What a New PFS Player Should Know


Pathfinder Society

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Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5 **

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So, I've had to go over this several times when talking to new PFS players, and so I thought I'd post it here. Note: this is from my own personal experience, so if you disagree, please do so POLITELY and CALMLY in the comments.

Playing PFS, I have come across what I refer to as 'The pathfinder society fallacy.' It is somewhat derogatory, I admit, but that's because of how it affect the players. If you want to rename it, that's fine.

PFS scenarios were built from a philosophy that is a bit off-kilter from normal home games and normal modules. Most PFS scenarios make certain assumptions about players that may or may not be true. If these assumptions about players are not true, it can lead to some very unfun times for under-prepared or differently-oriented players. I'm going to try to put my thoughts into words on this matter, so that new players don't get blindsided by 'gotcha' tactics or by scenarios that just make the game unfun for players who weren't 'in' on the information.

1) The tenants of pathfinder society are Explore, Report, CO-OPERATE! It is assumed that players will share the knowledge that they have, and help out fellow pathfinders. If you want to make a cool loner dude, that's fine, but PFS assumes that you will tell the other players if your character makes the appropriate knowledge check on that death slime over there. Sneaking off and stealing something is probably going to get you killed, and it won't help you in the long run (as you have to turn in everything at the end of a scenario) so think about that when generating characters. Making characters that deliberately withhold information or steal or cause party strife may be fun in a home game where that kind of intrigue can have repercussions down the line, but in PFS, with different players every session, it's only going to earn you ire.

2) Don't dismiss skills. Okay, we've all, at one point or another, wanted to make Krunk, the 1/2 orc barbarian with 7 int and nothing but ranks in intimidate. Well, there are several Krunks in PFS, and they end up sitting on their hands for the most part, as most of them don't have anything to do outside of combat. Skills such as perception, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(Planes), Linguistics, and diplomacy come up quite often. Just think about it.

3) Gear
PFS assumes that all players will have similar load-outs when it comes to equipment. Unfortunately, this list isn't (officially) written down anywhere, so there is a very good chance that a new player can get caught in a situation where they can't do anything. And if all players are new, well, it might just cause a TPK or people to abandon a mission. This can be very frustrating because, basically, the rules can just bone you over and there is nothing you can do about it. Here is a list of stuff you should have on you:

Level 1)

A) Both a melee and a ranged weapon: Even if you are a primary spellcaster or a guy with seven dex (or strength) just having a melee or ranged weapon can be a big help. In a bad situation, a wizard with a quarterstaff can still provide flanking, allowing the rogue to sneak-attack. Even a big barbarian might need to hit a flying enemy at level 1.

B) As soon as you have 2 prestige, it is considered a courtesy to grab yourself a wand of cure light wounds, even if you can't use it. Chances are, someone in your party can, and not draining other players' resources to heal you is considered polite. Remember, there isn't going to be a level 4 Kyra with a full wand of CLW (and channels) in every party.

C) As soon as you can, grab a couple vials of Alchemist's fire, Acid, and Holy water. Holy water can deal damage to incorporeal undead (if you sprinkle it on them while adjacent) and deals full damage (ignoring DR and energy resistance) to evil outsiders. Alchemist's fire and acid are basically required to fight swarms, unless you have a swarmbane clasp, which is pricy at low levels. Plus, fire and acid repress most forms of regeneration (like trolls). After a few levels, getting a few Alkalai flasks, liquid ice, and bottled lightning would not go amiss, as having ways of dealing different energy damage (that ignores SR) is always good.

Level 2 ish

A) Oil of Bless weapon: This 50 GP oil is by far the most useful thing at low levels. Applying it to your weapon makes that weapon good-aligned, and counts as magic against evil outsiders. This means that you can hit and bypass DR of a good number of the evil outsiders you fight at low levels. It also lets you hit shades, most ghosts (the evil ones) and other incorporeal creatures for 1/2 dmg, instead of just being 100% useless. Did I mention it also lets you auto-confirm critical hits? Only lasts a minute, and it takes a full round to get ready (move to pull out, standard to apply) but better to have it and not need it . . .

