Do you want to build a frost mage? *cringe*


Advice


So theres a theme i have been poking at for ages now that i wanted to see work, but i think i miss a few things that could work out.

I want to have a spellcaster that gains cool effects and some benefits for using spells of the cold descriptor and/or is ice themed in some way or another.

At the moment i have been poking at something like the winter witch:

Witch ( Winter Witch Archtype ) + Oracle Variant archtype then into Winter witch prestige when i can.

The point is that i want to use the variant multiclassing to pick up the "freezing spell" revelation from the oracle waves mystery to add the chance of slow.
And some fancy use of the Rime metamagic feat.

But its here i grind to a halt as i most likely have to use the spell research system to gain more frost themed spells... or is there maybe a better class combination to go through with this theme?


Witch and Oracle have different casting attributes, so that might hobble your concept. Keeping the winter oracle for its revelations... have you considered a sorcerer as the other class? Both the boreal bloodline and its wildblooded cousin rime-blooded would suit what you're going for I think, plus give you access to all the sorcerer/wizard cold spells on their spell lists.


Fiendish Zen wrote:

Witch and Oracle have different casting attributes, so that might hobble your concept. Have you considered a sorcerer? Both the boreal bloodline and its wildblooded cousin rime-blooded would suit what you're going for I think, plus give you access to all the sorcerer/wizard cold spells on their spell lists list.

Note i said "Variant multiclassing" the new thing in unchained that basically switch out your every 2nd feat for a class feature of your variant multiclass. ( Since i go into a prestige class, i basically traded a single feat for a class feature )

I have seen into the sorcerer, but i am not so sure about the bloodline abilities as they seem boring until i lv 10 ish.

But i will look into the rime-blooded.

Edit: The Rime-blooded is really nice and i think i will try to work out something from that, i still think i need to do some spell research to allow some of the divine frost spells into my spell-list. ( unless the GMs doesnt allow that kind of research )


You should be able to find 'enough' spells that work with the Winter Witch archetype, using a Winter Patron. Also, there is the Elemental Spell metamagic feat, which could be very useful, except for you giving up a lot of feats for the oracle vmc (which I'm not sure is incredibly worth it - remember you have to take a curse as well, and that curse only gets improved at half rate). The Freezing Spells revelation is only going to offer a chance of slowing an opponent for 1 round, until you are 17th level, and many of the other waves revelations are already duplicated for you in the winter witch archetype and/or prestige class.


Dracoknight wrote:
Note i said "Variant multiclassing" the new thing in unchained that basically switch out your every 2nd feat for a class feature of your variant multiclass. ( Since i go into a prestige class, i basically traded a single feat for a class feature )

VMC does not work like that. Prestige class or not you still pay the full 5 feats as you level up for the other VMC class features.


CraziFuzzy wrote:
You should be able to find 'enough' spells that work with the Winter Witch archetype, using a Winter Patron. Also, there is the Elemental Spell metamagic feat, which could be very useful, except for you giving up a lot of feats for the oracle vmc (which I'm not sure is incredibly worth it - remember you have to take a curse as well, and that curse only gets improved at half rate). The Freezing Spells revelation is only going to offer a chance of slowing an opponent for 1 round, until you are 17th level, and many of the other waves revelations are already duplicated for you in the winter witch archetype and/or prestige class.

Well the thing is with the variant multiclassing is that you only give up feats as long as you level that class ( Witch/Oracle in this case ) and when i hit the prestige class i dont lose my feats to the variant classing.

Also the curse progresses at 1/2 CHARACTER level, so even if i do a minor dip it still progresses regardless of my class choices.

But yeah, the Rime-blooded arcana is way better than the Oracle revelation as it is working on cold spells period, while the freezing spells from the oracle revelation is on cold spells with saves only.

Its going to be a few meta-magic feats for sure, Rime Spell, Elemental Spell, Maybe Lingering spell even?


Gilfalas wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
Note i said "Variant multiclassing" the new thing in unchained that basically switch out your every 2nd feat for a class feature of your variant multiclass. ( Since i go into a prestige class, i basically traded a single feat for a class feature )
VMC does not work like that. Prestige class or not you still pay the full 5 feats as you level up for the other VMC class features.

Really now? Pretty sure you only give up the feats if you level in the actual class you multiclassed it with.


Dracoknight wrote:
CraziFuzzy wrote:
You should be able to find 'enough' spells that work with the Winter Witch archetype, using a Winter Patron. Also, there is the Elemental Spell metamagic feat, which could be very useful, except for you giving up a lot of feats for the oracle vmc (which I'm not sure is incredibly worth it - remember you have to take a curse as well, and that curse only gets improved at half rate). The Freezing Spells revelation is only going to offer a chance of slowing an opponent for 1 round, until you are 17th level, and many of the other waves revelations are already duplicated for you in the winter witch archetype and/or prestige class.

Well the thing is with the variant multiclassing is that you only give up feats as long as you level that class ( Witch/Oracle in this case ) and when i hit the prestige class i dont lose my feats to the variant classing.

