How big is a 25,000 gold Diamond?


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So one of my players wants to cast Wish, but you need a 25,000 Gold diamond. How big is this thing?


Azure Falcon wrote:
So one of my players wants to cast Wish, but you need a 25,000 Gold diamond. How big is this thing?

Somewhere between a grain of sand and a breadbox.

It is really hard to say. Gem value is based not only on size, but cut and clarity. A 25,000gp uncut flawed diamond would be larger than a 25,000gp flawless diamond with a magnificent cut.

As far as the game is concerned, gems are weightless. So not very big.


Jeraa wrote:
Azure Falcon wrote:
So one of my players wants to cast Wish, but you need a 25,000 Gold diamond. How big is this thing?

Somewhere between a grain of sand and a breadbox.

It is really hard to say. Gem value is based not only on size, but cut and clarity. A 25,000gp uncut flawed diamond would be larger than a 25,000gp flawless diamond with a magnificent cut.

As far as the game is concerned, gems are weightless. So not very big.

Okay, thank you for clarifying.

I was picturing a crappy uncut one, because he's trying to order one into the town.


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Azure Falcon wrote:
So one of my players wants to cast Wish, but you need a 25,000 Gold diamond. How big is this thing?

I agree with Jeraa, it depends on the gem. I would say that it depends on how well the gem is cut. You can consider it a ceremonial offering for the spell. The size of the gem itself isn't as important as it being properly prepared. A smaller stone that is flawlessly cut and worked on is actually better than a raw gem of ten times the size, exactly because it was prepared just right.

In the game, this means your character have several options - either look up a master jeweller, or make a visit to a huge trading metropolis (i.e. the City of Brass) or even to the sort of place where huge uncut diamonds can be found (i.e. the elemental plane of Earth). Basically, you can make a whole sidequest out of it. If it is done right, it would be the kind of detail players will remember fondly (hey, remember that time you won a heart-sized diamond for armwrestling an efreet?).

Of course, if one of the players just happens to have a fair few ranks in craft (gemcutting) or the like, well, time to give them something for it. In that case, your work essentially goes to improving the gem and making it more suitable for the spell. It isn't just the cut, it could be fancy stuff like inscribing runes on the gemstone, putting it in a mithral frame, and all that.


i'm with the shaman here--getting such a pristine cut gem would likely take some effort, and going out and physically finding raw diamond the size of one's head might lead to some 'heart of the mountain' stuff--people jealously guarding it, trying to steal it, etc. because if such a large diamond were to be properly polished and cut, it's value would skyrocket (especially if it was a 25k raw diamond just from sheer size/clarity--dragons would be on you like stink on zombies).


Carat weight is what I generally go with. Presuming the diamond is comparatively middle-of-the-road as diamonds go, it weighs in at 25 carats cut weight. 344 carat weight per round, 0.0727 lb - a bit over an ounce (1.162oz) or ~5 grams.


Azure Falcon wrote:

Okay, thank you for clarifying.

I was picturing a crappy uncut one, because he's trying to order one into the town.

Also remember that at level of value, if you find a RAW gem worth 25,000 gold the people who mine such things will make it a prime goal to get that stone properly cut. Anything of that value at raw state will have he chance to make 2-12 more gems, each possibly of equal or higher value to the original stone.

A freshly dug stone of that gold value means the color, quality etc is so superior that cutting it would make it massively more valuable.

Used to work for a gemcutter and it is amazing how much more valuable properly cut stones are compared to what you start with.

If the character is trying to buy a 25,000 GP gem it is extremely more than likely it will already be cut.


Hmn, it kind of depends on scarcity.

Diamonds on Earth are only highly valuable due to the De Beers cartel which maintains a monopoly over them and restricts their availability. This wasn't always the case, however. Before diamond mines were discovered, they were genuinely fairly rare.

Anyway, history lessons aside, hunks of rock only have as much value as what people are willing to pay for them. So it's really hard to give a definitive answer on how large a 25,000gp diamond is.


Gilfalas wrote:


Also remember that at level of value, if you find a RAW gem worth 25,000 gold the people who mine such things will make it a prime goal to get that stone properly cut. Anything of that value at raw state will have he chance to make 2-12 more gems, each possibly of equal or higher value to the original stone.

A freshly dug stone of that gold value means the color, quality etc is so superior that cutting it would make it massively more valuable.

Used to work for a gemcutter and it is amazing how much more valuable properly cut stones are compared to what you start with.

If the character is trying to buy a 25,000 GP gem it is extremely more than likely it will already be cut.