B) Cloak of resistance. There are a lot of 'save or suck' (or just save or die) spells out there, and PFS will throw some of them at you. Hold person, Confusion, Dominate person, phantasmal killer, those are all spells that will make your day real bad real fast if you fail a save. No one likes it when control of their character is just taken away, and they basically can go take a bathroom break while the GM and the rest of the party have fun. Upping your saves is a way to prevent that from happening. It sucks that other cloaks aren't even an option, but unless you are a chained monk or a paladin, the cloak of resistance is your best friend.

C) Alchemical remedies. Antiplague, Antitoxin, bottled sunlight, and the like are all pretty useful. Unless you are immune to poison (like a high-level druid) or disease (like a paladin) pick up a few antiplagues and antitoxins. Even if you have an astounding fort save, you can still roll a 1, and these let you reroll a save as soon as you drink them. Believe me, I've seen characters almost die because the monster was killed, but the CON damage poison kept ticking away. To a lesser degree is bottled sunlight, which (if used properly by two different characters) can outright kill vampires and can (according to some GM interpretations) banish deeper darkness for a while.

Level 5)
A) Way of flying. I found this one out the hard way. Sometimes you just need to fly. Maybe there is a flying enemy mage raining death down on you, maybe there is a chasm of death that you need to cross and no one has the right skill? The simplest thing to do is spend 750 GP for a potion of flying. Other options include boots that allow flight, having the spell prepared, or even celestial armor.

B) IF DIVINE A common thing to do when reaching level 5 is to get a wrist-sheath with a scroll of breath of life in it. This lets you run up to someone, whip out the scroll as a free action, and rez someone so long as they have died within the last round (six seconds). Some GMs don't allow scrolls in wrist-sheaths, at which case the prospect becomes less useful. I have heard of some characters getting scrolls and giving them to the party healer even if they can't use it themselves. Honestly, this one seems less required than the others, but it is still not a bad idea.

1/5

Not really sure what sorts of home games you've been playing in but after decades playing and running RPG's most everything above is applicable to all fantasy RPG's.

Let me specifically address the antisocial player phenomena. It is bad for the game. Anti social characters are fine but if the player has the character take actions, such as not sharing useful knowledge with the party, that are detrimental to the party it will cause strife. Nothing will get a player booted from my home game faster. We gather to play games to enjoy ourselves. If your version of fun is to screw over your "friends" on a regular and consistent basis then maybe you should find a Diplomacy game instead of an RPG.

4/5 *

You have some great points here, but the whole intro about the PFS "fallacy" doesn't really seem to be related to the bulk of your post. Obviously, every player's experiences will be different, but I would hardly say that players stealing from their own party is common in the home games I've played in.

PFS is a team game, and the players and GM are all on the same team. Without that understanding, I can understand why you had so much trouble with the campaign, but really, that is all there is to it.

Sovereign Court 1/5

It's a nice beginners post and adds in nicely to several others that have been made in the past on this subject, but doesn't need the word "fallacy" in the title with its negative connotations and it's puzzling why you chose to name a thread aimed at beginners this way.

Quite a lost opportunity to open up focusing on the positive with something like "How to do your part for your party as a beginning player" or what have you.

Scarab Sages

I don't have them saved, but many of the equipment suggestions are mirrored in Painlord's guide posts on these forums. I might just have to print those out for new players after... at least a level, or so, so I don't scare them away.

My other advice beyond mechanics and equipment: enjoy it! Don't stress too much. Enjoy it, talk to the NPCs, do something fun, etc. Just make sure your fun isn't at the rest of the table's expense.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5 **

GM Lamplighter wrote:

You have some great points here, but the whole intro about the PFS "fallacy" doesn't really seem to be related to the bulk of your post. Obviously, every player's experiences will be different, but I would hardly say that players stealing from their own party is common in the home games I've played in.

PFS is a team game, and the players and GM are all on the same team. Without that understanding, I can understand why you had so much trouble with the campaign, but really, that is all there is to it.

The fallacy, for me at least, is that the writers of some PFS scenarios ASSUME that all players have these items. The fallacy is on the part of the people who write the games.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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It isn't a fallacy when a campaign tells you what it expects (guide gives you the nitty gritty of what its about) and you choose to build your character for a different campaign.