Also the curse progresses at 1/2 CHARACTER level, so even if i do a minor dip it still progresses regardless of my class choices.

But yeah, the Rime-blooded arcana is way better than the Oracle revelation as it is working on cold spells period, while the freezing spells from the oracle revelation is on cold spells with saves only.

Its going to be a few meta-magic feats for sure, Rime Spell, Elemental Spell, Maybe Lingering spell even?

you're wrong on the VMC. you advance in your VMC progression for each character level - it is in no way tied to your primary class.


CraziFuzzy wrote:


you're wrong on the VMC. you advance in your VMC progression for each character level - it is in no way tied to your primary class.

Aaaaah, read up on the wording now.

My mistake, that is really NOT worth it in any stretch...


Dracoknight wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
Note i said "Variant multiclassing" the new thing in unchained that basically switch out your every 2nd feat for a class feature of your variant multiclass. ( Since i go into a prestige class, i basically traded a single feat for a class feature )
VMC does not work like that. Prestige class or not you still pay the full 5 feats as you level up for the other VMC class features.
Really now? Pretty sure you only give up the feats if you level in the actual class you multiclassed it with.

Yeah, that's wrong. It's half your feats, period.

Sorcerer probably works best, and from experience you have enough ice-themed spells to work with. I did throw in some minor reflavoring of the classics for my version of this-- Emergency Force Sphere manifests as a sphere of ice, for example. Statistics don't change, but the visual does.

The only other thing to note for this is that you are legally required to use the Crystal Tiara from Unchained (under the scaling items).


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kestral287 wrote:
The only other thing to note for this is that you are legally required to use the Crystal Tiara from Unchained (under the scaling items).

As well as maximum ranks in Perform (singing) and Craft (snowmen).


I will also have to pick up the bloodline robe that all sorcerers should go for, any other ice items i should pick up?

Regardless the arcana from Rime-blooded was the deal maker, so with the right set-up even my cantrips can be used for a single turn control.

But what spell school is the majority of the spells for the purposes of the spell focus line?


Skip Spell Focus. Pick up Elemental Focus instead.

The spells bounce a lot between Conjuration and Evocation, with Evocation probably getting more but Conjuration getting a few very valuable ones.


How about Cross-blooded sorcerer?

Elemental/Rime-blooded have a few things that go well nicely especially with the free element conversion on the arcana... it will eat my spells known quite a bit, but is it worth the effects it grants?

Grand Lodge

Look into making an Admixture Wizard with either a dip or Variant Multiclass into one of the cold-themed sorcerer bloodlines. Admixture lets you cast a number of spells per day as the cold element... or fire element, or earth, or air, etc.


VMC (Sorcerer) only grants the occasional bloodline power at higher levels, it does NOT grant the bloodline Arcana at all. Many of those lower level 'cold' bloodline powers are abilities the winter witch already has at that level. Taking a full level in sorcerer to get the arcana might not be worth it as well. in adition to losing some spellcasting progression, I'm not sure that the arcana can even affect spells from other classes (your witch spells).


CraziFuzzy wrote:
VMC (Sorcerer) only grants the occasional bloodline power at higher levels, it does NOT grant the bloodline Arcana at all. Many of those lower level 'cold' bloodline powers are abilities the winter witch already has at that level. Taking a full level in sorcerer to get the arcana might not be worth it as well. in adition to losing some spellcasting progression, I'm not sure that the arcana can even affect spells from other classes (your witch spells).

It can. There's an FAQ on the subject.

This is why people like Crossblooded Sorc 1/Admixture Wizard X


Yeah for extra cheese do a crossblooded elemental/draconic sorcerer 1 level dip with a 1 leveloracle dip then winter witch the rest of the way. You get the ability to turn any elemental spell into cold, do +1 damage per dice with cold spells, and auto slow anyone who fails thier save vs your cold spells - and any patron spells will be at +1dc


For flavor: Pick up some illusion spells, and incorporate a handful of snow as a material component.


Ahh the Ice Mage is a wonderful option for a spell caster and there is a continuum of how to build one.

For damage quite honestly we are best served by Xblood sorc Orc/Drac VMC admixture wizard, and possibily the Irrisen Icemage feat (+1 CL cold spells, -1 cl all other energy types, 3/day switch other spells to cold) at level 1. On you cold spells you will be doing +2 damage per die and starting at level 7 you will be adding half your level to all evocation damage which is pretty dang sweet. Downside? Spells known, which can be partially alleviated by Human FCBs, so locks you into half elf/orc, or good ole human. None of them are bad choices by the by. Build is functional starting around level 5, but jiggered correctly and ray of frost will see you through a lot. Starting at 1d3+2(aracanas)+1 (get a vial of alchemical ice for +1 damage on it). On a hilarious note at level 20 with this build ray of frost does 1d3 +12 damage without any additives. The best part about this build is as long as you don't dump int (you wont dump int as a caster right?) you'll have minimum 6 conversions to cold damage available a day starting at level 7 and 3 per day at level 1 and all of them add a caster level. You play this build like a hammer because it limits your options but the damage it does is acceptable and with Rime spell you add a minor control effect, dazing is what it always is, and that is good.