I think that in these settings most gem dealers are aware that raw diamonds are used as material components for powerful magics like resurrection or wish


Entryhazard wrote:


I think that in these settings most gem dealers are aware that raw diamonds are used as material components for powerful magics like resurrection or wish

It is kind of funny that the price of diamond is fixed by how much it takes to bring back the dead. (And that bringing back the dead is worth, by the will of the gods, 100 pounds of gold).


Depends - if we're talking reincarnation, that's only 20 pounds of gold. ;)


Entryhazard wrote:
I think that in these settings most gem dealers are aware that raw diamonds are used as material components for powerful magics like resurrection or wish

I would agree they would know diamonds are powerful gem components but nowhere in the spells does it saw 'raw'.

And if a gem dealer can get 25K for a raw gem or perhaps 300+ K for that raw gem cut and made into more gems I can guarantee you what that gem dealer will do.

In any case, raw or cut, even the most valuable gem stones in the world will fit into your hand for the most part.


Jeraa wrote:
Azure Falcon wrote:
So one of my players wants to cast Wish, but you need a 25,000 Gold diamond. How big is this thing?

Somewhere between a grain of sand and a breadbox.

It is really hard to say. Gem value is based not only on size, but cut and clarity. A 25,000gp uncut flawed diamond would be larger than a 25,000gp flawless diamond with a magnificent cut.

As far as the game is concerned, gems are weightless. So not very big.

Also, different diamond types can easily change the value.

Example for purple diamonds


The easy answer is, don't sweat this stuff or the existence of other expensive material components and just allow you players to convert the correct amount of gold to exactly whatever they need for the spell.

Everything else...just takes too much effort to worry about it my opinion.


I wonder if Fabricate or similar spells can be used to merge several diamonds in a bigger one


Diamonds are overpriced in the real world, there is a near monopoly that keeps them that way.


Turin the Mad wrote:
Depends - if we're talking reincarnation, that's only 20 pounds of gold. ;)

But then with reincarnate you may come back as a dirty bugbear. Or worse, a kobold!


I always liked to think it was tiny - smaller than the tip of your pinky - but flawless and perfectly cut. Mostly out of cool factor, not because of any real-world diamond experience.

The Exchange

Also the more times people cast wish and sacrifice a diamond the scarcer diamonds get. Therefore one that sold for 23,000 last month may be worth 25,000 now.

Spoiler:
Don't really implement this. I can see some players trying to manipulate markets by using up diamonds


It is the Price of the Stone that decides if it is big enough so just let one of your friends sell you Crappy diamond for 25000 gp:)


Entryhazard wrote:
I wonder if Fabricate or similar spells can be used to merge several diamonds in a bigger one

if you can do it with a craft skill you can do it with Fabricate. For this you will need Craft( model builder) and some glue. And you wont like the result:)


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Cap. Darling wrote:
It is the Price of the Stone that decides if it is big enough so just let one of your friends sell you Crappy diamond for 25000 gp:)

Apprentice: "Master I got that diamond you wanted and I managed to get you a 20% discount, it only cost 20,000gp"

MasterMage:"..."


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Damn first level apprentices, they can never get this right. I keep telling them to just buy a diamond for 25,000 gp. And they always come back with one costing less thinking they've made a deal. But they don't bloody work! It's like the universe knows. Damn sentient universes. And those bloody jewelers. They know every time an apprentice comes in. They do this on purpose just to mess with me, because they know I'll have to come in and buy another diamond for 25,000 gold. Arseh*les.


Do not make your players go on a side quest or spend too much in game time looking for ever the rarest of spell components. No party member, save the arcane caster, is going to say, wow thanks for that side quest so the wizard could get +1 to his INT. I don't even think the wizard will thank you. Quests for specific items for members of a party just serve to annoy other party members or annoy the party member searching for the item when the rest of the party says, "We don't have time to do this, we have a main quest."


Turin the Mad wrote:
Carat weight is what I generally go with. Presuming the diamond is comparatively middle-of-the-road as diamonds go, it weighs in at 25 carats cut weight. 344 carat weight per round, 0.0727 lb - a bit over an ounce (1.162oz) or ~5 grams.

Your math is flawed... there are 28.35 grams in an ounce, so 1.162 oz would be ~33 grams.


Gilfalas wrote:
Entryhazard wrote:
I think that in these settings most gem dealers are aware that raw diamonds are used as material components for powerful magics like resurrection or wish

I would agree they would know diamonds are powerful gem components but nowhere in the spells does it saw 'raw'.