If playing skulls and shackles, would you purposefully build a character (and keep building that way) that sucks at being a pirate? No, unless you want the same problems you suggest above.

So why would you choose to build a character that sucks at being a pathfinder? I mean its your choice, but please dont blame the campaign for your choice.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

All of the advice about items is just general Pathfinder commonsense that you learn the more you play (not just PFS, except for the 2 prestige cure wand). A good guide.

The exception is the cloak of resistance. I've got 12 characters and I've never bought a Cloak of Resistance. I've had characters die, but I've been lucky enough that none of them died due to a failed save (it's always an AC problem or a bad tactics problem or a bad luck problem). Lots of bad guys wear cloaks of resistance, so it can be easy loot for you when the popular opinion is that a Cloak of Resistance is a must-buy!

As far as anti-social play goes, my first character was a "comedy bard", and I roleplayed him in such a way that he'd get scared of certain battles and flee. This was a hilarious disaster in my first game, clearly detrimental to the party, a lesson I quickly had to learn. Fortunately he died a merciful but brutal death in The Darkest Vengeance, my second scenario.

There's always creative solutions that you'll need to fall back on as a Pathfinder. Later down the track, you'll need to be able to adapt with your team very quickly.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5 **

Andrew Christian wrote:

It isn't a fallacy when a campaign tells you what it expects (guide gives you the nitty gritty of what its about) and you choose to build your character for a different campaign.

If playing skulls and shackles, would you purposefully build a character (and keep building that way) that sucks at being a pirate? No, unless you want the same problems you suggest above.

So why would you choose to build a character that sucks at being a pathfinder? I mean its your choice, but please dont blame the campaign for your choice.

It's not about building to the campaign, it's about what you expect vs. what the scenario writers expect you to expect.

Let me put it another way:

Me: Wanna play PFS? It's a campaign where you play pathfinders, basically Iniana-Jones style archaeologists that delve into political intrigue to get funding, and ancient booby-trapped tombs to find lost relics of historic significance.

New guy: Cool! I'll build a fighter, basically a tough guy to bodyguard all of the archaeologists. I'll get a trait to get knowledge (history), stuff I've learned while bodyguarding the bigwigs!

FIRST SESSION:

Gm: Okay, you find some scorpions. You don't have alchemist's fire or acid. you can't hurt swarms.

New Guy: I didn't even know swarms were a thing!

GM: Okay, well, you sit there and do nothing while your party fights them off with alchemist's fire and acid.

New Guy: Well, THIS is fun . . . I'm gonna go take a smoke break, tell me when I can do stuff again.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I don't know the exact number, but there are quite a few authors and contributors that help develop and edit scenarios.

It's not some secret illuminati of conspiring agents that meet to discuss their assumptions. It's Joe and Eric and 60 other individual authors that want to get their story published.

Also, that Fighter that can't hurt swarms can rely on the team they're a part of to help out, just like the Rogue will have to rely on the Fighter to kill the Elemental and the Wizard will have to rely on the Rogue to disarm the trap. You can't be useful on your own 100% of the time, but you can work as part of team.

I also disagree that the word "fallacy" was properly used.

Dark Archive *

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one of my fave aspects of the wounded wisp evergreen is the NPCs you talk to in the bar that reinforce many of the complaints in this thread. there's a reason it and confirmation are meant as an introduction. they flat out tell you "y'know, you really should have an acid flask" and "maybe you shouldn't just wantonly kill EVERYONE you come across"

as a GM, if I hear I have new players I try to ask about their characters and make simple suggestions. "you have 23 gold left? buy an alchemist's fire. trust me." it doesn't always work, but I've found new players are pretty receptive to input and suggestions. I'm not talking full blown audit, just a few basics about their character.

I've even been known to give new, especially young, players an out....
"there's a bad guy thirty feet out of your reach, what do you do?"
"I can't do anything."
"you have a sling, right?"
"no?"
"you have a sling, RIGHT? they're free."
"uhh, I use my sling?"
"there ya go!"

granted, I had one kid that didn't get the point after me telling him three times he could have picked up a sling at any point, but adamantly refused to. he died. I felt no sympathy for him. the other new kids at the table learned from his mistake at least.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

VampByDay wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

It isn't a fallacy when a campaign tells you what it expects (guide gives you the nitty gritty of what its about) and you choose to build your character for a different campaign.

