Dull Grey Ioun Stone a minor item?

[nogoodscallywag]

Is this a minor magical item, even with the resonant power of "read magic?"

Dull Gray Stone (Ioun Stone)
Aura faint universal; CL 12th

Slot none; Price: 25 gp; Weight —.

DESCRIPTION
These are ioun stones that have been burned out or otherwise rendered all but powerless. They retain the ability to float and orbit, and are useful as the target of spells such as continual flame, daylight, and silence, allowing you to keep your hands free. They may be any shape (cabochon, disk, ellipsoid, and so on).

Cracked: This stone has no powers. Price: 25 gp.

Flawed: This stone has no powers. Price: 25 gp.

See Inferior Ioun Stones for details on cracked and flawed variant stones.

Finally- can potions have permenancy used on the imbiber? For instance, a player drinks a potion of tongues. Then he casts perm on himself. This legal?

[VRMH]

Yes. Mundane dull grey stones do not hover around your head.

[nogoodscallywag]

Hmmm, the description above says it retains ability to float.

Also, is a Scroll of Permanency a minor, medium, or major magical item?

[VRMH]

nogoodscallywag wrote:

can potions have permenancy used on the imbiber? For instance, a player drinks a potion of tongues. Then he casts perm on himself. This legal?

Yes. The drinker of a potion counts as the caster of the spell therein.

[VRMH]

nogoodscallywag wrote:

is a Scroll of Permanency a minor, medium, or major magical item?

It's mostly a problem, since the material costs depend on what spell is being made permanent but has to be paid when scribing the scroll.

[Starglim]

And of self-levitation, yes. Did you think it might be something else?

[nogoodscallywag]

ok, cool.

Finally, would you say this is correct:

Non-caster wants to drink potion of tongues.

He then wants to use Read Magic via the resonated power of the Dull Grey Ioun Stone on a Permanency Scroll.

He must cast the Permenancy himself, correct?

Viola, tongues is permanent.

However, a chart: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/scrolls

Table: Scrolls
Minor Medium Major Spell Level Caster Level
01–05 — — 0 1st
06–50 — — 1st 1st
51–95 01–05 — 2nd 3rd
96–100 06–65 — 3rd 5th
— 66–95 01–05 4th 7th
— 96–100 06–50 5th 9th
— — 51–70 6th 11th
— — 71–85 7th 13th
— — 86–95 8th 15th
— — 96–100 9th 17th

Appears the player would need to buy a Permanency Scroll, but it's a Medium magical item so he can't simply walk into a metropolis and buy one, eh?

[lemeres]

Dull grey stones are minor items because, even with their resonant ability...they basically do nothing unless you have the item to MAKE them resonate. So any cost and rarity problems comes mroe with the way finder (and since the hand of the mage, another item that gives a cantrip, is 450 gp, then it is fair)

Otherwise, they are just overpriced toys that float about your head. Their main use is to put some spell on them (such as continual flame). So a slight convenient at best since you could cast that spell on your hat for a similar effect.

[nogoodscallywag]

Hmm I see. A Wayfinder isn't a minor magical item, then, either, since they are so rare and usually passed among pathfinders?

[Joesi]

I don't know much about the subject of magic item power classifications, but I would think that permanency would be a major magic item since there's only 5% chance of it appearing as a medium item, compared to a massive chance as a major one.

Anyway that aside, read magic isn't the main thing they'd need to do, since I presume that they could take 20 on a spellcraft check to do so as long as they had at least a total bonus of +5 to spellcraft (which isn't hard if they're at least a few levels and have some int).

The big issue would be with actually casting the spell from a scroll without being a caster. That would require multiple Use Magic Device checks.

The first would be to emulate a class feature (able to cast arcane spells), which is DC 20, but will benefit from being higher.

Secondly, they may need to make a UMD check (DC 30) to emulate an ability score if they don't have the necessary 15 int.

Next, they'll have to make a UMD check (DC 29) to emulate that spell being on their class's spell list.

Next, they'll have to make a caster level check (DC 10) using their emulated caster level from the first UMD check in order to successfully cast the spell.

Overall, it will be very difficult to do, since taking 10 and taking 20 are not an option. It wouldn't even be possible to do at all without at least a +9 total bonus to UMD. Even with that, the risk of rolling a 1 in any of the many attempts would prevent any further attempts to activate the scroll for that day, resulting in likely a matter of many days to activate the scroll with only +9 UMD.

[kinevon]

Joesi wrote:

I don't know much about the subject of magic item power classifications, but I would think that permanency would be a major magic item since there's only 5% chance of it appearing as a medium item, compared to a massive chance as a major one.

Anyway that aside, read magic isn't the main thing they'd need to do, since I presume that they could take 20 on a spellcraft check to do so as long as they had at least a total bonus of +5 to spellcraft (which isn't hard if they're at least a few levels and have some int).

The big issue would be with actually casting the spell from a scroll without being a caster. That would require multiple Use Magic Device checks.

The first would be to emulate a class feature (able to cast arcane spells), which is DC 20, but will benefit from being higher.

Secondly, they may need to make a UMD check (DC 30) to emulate an ability score if they don't have the necessary 15 int.

Next, they'll have to make a UMD check (DC 29) to emulate that spell being on their class's spell list.

Next, they'll have to make a caster level check (DC 10) using their emulated caster level from the first UMD check in order to successfully cast the spell.

Overall, it will be very difficult to do, since taking 10 and taking 20 are not an option. It wouldn't even be possible to do at all without at least a +9 total bonus to UMD. Even with that, the risk of rolling a 1 in any of the many attempts would prevent any further attempts to activate the scroll for that day, resulting in likely a matter of many days to activate the scroll with only +9 UMD.

You are using too many UMD rolls, there.

To use a scroll of a spell:
Read Magic or DC 20+ spell level Spellcraft check to decipher the scroll (once)
DC 20+ caster level (Permanency, as a 5th level spell, will have a CL of 9, minimum)
DC 30 UMD check if they do not have either Int or Char of 15+

No need to emulate being a spell caster, nor having a caster level.

From UMD:

Use a Scroll wrote:

Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check.

[LazarX]

The permanency scroll has to be written in the caster level required for the spell you want to make permanent. The cost of the scroll also has to include the cost for the spell itself.

[Joesi]

kinevon wrote:

You are using too many UMD rolls, there.

No need to emulate being a spell caster, nor having a caster level.

None of what you quoted said that you you don't need to emulate being a caster.

I kinda of understand your point, but I don't see how it's officially any more correct than my view.

Having a spell on a spell list is useless if the character is not a caster. A fighter with a spell on a spell list makes no sense since he's not a caster and can't cast the spell. He needs to emulate being a generic caster and then emulate the spell being on the caster's list.

Any caster class would not need to emulate being a caster, but a non-caster should.

Nowhere does UMD rules state that when using a scroll/etc. that the character's level is used as the effective caster level. A caster level would be needed, and the only way one can get it is from emulating the class feature of a caster. It makes specific mention of giving a caster level to the character.

I would like to be corrected if somehow there was solid information that says it it's unnecessary though.

[kinevon]

@Joesi: I don't understand your argument, because you are using pieces that do not go together.

UMD to activate a scroll wrote:

Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check.

This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.

UMD to activate a wand wrote:

Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. Failing the roll does not expend a charge.

So, are you also saying that a Rogue, as an example, who wants to use a Wand of Cuire Light Wounds needs to make TWO UMD checks? One to emulate having the Cleric spell list, and a second to activate the wand?

No, all you need to do, in either case, is make the UMD roll to activate the item, as that is what the roll is for:

Quote:

Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list

This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.[quote[