And if a gem dealer can get 25K for a raw gem or perhaps 300+ K for that raw gem cut and made into more gems I can guarantee you what that gem dealer will do.

In any case, raw or cut, even the most valuable gem stones in the world will fit into your hand for the most part.

Well in game the merchant could change 25k in raw diamond to 75k in cut diamond.... but it would take years (based on the craft skill). Fabricate on the other hand....


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A Racially Insensitive Gnome wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Depends - if we're talking reincarnation, that's only 20 pounds of gold. ;)
But then with reincarnate you may come back as a dirty bugbear. Or worse, a kobold!

Hey! I resemble that remark!


Thank you all for your feedback. This is specifically a wish used to undo a misfortune because one of the party members reincarnated their fellow Elf into a Half-Orc.

I now see that there is not really a set rule for it, so I will have to decide in game how he will find the perfect diamond to return to his normal form, but I have made it ever so clear this will not be an easy task.

He wanted to pay the church 6,000 gold and work off his debt and they laughed at him because they were asking the church to front 19,000 gold for him. He then tried to go to my worlds big trading guild with the same amount of money, but he quickly found out that if he did that he'd lose the character to indentured servitude.

We shall see what happens next, but once again thank you all.


Well, there's a difference between "It'll take a quest to find a big enough diamond to buy, even though I've got the cash" and "It'll take a quest to find a big enough diamond when I don't have the money to buy one."

The first is a serious pain in many game styles (sandboxy ones may enjoy such excuses for quests). The second is pretty basic. The only real question is how long do you want to keep the player playing his character in a from he doesn't enjoy - assuming that's where the problem comes from.


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The real trick is to have your friend buy a cheap 100 gp diamond, but then sell it to you for 25,000 on the condition that he purchase a casting of the light cantrip from you for 24800 (he should make a profit too)


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Lets look at this as a metagame situation.

1. Presumably the player of the reincarnated character is unhappy. If he's actually happy playing a half-orc then he probably would have said so and nobody would be looking for a wish. So at least one player at the table is unhappy - this is ultimately very bad for that entire gaming group; one unhappy player will only get unhappier and louder about it until everyone is grumpy. Or he'll just quit playing with this group. Bad either way.

2. Long side quests and GM-created obstacles, no matter how plausible they seem from a simulationist perspective, come at a price: the unhappiness I mentioned in point #1 is protracted, causing the suffering player to become more unhappy and precipitating the inevitable ensuing problems. Ultimately the price for this GM-engineered verisimilitude can be too high; hopefully, no GM wants unhappy players or worse, quitting players.

3. Finding a simple solution, even better, an expedient solution, can and will diffuse the whole situation. Happy player, happy group, and the adventure resumes iwth its primary focus rather than the awkward side quests. Everybody wins.

Ergo, I suggest the GM in question might want to seriously consider point #3.

This can be achieved by a "good samaritan" offering to front the money in return for a favor. Or the PCs might rescue the familiar of a wizard who offers a reward. Or an efreet might wander through town, looking for some help. Or whatever.

On a final side note, if the characters do end up paying 25,000gp out of pocket, and given that they seem to be of fairly low level since they only have 6,000gp and are laughed at by wealthy temples (who rarely laugh at high level superheroes), this will be a HUGE blow to their WBL which will also create long-term problems for the players, so I suggest that if they do pay with their own gold, the GM might want to make some upcoming treasure hoards large enough to pay them back in bonus cash, above whatever the hoards really should have had. Maybe not instantly, but fairly soon, say, over the next dozen encounters or so.


Claxon wrote:
Damn first level apprentices, they can never get this right. I keep telling them to just buy a diamond for 25,000 gp. And they always come back with one costing less thinking they've made a deal. But they don't bloody work! It's like the universe knows. Damn sentient universes. And those bloody jewelers. They know every time an apprentice comes in. They do this on purpose just to mess with me, because they know I'll have to come in and buy another diamond for 25,000 gold. Arseh*les.

And

Dave Justus wrote:
The real trick is to have your friend buy a cheap 100 gp diamond, but then sell it to you for 25,000 on the condition that he purchase a casting of the light cantrip from you for 24800 (he should make a profit too)

Yeah, I just love how the game has things with real in-game value (can this diamond actually power this spell) that is based on cash paid for the item. Completely backward from how real economy works and, as demonstrated here, full of arbitrary loopholes.


...perhaps the diamond on its own would be worthless from real world jewelry standards. Maybe the diamond is only worth that much money because it has the right qualities as a spell component.