If playing skulls and shackles, would you purposefully build a character (and keep building that way) that sucks at being a pirate? No, unless you want the same problems you suggest above.

So why would you choose to build a character that sucks at being a pathfinder? I mean its your choice, but please dont blame the campaign for your choice.

It's not about building to the campaign, it's about what you expect vs. what the scenario writers expect you to expect.

Let me put it another way:

Me: Wanna play PFS? It's a campaign where you play pathfinders, basically Iniana-Jones style archaeologists that delve into political intrigue to get funding, and ancient booby-trapped tombs to find lost relics of historic significance.

New guy: Cool! I'll build a fighter, basically a tough guy to bodyguard all of the archaeologists. I'll get a trait to get knowledge (history), stuff I've learned while bodyguarding the bigwigs!

FIRST SESSION:

Gm: Okay, you find some scorpions. You don't have alchemist's fire or acid. you can't hurt swarms.

New Guy: I didn't even know swarms were a thing!

GM: Okay, well, you sit there and do nothing while your party fights them off with alchemist's fire and acid.

New Guy: Well, THIS is fun . . . I'm gonna go take a smoke break, tell me when I can do stuff again.

Sure, a brand new player may not know about swarms, which is why it's up to the GM to not be an asshat himself. Let them be creative and try interesting ideas that may not have any rules for them. I mean if I light 10' tarp on fire and toss it on a swarm, that's likely going to do standard fire damage to a swarm. My wife tried this once with a bed sheet, and the GM let it work. She then bought a 10' piece of canvas so she'd be prepared. I blew a door off its hinges and there was a swarm and a fire in the house. He let me purposefully take swarm damage to use the door as an area shovel to put the swarm in the fire.

The point is, as a GM, you should let new players try creativity to solve problems they had no way to be prepared for. But putting a swarm in a scenario in no way is the writers fault for a GM fail like you describe above.

The Exchange 4/5

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Hmm I always thought it was you don't need to build a super optimized killing machine that can solo an entire scenario.

Silver Crusade 3/5

The only thing I will add. When building a character pick a focus for in combat actions. It can be combat, or spells. General characters will work up to level 5. After that it starts to become a problem for them. Your focus ability score should be at least 16. Higher is better but not required.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

calagnar wrote:
The only thing I will add. When building a character pick a focus for in combat actions. It can be combat, or spells. General characters will work up to level 5. After that it starts to become a problem for them. Your focus ability score should be at least 16. Higher is better but not required.

I disagree. I have several successful versatile builds. Many of which are 14+.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
VampByDay wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

It isn't a fallacy when a campaign tells you what it expects (guide gives you the nitty gritty of what its about) and you choose to build your character for a different campaign.

If playing skulls and shackles, would you purposefully build a character (and keep building that way) that sucks at being a pirate? No, unless you want the same problems you suggest above.

So why would you choose to build a character that sucks at being a pathfinder? I mean its your choice, but please dont blame the campaign for your choice.

It's not about building to the campaign, it's about what you expect vs. what the scenario writers expect you to expect.

Let me put it another way:

Me: Wanna play PFS? It's a campaign where you play pathfinders, basically Iniana-Jones style archaeologists that delve into political intrigue to get funding, and ancient booby-trapped tombs to find lost relics of historic significance.

New guy: Cool! I'll build a fighter, basically a tough guy to bodyguard all of the archaeologists. I'll get a trait to get knowledge (history), stuff I've learned while bodyguarding the bigwigs!

FIRST SESSION:

Gm: Okay, you find some scorpions. You don't have alchemist's fire or acid. you can't hurt swarms.

New Guy: I didn't even know swarms were a thing!

GM: Okay, well, you sit there and do nothing while your party fights them off with alchemist's fire and acid.

New Guy: Well, THIS is fun . . . I'm gonna go take a smoke break, tell me when I can do stuff again.

