edit since you skip the first 7th level spell but it says you get 3 more so I think your supposed to get it at the same character level.


When a class feature gives you a bonus spell it counts as the highest level spell you can cast at that level, and it also counts as being on your class list for that character. <---This is for spells that are not normally on your class list.

As an example if I get a cleric spell as a level 8 sorcerer then it would count as a level 4 sorcerer spell.

There is an FAQ on this.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

wraithstrike wrote:

When a class feature gives you a bonus spell it counts as the highest level spell you can cast at that level, and it also counts as being on your class list for that character. <---This is for spells that are not normally on your class list.

As an example if I get a cleric spell as a level 8 sorcerer then it would count as a level 4 sorcerer spell.

+1 well said


Okay, so I just wanted to be clear on this.

As an eldritch scion with the fey bloodline, the spells gained at levels 7, 9, 11, and 13 are all placed into the appropriate slot as follows:

At level 7, I gain entangle as a bonus spell. Because it is not on the magus spell list, I gain it as a level 3 spell since level 3 is the highest level spell a level 7 eldritch scion can cast. It has a DC as if it were a level 3 spell, and must be cast using a level 3 slot.

At level 9, I gain Hideous Laughter as a bonus spell. Because it is not on the magus spell list, I gain it as a level 3 spell since level 3 is the highest level spell a level 9 eldritch scion can cast. it has a DC as if it were a level 3 spell, and must be cast using a level 3 slot.

At level 11, I gain Haste as a bonus spell. Because it IS on the magus spell list, I gain it as a level 3 spell as usual. All the regular rules of using haste normally apply.

At level 13, I gain confusion as a bonus spell. Because it is not on the magus spell list, I gain it as a level 5 spell, since level 5 is the highest level spell a level 13 eldritch scion can cast. it has a DC as if it were a level 5 spell, and must be cast using a level 5 slot.

Am I missing anything here? Also, where is that FAQ? It didn't come up in searching for this answer.

EDIT: If a bonus spell is gained that way, does it for all intents and purposes count as a spell for your class in terms of features? For example, can I use these spells in conjunction with spell combat?


That is correct, but I misunderstood your question. I was thinking of another FAQ. I may have to find a developer quote for proof. I don't know if the book makes it clear.
edit: For spells on your class list this normally is simple because they give them when you can cast them anyway. I am trying to find something for spells that are not normally on your class list.


The real answer here is:
Eldritch Scion is a sloppy mess. You probably need to houserule it anyway, so, I'd just ask your GM.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Not sure if there is an actual FAQ that makes it clear what level they are, but there is a FAQ that says if a class feature gives you a spell then it is on your class list.

The Sorcerer stuff may have been made clear years ago when the system first came out and it was explained.


James Risner wrote:

Not sure if there is an actual FAQ that makes it clear what level they are, but there is a FAQ that says if a class feature gives you a spell then it is on your class list.

The Sorcerer stuff may have been made clear years ago when the system first came out and it was explained.

I thought a dev cleared up what level the spell was but I could not find it. It still needs to be FAQ'd since there is no official answer.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

wraithstrike wrote:
I thought a dev cleared up what level the spell was but I could not find it. It still needs to be FAQ'd since there is no official answer.

I believe you are right, but I think it happened in 2009.


Is it possible to find this dev clarification? I can't seem to find it.


Based on this FAQ, the level of bonus spells from bloodline/domain-like class features are based on the order you gain them.

It is not necessarily the highest level of spell you can cast at the time (bloodragers get bonus spells a level late in that case). So that means you basically gain them in increasing level order. Your first bloodline spell is always a first level spell, and the nth bloodline spell is always an nth level spell.


wraithstrike wrote:

When a class feature gives you a bonus spell it counts as the highest level spell you can cast at that level, and it also counts as being on your class list for that character. <---This is for spells that are not normally on your class list.

As an example if I get a cleric spell as a level 8 sorcerer then it would count as a level 4 sorcerer spell.

There is an FAQ on this.

But doesn't the Magus ability refer to the way they're gained by Bloodrager's normally (adjusting the level it happens)

Aren't the spells level then 1/2/3/4...?


I am going to FAQ this because I cant seem to find that dev comment, and it needs to be answered officially.
Yeah generally the spells are gained in that order Aioran, but there is no text to support that either.

I will post a link to the new thread after I make it.


New FAQ for bonus spells

That FAQ is intended to get an answer for all classes. It also rewords the question so that it is easier to get an answer for.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Johnny_Devo wrote:
Is it possible to find this dev clarification? I can't seem to find it.

Calth just post the relevant FAQ that directly answers this.

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