Maybe it only costs that much because every church, king, warlord, wizard, and petty noble are trying to hoard the things for their value as a magical component.

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The interesting thing in PF is that market price can only dictate a price ABOVE what a spell or magic item requires, not below.

GP Value is essentially fixed because you spend 1000 gp of gold in components to make magic items per day. It's basically a fixed amount.

It doesn't matter what you actually BUY them for. It's the fact they can substitute for 1000 gp.

Likewise, gems have fixed values.

It takes a 25k gp gem to use Resurrection. It might cost you 30k for that gem. It might cost 2k. But it has to be WORTH 25k to do the job, which means its worth 25k as a material component, which can be measured against other material components, etc.

So in the PF world, gold and gems are actually known and fixed values.

It's everything ELSE which is variable. Basically, everything is being measured in its value as a component in magic item construction or in spells, subbing for gold and gems.

-------
As a flip side, a 25k raw gem is worth 75k gp if cut, because it's the 1/3rd raw material component for making a cut diamond.

Also note that, under the rules, making a 25k diamond out of an 8.33k diamond will take YEARS, as you have to do 16,700 gp of labor to make that gem, which by the craft rules takes a VERY long time.

Or, you know, use a Fabricate spell and do it instantly.

The Craft rules also are silent on the fact that large gem stones are very difficult to cut, and should have much higher DC's then smaller stones.
===========
No, you can't combine diamonds that are small into one bigger diamonds. Diamonds gain in value by being cut down to brilliance, not by being combined up into ugly masses.

If you want to combine diamonds together, there's a skill called jewelry crafting which came about exactly to show off different gems together to maximum effect.

==Aelryinth


lemeres wrote:

...perhaps the diamond on its own would be worthless from real world jewelry standards. Maybe the diamond is only worth that much money because it has the right qualities as a spell component.

Maybe it only costs that much because every church, king, warlord, wizard, and petty noble are trying to hoard the things for their value as a magical component.

I am gonna use this in my next game, somhow. Thanks:)


Blake, you assume that the issue is of a player being unhappy with the circumstance. It could very easily be a matter of the character being unhappy with the fact that they are no longer the race they used to be. The player might actually be enjoying it in their own way despite roleplaying their character as hating the current circumstance and being willing to take rather extensive steps to remedy it. Now, I could be absolutely wrong about this, I don't believe the OP has mentioned what the actual feelings of the player are on this, so I may be incorrect.

Personally, I like the "Quest for a gem valuable enough." It doesn't cause the party to take a hit to their WBL, and allows for a little more world expanding and creativity. There might be some problems, but as long as the other players are okay with going along with it, (because their characters hate seeing their friend in anguish over his new form, and also maybe out of guilt for doing it to him) I see no real issue. The GM might even use this side quest to introduce a new plot hook to drive the main story further.


I'm having this horrible idea where the God of Economics gets upset at spellcasters and decides to mess with them by making a deal with the God of Stone to create massive quantities of diamonds and flood all markets with them, dropping their value into the dirt. Hell, they might even wind up replacing the world's currency due to their resilience and abundance.

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Economically, it wouldn't matter unless you flooded the world with gold as well.

The diamond is still worth 25k in gold coins for resurrection purposes, even if you buy it for 2k, or stumble across it in the wilderness for nothing.

What you'd get is people buying 25k rated diamonds for the cheap, is all, and have no effect on the gold value of anything else.

===Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

Economically, it wouldn't matter unless you flooded the world with gold as well.

The diamond is still worth 25k in gold coins for resurrection purposes, even if you buy it for 2k, or stumble across it in the wilderness for nothing.

What you'd get is people buying 25k rated diamonds for the cheap, is all, and have no effect on the gold value of anything else.

===Aelryinth

Thank you for pointing that out. You are obviously smarter than me and think of things that the God of Economics would already have covered as he is also smarter than me. Yay retroactively intelligent gods!!!

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Actually, I've a Masters in Economics and Finance, and taught Intro to Economics at the college level. heh! :o

==Aelryinth


Nakteo wrote:
Blake, you assume that the issue is of a player being unhappy with the circumstance.

Yes, I did make that assumption. In 40 or so years of my experience, I've almost never seen a player work so hard for his character to find a solution, at great expense of game time and character wealth, if the solution was only to solve a RP need. At the table, it is far more likely that the player of the reincarnated PC would say "Dude, don't sweat it. My guy actually likes being a half-orc. Let's forget this wish nonsense and go save the princess." Or something like that.