Smarter New Guy who isn't a waste of space: "I ready an action to toss an alchemist fire when Old Veteran Player passes me a couple." Which is something Veteran Player may very well do because he's either practised in cooperatin and/or realises that Smarter New Guy's character may have a better throwing arm.

4/5 *

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VampByDay wrote:

Me: Wanna play PFS? It's a campaign where you play pathfinders, basically Iniana-Jones style archaeologists that delve into political intrigue to get funding, and ancient booby-trapped tombs to find lost relics of historic significance.

New guy: Cool! I'll build a fighter, basically a tough guy to bodyguard all of the archaeologists. I'll get a trait to get knowledge (history), stuff I've learned while bodyguarding the bigwigs!

So why wasn't the next thing "ME" said something like, "Well, the campaign is based on versatility, and you often run into things like traps or swarms or other threats that can't just be bashed with a club. There are some really cool options and gear in the Core Rulebook you should check out." Don't blame the authour for a conversation "ME" started but didn't finish.

Quote:
Gm: Okay, you find some scorpions. You don't have alchemist's fire or acid. you can't hurt swarms.

Yep, sometimes you run into an encounter you aren't 100% prepared for, and then you learn from it. This is actually part of the game, not a problem with the game.

4/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
calagnar wrote:
The only thing I will add. When building a character pick a focus for in combat actions. It can be combat, or spells. General characters will work up to level 5. After that it starts to become a problem for them. Your focus ability score should be at least 16. Higher is better but not required.
I disagree. I have several successful versatile builds. Many of which are 14+.

You may have many successful versatile builds with a 14, but having a 16 is better.

There is no arguing that.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Having a 16, rather than a 14, means something else had to be penalized.

And if it was a point buy, sometimes the +3 mod you'd get from having a 16 means having +2 less in your other ability scores combined.

4/5

Nefreet wrote:

Having a 16, rather than a 14, means something else had to be penalized.

And if it was a point buy, sometimes the +3 mod you'd get from having a 16 means having +2 less in your other ability scores combined.

While that is true, having a 16 in your primary stat is better than having a 14 in your primary stat.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Mulgar wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
calagnar wrote:
The only thing I will add. When building a character pick a focus for in combat actions. It can be combat, or spells. General characters will work up to level 5. After that it starts to become a problem for them. Your focus ability score should be at least 16. Higher is better but not required.
I disagree. I have several successful versatile builds. Many of which are 14+.

You may have many successful versatile builds with a 14, but having a 16 is better.

There is no arguing that.

I'm talking level 14. I rarely only have a stat at 14. But then I also don't tend to drop stats below 10 a bunch either.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Mulgar wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

Having a 16, rather than a 14, means something else had to be penalized.

And if it was a point buy, sometimes the +3 mod you'd get from having a 16 means having +2 less in your other ability scores combined.

While that is true, having a 16 in your primary stat is better than having a 14 in your primary stat.

It is better for your primary stat and your primary ability.

But it is not necessarily better for your character or for PFS. That being said, I usually have at least one skill at 16. But If I do have one skill below 10, I rarely exploit the high skill so much that the low skill severely hampers me. I usually will spend significant resources to overcome the weakness.

That's what versatility is. You try to balance your character out to be good at multiple things. And there are many ways of accomplishing that from a balanced set of stats to diverse stats with balancing gear or class abilities, etc.

But a blanket statement that a 16 is better than a 14 does not really discuss all the variables that character will be subjected to. Sometimes, having 4 stats at 14 and two at 10 will be better than having one at 16, two at 14, and 3 at 10. (those arrays assume no racial bonuses).

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Mulgar wrote:
While that is true, having a 16 in your primary stat is better than having a 14 in your primary stat.

Having 18 is better, even. 20, better still. 22, even better.

So?

5/5 5/55/55/5

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I was expecting...

-Being PFS dm means you're stuck with a slavish devotion to raw.

-I'm reading raw to provide this absurd mechanical advantage so you're stuck with it

-PFS is a uniform experience

-PFS dms have access to a set of rules that will end table variation.

-PFS means the adventure is stuck on railroad tracks.

-there's some sort of a qualification to be a pfs dm (Pffth. How do you think i got in?)