Now that is a lot of resources and downsides but I personally have played a similar build (no VMC back then) and it was effective (level 2 was unpleasant though).

At the other end of the continuum you just take Rime Spell and play a normal caster. Seriously. Sorc /Wiz spells below. Remember this isn't even a comprehensive list cause it doesn't include divine and semi divine spells like unholy ice weapon and polar midnight.

1st Level spells: Snowball, Frostbite, Icicle Dagger (does it work with rime spell I mean it does deal 1 pt cold damage and the spell has the cold descriptor so muwahaha, conjuration though so no intense spells)

2nd Level spells: Frigid Touch, Elemental Touch (cold)(more effective than you'd think but you need to add rime to it spontaneously), Frost fall great googly moogly Rime Spell Frostfall, even flurry of snowballs.

3rd Level Spells: Ice Spears (ohh the things you can do with ice spears its a mini wall of ice to boot, and of course rime spell it for more fun, is conjuration so no intense spells), Sleet Storm (massive area control), Elemental Aura (cold).

4th Level spells: Creeping Ice (Utility), Frosty Aura (not great unless you have the cold subtype already) Ice Storm, Wall of Ice.

5th Level Spells: Cone of Cold (meh), Icy Prison.

6th Level Spells: Cold Ice Strike (mic drop). Ohh and there is also Otil.... *ahem* Freezing Sphere, Ice Crystal Teleport to round out the level.

7th Level Spells: Elemental Bombardment (Ice), Ice Body, Frost Mammoth.

8th Level Spells: Polar Ray

9th Level Spells: Icy Prison (Mass)

So without sacrificing ONE feature on a caster for an archtype or doing anything fancy with a build you can make an ice mage that can make enemies tremble both from fear and frost.

Regards,
DRS


In the realm of Sorcerers, you might consider the Marid bloodline

Marid Bloodline Sorcerer

The Bloodline Arcana sounds well suited : Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to cold. This also changes the spell’s descriptors to match this energy type.


Ithnaar wrote:

In the realm of Sorcerers, you might consider the Marid bloodline

Marid Bloodline Sorcerer

The Bloodline Arcana sounds well suited : Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to cold. This also changes the spell’s descriptors to match this energy type.

Yeah, but i think i consider a Xblood Cold Elemental/Rime-Blooded set-up and work out how that will function.

The elemental bloodline basically do the same thing as the Marid arcana and change the elemental spells to your elemental type.

added: Also if i am taking sorcerer to lvl 9, the elemental blast will give vulnerability to my element which neither the Rime blood nor Marid powers do, but i am not sure if its worth going all out sorcerer, and just dip into it and go for a wizard with some form of metamagic shenanigans.


So lets see:

1st: Wizard: Universalist / Cold specialist ( if GM allows 3rd party )
2nd: X blooded Sorcerer Rime-blooded/Cold Elemental ( at 2nd level so i can get favored class bonus on the wizard )
3rd: Wizard etc etc.

I will lose a single level of caster progression over the 2 levels of caster progression a sorcerer would give, unless i dont Xblood archtype it.

Arcane casters are a pain to build... i am used to Oracles, Cleric and Druids >_<


Universalist is weak. Literally any other school would be a better pick. D:


I dunno about universalists being weaksauce - they can throw a helicopter blade with their 1st level ability. That is a topic for a different thread.

To Dracoknight - have fun with your character, everyone else can fly a kite.

Also, background skills cover the Craft (sculptures) and Perform (sing) for your later army of ice golems and musically gifted snowmen, assuming your GM uses Background Skills.

<grin>


I did Winter Oracle/Marid Sorceror for a PFS character.

A couple of points in favor of this combo:
- I can use divine and arcane items with no real need for UMD.
- Winter Oracle's Freezing Spells ability does not require a second save like the Rime-Blooded Arcana. You fail the spell's normal save, you get slowed automatically.
- Marid allows you to turn any energy spell into Cold, so you can get Cold Fireballs, Cold Lightning Bolts, etc. For this reason, I actually tend to choose non-cold spells, so now I have two options on how to cast it. Find a cold-resistant enemy? Use normal Burning Hands.
- Divine Orisons + Arcane Cantrips = Lots of at will stuff to offset taking the hit in spell level early on.
- Some of the Winter Revelations don't rely on Oracle level much, so you can go Winter Oracle 1/Marid Sorc X. Use feats to pick up more revelations if needed.

Things to note, however: Freezing Spells only applies to spells with saves, so it won't work with Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray. Also, I originally wanted to Xblood Marid with Boreal, but this hit to spells was too great. Boreal is the nicer bloodline, but doesn't allow for the conversion to cold.


*lots of bullshit that was already fixed and doesnt matter*

Also, we do have background skills, and... i think for the better of my sanity and the sanity of my group i will stay way from frozen references... i think we have heard enough of that already.

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