Yes, I made that sound like an awful roleplayer and yes, I know there are much better roleplayers - but the end result would be the same: the half-orc player would, in-character or out, tell the rest of the group that everything is OK and nobody would be working so hard on the wish solution.

Aside from that, there are very few character builds that someone might have made for an elf that would work equally well as a half-orc; just about anything I can imagine as good for an elf would be worse as a half-orc. That would probably be irritating for most players who, no matter how well they take it, no matter how much of a good sport they are, would probably want to restore their former glorious build. And the longer they are kept from it, the longer they are forced to play a weaker version of their character, the less happy they will be. Even the good roleplayers would and do experience this frustration.

Could it be the way you suggest? Sure. It just seems unlikely. It would be the rare group indeed where one player is very happy with his character's transformation but roleplaying that his character is not happy AND other players are joining in to that roleplaying to the extent of wasting campaign time and party resources to fix a fake problem that really doesn't need to be fixed.

As much as I'd love to roleplay with that group, I have yet to see it in reality.


Aelryinth wrote:

Economically, it wouldn't matter unless you flooded the world with gold as well.

The diamond is still worth 25k in gold coins for resurrection purposes, even if you buy it for 2k, or stumble across it in the wilderness for nothing.

What you'd get is people buying 25k rated diamonds for the cheap, is all, and have no effect on the gold value of anything else.

That's unclear and I don't think matches the intent. From a game balance point of view the intent is to make it cost 25K gp to cast the spell. The size and quality of the diamond is irrelevant.

It's more likely that the value doesn't matter and the cost does. Not that it really makes any difference because none of the equipment or purchase rules make any allowance for supply and demand anyway.
A longbow costs the same, whereever you are and however many you buy. Because the cost is a game balance mechanic, not an economic simulator mechanic.


thejeff wrote:
It's more likely that the value doesn't matter and the cost does.

That implies that I could just pay someone 25,000gp for a tiny 50gp diamond and it would work as a spell component.


Aelryinth wrote:

Economically, it wouldn't matter unless you flooded the world with gold as well.

The diamond is still worth 25k in gold coins for resurrection purposes, even if you buy it for 2k, or stumble across it in the wilderness for nothing.

What you'd get is people buying 25k rated diamonds for the cheap, is all, and have no effect on the gold value of anything else.

===Aelryinth

Hmmm, that might just be your interpreted RAI colored by your economics degree.

RAW says otherwise. The spell doesn't say "a 10 carat diamond) or any such thing. It doesn't specify weight or clarity or cut or size or any fixed metric to determine what diamond to use. The spell simply says "A diamond worth 25,000 gp".

As Pubilius Syrus said, "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it."

By that standard, if you have a diamond of a certain weight and clarity and cut that is worth 25,000gp, then it is worth that because there are purchasers who would pay that much for it. But if the economy changed so that NO purchaser would pay that, so that ALL possible purchasers will only pay 1,000 gp for that SAME diamond, it is now worth 1,000gp even though its weight and clarity and cut are unchanged.

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One thing I did in my home campaign to formalize this is a simple ruling.

Gold and gems sub as a material components for anything with a GP value concerning magical item construction.

The value of gold in terms of magic is absolutely known. 1000 gp/day is the maximum a normal artificer can consume in gold per day without special training. That volume of gold is known and an absolute quality.

1000 gp is thus short termed a 'goldweight', the weight of gold an average crafter can consume in one day.

Other material components can be clearly and precisely measured to how much gold they substitute for in any usage of material usage. Silver is 1/10th as good as gold, platinum is x5 better. Gems can be perfectly graded on value by how much gold they sub for.

"Craftsmanship" effectively creates 'extra gold.' It's how craftsmen make money. Taking 350 gp in gems and gold and turning them into a 1000 gp necklace 'makes' 650 gp from the crafter's skill...the necklace is worth 1000 gp as a material component even if it only has 350 gp in raw material.

"Material Components finding" is also an entire career for people. Catching the last leaf to fall off a tree on midwinter's eve may net you a component worth 100 gp in making magical staves. A dram of blood from a virgin on her wedding night might be worth 10 gp. A shield which has withstood the impacts of a hundred different hurled spears might be worth 100 gp, etc etc etc. It all subs for gold.

And since using gold in magical items and the like consumes the gold and it is gone forever, magical components are preferred to using gold whenever possible.

Also note, that because other metals and some skill is involved in making coins, a thousand gp of gold coins has less pure gold then a Goldweight. Most coins are, however, magically unsuitable for use in making things, and would have to be melted down to the valuable gold to actually be able to be used as components.