-If there's no stats in the mod for it you can't interact with it.

1/5

Avatar-1 wrote:

The exception is the cloak of resistance. I've got 12 characters and I've never bought a Cloak of Resistance. I've had characters die, but I've been lucky enough that none of them died due to a failed save (it's always an AC problem or a bad tactics problem or a bad luck problem). Lots of bad guys wear cloaks of resistance, so it can be easy loot for you when the popular opinion is that a Cloak of Resistance is a must-buy!

Sooner or later, my money is on sooner, your unboosted saves will get one of your characters. I'm not a huge fan of the cloak being the primary save boosting magic item but that is the way it is.

Both as a PFS player and GM I see players without cloaks burning rerolls on what they think are failed saves far more than on anything else. The +2 cloak at only 4k is one of the best buys at mid levels you can make.

1/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
VampByDay wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

It isn't a fallacy when a campaign tells you what it expects (guide gives you the nitty gritty of what its about) and you choose to build your character for a different campaign.

If playing skulls and shackles, would you purposefully build a character (and keep building that way) that sucks at being a pirate? No, unless you want the same problems you suggest above.

So why would you choose to build a character that sucks at being a pathfinder? I mean its your choice, but please dont blame the campaign for your choice.

It's not about building to the campaign, it's about what you expect vs. what the scenario writers expect you to expect.

Let me put it another way:

Me: Wanna play PFS? It's a campaign where you play pathfinders, basically Iniana-Jones style archaeologists that delve into political intrigue to get funding, and ancient booby-trapped tombs to find lost relics of historic significance.

New guy: Cool! I'll build a fighter, basically a tough guy to bodyguard all of the archaeologists. I'll get a trait to get knowledge (history), stuff I've learned while bodyguarding the bigwigs!

FIRST SESSION:

Gm: Okay, you find some scorpions. You don't have alchemist's fire or acid. you can't hurt swarms.

New Guy: I didn't even know swarms were a thing!

GM: Okay, well, you sit there and do nothing while your party fights them off with alchemist's fire and acid.

New Guy: Well, THIS is fun . . . I'm gonna go take a smoke break, tell me when I can do stuff again.

When a new player shows up at our local store we do our best to help him build a functional character and that includes buying gear appropriate for his first scenario. If he then needs an alchemists fire or healing during the scenario someone is usually quite willing to give it to him since it is his first time. I really have to wonder about places where that isn't how things are done.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Avatar-1 wrote:


The exception is the cloak of resistance. I've got 12 characters and I've never bought a Cloak of Resistance.

And this is why the collar of obedience went from an occasional use item to a good buy.

Here fighter fighter fighter...

1/5

Flutter wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:


The exception is the cloak of resistance. I've got 12 characters and I've never bought a Cloak of Resistance.

And this is why the collar of obedience went from an occasional use item to a good buy.

Here fighter fighter fighter...

Shhh!

Silver Crusade 3/5

Flutter wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:


The exception is the cloak of resistance. I've got 12 characters and I've never bought a Cloak of Resistance.

And this is why the collar of obedience went from an occasional use item to a good buy.

Here fighter fighter fighter...

I think I might need one of those.

I'm 10th level, and my Will saves are +1

Silver Crusade

Flutter wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:


The exception is the cloak of resistance. I've got 12 characters and I've never bought a Cloak of Resistance.

And this is why the collar of obedience went from an occasional use item to a good buy.

Here fighter fighter fighter...

I don't know what the big problem is....*fails save vs Confusion*

What?!?...*gets "attack nearest person*
I'm so sorry Mr. Wizard *rolls 20 with greataxe, confirms with a 19*
I'm really sorry....you're still alive right?

Shadow Lodge 3/5

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You say sooner rather than later, but 12 characters later and that just hasn't been the case yet. I've been playing PFS for years now; over half of those characters are high level now, two seekers.

I've been killed by deeper darkness, by trample, by a lance wielding maniac on horseback, by overwhelming attacks of opportunity, by being dropped below 0 in the surprise round and by being eaten alive on the floor... but never by a failed save.

I don't even really have a go-to item to replace it, except for maybe a Cloak of the Mountebank (1/day dimension door, yes please!). But if I don't have a shoulder item yet, I can be confident the next bad guy will have a cloak of resistance that nobody else will want.

4/5 *

Cloaks of resistance are the second most common item found on the enemy (after potions of CLW). You can almost certainly pick one up early in an adventure and just wear it the rest of the game, for free. Yes, you might get caught out...

1/5

Avatar-1 wrote:

You say sooner rather than later, but 12 characters later and that just hasn't been the case yet. I've been playing PFS for years now; over half of those characters are high level now, two seekers.

I've been killed by deeper darkness, by trample, by a lance wielding maniac on horseback, by overwhelming attacks of opportunity, by being dropped below 0 in the surprise round and by being eaten alive on the floor... but never by a failed save.

I don't even really have a go-to item to replace it, except for maybe a Cloak of the Mountebank (1/day dimension door, yes please!). But if I don't have a shoulder item yet, I can be confident the next bad guy will have a cloak of resistance that nobody else will want.

Then stop risking it. You keep insisting that you have never lost a character to a save. That is simply a matter of luck. The effects are certainly out there. And looting cloaks is unreliable since they will rarely be good cloaks. Ad keep in mind the worst thing that can happen is not you losing a character but rampaging through your party and killing several of them.

This is like the guy locally who refuses to use his prestige to get a healing wand for "rp" reasons and expects everyone else to heal him. 99% of the time it won't be a problem but eventually...

1/5

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Raising the dead for a good cause. Paladins and like minded individuals close your eyes.

Oldies but still very good advice.

Painlords What To Expect at a PFS Table

Painlords Thoughts on How to Become a Better Player


GM Lamplighter wrote:
VampByDay wrote:

Me: Wanna play PFS? It's a campaign where you play pathfinders, basically Iniana-Jones style archaeologists that delve into political intrigue to get funding, and ancient booby-trapped tombs to find lost relics of historic significance.

New guy: Cool! I'll build a fighter, basically a tough guy to bodyguard all of the archaeologists. I'll get a trait to get knowledge (history), stuff I've learned while bodyguarding the bigwigs!

So why wasn't the next thing "ME" said something like, "Well, the campaign is based on versatility, and you often run into things like traps or swarms or other threats that can't just be bashed with a club. There are some really cool options and gear in the Core Rulebook you should check out." Don't blame the authour for a conversation "ME" started but didn't finish.

Quote:
Gm: Okay, you find some scorpions. You don't have alchemist's fire or acid. you can't hurt swarms.

Yep, sometimes you run into an encounter you aren't 100% prepared for, and then you learn from it. This is actually part of the game, not a problem with the game.

"ME" did finish it, it's the OP of this very thread.

Scarab Sages 5/5

GM Lamplighter wrote:


Yep, sometimes you run into an encounter you aren't 100% prepared for, and then you learn from it. This is actually part of the game, not a problem with the game.

Part of the problem of Pathfinder Society is that you are not allowed to learn from your experiences. If in Game A you learned about how to affect a swarm of spiders, you might not be allowed to remember that knowledge for Game B unless someone again makes a knowledge check.

The ranged weapon statement needs to be made for higher levels as well. I have played more than a few 5-7 level groups of people where none of the fighting types had a range weapon. Not having a ranged weapon has gotten so bad in low level parties that some of my characters that didn't dump strength carry a chakram or two in case the front liners need it (they are cheap and have a decent damage).

A few month ago I played with a melee character player (a 4th level character) who had never bought a cure wand - it wasn't his role to heal himself if people wanted him to fight they had to heal him.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Quote:
Part of the problem of Pathfinder Society is that you are not allowed to learn from your experiences. If in Game A you learned about how to affect a swarm of spiders, you might not be allowed to remember that knowledge for Game B unless someone again makes a knowledge check.

This is table variation. As a GM, if a character has faced a monster before, or a type of thing like a swarm before, I allow the character to remember what they knew from their previous encounter.

Also, for swarms, I don't require knowledge checks for them to know that area effects are what's going to affect it. Just look at 'em: you can tell that taking individuals out from the swarm isn't going to do anything. It's (in-game, for your characters) common sense.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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Dhjika wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:


Yep, sometimes you run into an encounter you aren't 100% prepared for, and then you learn from it. This is actually part of the game, not a problem with the game.