Priests of the gods of cities and commerce can, however, use straight money for any kind of material components as a boon of their faith. Using up money like that is frowned upon, however, as buying material comps creates jobs and circulates money, leading to more commerce, and such things are considerably more consumable then mining precious metal.

==Aelryinth


thejeff wrote:
From a game balance point of view the intent is to make it cost 25K gp to cast the spell. The size and quality of the diamond is irrelevant.

Correct.

The value of the component is a game-balance (metagame-balance) tool, not an economic tool. The idea is to make wizards pay 25,000gp every time they cast Wish. If a global upheaval made diamonds as common as sand, the wizard cannot get away with paying a few gp for a fist-sized diamond and then cast his wish; he still needs to pay 25,000gp for a diamond to balance the power of the spell.

If the GM has also been following another metagame tool, the WBL chart, this will put severe limitations on that wizard using his Wish spell.

Which is clearly the metagame intent here.

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DM_Blake wrote:

As Pubilius Syrus said, "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it."

We're not in the real world, we're in PF.

You have to have a diamond worth 25k gp. That's an absolute. It doesn't mean a 50gp gem I overpaid for. It doesn't mean a 100K gem I stumbled over for nothing in the wilds.

It means a diamond worth 25k gp by the needs of the magic, which have nothing to do with what you're willing to pay for it.

You might have to pay 30k gp for that gem from a broker. You might have found it on the ground for nothing. By the terms of the magic, its 'value' MUST equal 25k gp. So, we're talking intrinsic worth, not the haggling between buyer and seller.

In 'reality', what you're doing is buying 8333 worth of diamond that some skilled gemcrafter cut up and rendered into a 25k jewel. So, you're paying for the skill of a gemcrafter. He's going to know the value of the gem, you're going to know he's making triple his money, and he's probably aware that anyone who needs Resurrection is not someone to trifle with, so he'll pocket his 16,667 gp of profit and go to work on the next gem.

==Aelryinth

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DM_Blake wrote:
thejeff wrote:
From a game balance point of view the intent is to make it cost 25K gp to cast the spell. The size and quality of the diamond is irrelevant.

Correct.

The value of the component is a game-balance (metagame-balance) tool, not an economic tool. The idea is to make wizards pay 25,000gp every time they cast Wish. If a global upheaval made diamonds as common as sand, the wizard cannot get away with paying a few gp for a fist-sized diamond and then cast his wish; he still needs to pay 25,000gp for a diamond to balance the power of the spell.

If the GM has also been following another metagame tool, the WBL chart, this will put severe limitations on that wizard using his Wish spell.

Which is clearly the metagame intent here.

From the God of Economics example above, what would happen is he'd make it ridiculously cheap to cast high level spells...for a time.

Then the supply of high level stones would dry up abruptly as the goddess of magic and the god of mining conspired to make the lodes go dry, bringing cost and consequences once more back into line. The gods of thieves would have a field day stealing all the hoarded jewels back, blah blah blah, until the economy was back to an even keel...such as it is.

==Aelryinth


Matthew Downie wrote:
thejeff wrote:
It's more likely that the value doesn't matter and the cost does.
That implies that I could just pay someone 25,000gp for a tiny 50gp diamond and it would work as a spell component.

Sure, if you want to run it that way - and it wasn't a scam between two PCs or an ally or something. Doesn't really matter. The point is that it costs 25,000 gp for the spell. The actual component is fluff.

I prefer to maintain a little more suspension of disbelief and have them actually need to acquire a diamond of the right value, but whatever.

It's really simpler than this: Items have costs listed in the rules. Cost=value. None of the various economic oddities suggested actually work by the rules.


Ughbash wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Carat weight is what I generally go with. Presuming the diamond is comparatively middle-of-the-road as diamonds go, it weighs in at 25 carats cut weight. 344 carat weight per round, 0.0727 lb - a bit over an ounce (1.162oz) or ~5 grams.
Your math is flawed... there are 28.35 grams in an ounce, so 1.162 oz would be ~33 grams.

the carat to ounce conversion is also flawed - a 1.162 ounce diamond would be something like a 160 carat diamond. 1 ounce (av) is 141.75 carats, the troy or jewelers' ounce is a little heavier at 155.5 carats. Soomehow with all this bad math the 5 gram weight for a 25 carat diamond is correct, the metric carat (which is the current world standard measure of diamonds) is set at 200mg so a 25 carat diamond weighs 5 grams.

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