Part of the problem of Pathfinder Society is that you are not allowed to learn from your experiences. If in Game A you learned about how to affect a swarm of spiders, you might not be allowed to remember that knowledge for Game B unless someone again makes a knowledge check.

Eh, that's more or less hogwash. If I played a scenario with a character that met a swarm, I'm pulling out my alchemists fire the next time I run into a swarm.

I'll go so far as to say, that the society teaches what a swarm is and generally how to defeat them. Like Janira Gavix in The Confirmation.

1/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
Dhjika wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:


Yep, sometimes you run into an encounter you aren't 100% prepared for, and then you learn from it. This is actually part of the game, not a problem with the game.

Part of the problem of Pathfinder Society is that you are not allowed to learn from your experiences. If in Game A you learned about how to affect a swarm of spiders, you might not be allowed to remember that knowledge for Game B unless someone again makes a knowledge check.

Eh, that's more or less hogwash. If I played a scenario with a character that met a swarm, I'm pulling out my alchemists fire the next time I run into a swarm.

I'll go so far as to say, that the society teaches what a swarm is and generally how to defeat them. Like Janira Gavix in The Confirmation.

Why do people think alchemist fire are even for sale. I assume knowledge of swarms and how to deal with them is common knowledge.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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One often looked tactic for dealing with swarms is simply to outrun them. I recently went through the confirmation and watched the party burn through half of their wealth on a swarm they could have just run away from. Its not like you're going to find diamonds in whats left of some BBQ'd mosquitos.

4/5

Dhjika wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:


Yep, sometimes you run into an encounter you aren't 100% prepared for, and then you learn from it. This is actually part of the game, not a problem with the game.

Part of the problem of Pathfinder Society is that you are not allowed to learn from your experiences. If in Game A you learned about how to affect a swarm of spiders, you might not be allowed to remember that knowledge for Game B unless someone again makes a knowledge check.

The ranged weapon statement needs to be made for higher levels as well. I have played more than a few 5-7 level groups of people where none of the fighting types had a range weapon. Not having a ranged weapon has gotten so bad in low level parties that some of my characters that didn't dump strength carry a chakram or two in case the front liners need it (they are cheap and have a decent damage).

A few month ago I played with a melee character player (a 4th level character) who had never bought a cure wand - it wasn't his role to heal himself if people wanted him to fight they had to heal him.

Walk away and let him die. You sacrifice a scenario but what better way to teach him? And yes I have done this.

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tell him you're taking off your loincloth and handing it to him with a bag of rocks. Congratulations, he has a sling.

They will be scarred for life. And never. EVER forget to get a ranged weapon again.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

=\

1/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

One often looked tactic for dealing with swarms is simply to outrun them. I recently went through the confirmation and watched the party burn through half of their wealth on a swarm they could have just run away from. Its not like you're going to find diamonds in whats left of some BBQ'd mosquitos.

So many players just forget that they can run away! I have been at tables were we came to a spot in the scenario that was difficult and close to a TPK, and I mentioned running away to regroup. Everyone looks at me like I am crazy. Your character has a 4x / 3x movement speed for a reason, it's survival.

Another option that people forget all the time is that a lot of these scenarios take place in or near large towns. If you come across a swarm and are not on some kind of time limit, go back to town and buy stuff.

Dark Archive

Mulgar wrote:
Walk away and let him die. You sacrifice a scenario but what better way to teach him? And yes I have done this.

Was this a frequent problem with the same player? Seems a bit excessive unless it's someone who does it repeatedly.

2/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
One often looked tactic for dealing with swarms is simply to outrun them.

Confirmed. We've run away from the last 9/10 swarms I've encountered in PFS. Sometimes this was just a cost evaluation (i.e. why would we bother wasting all these alchemist fires on a hard-to-hit swarm that deals ability score damage every turn we fail to kill it).

Yeah... swarms are scary. Even the most minor ones can kill a low level character and/or deal out disease effects that cost resources to remove. No shame in running!

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