OK, so I 'm trying my first prestige class in alot of years, and am uncertain in how well it is progressing. It is a 5-level class made for any spellcaster that has a familiar. Spellcasting progresses each level, but all class features outside of that actually only improve the familiar.
Here is the LINK to my standard setup PDF, but below is the breakdown of what I've got.
Spellcasting Improves at each level, pretty basic for a prestige class.
Skilled Familiar
At each level the familiar adds one skill to it's list of class skills. Mostly for fun. I wouldn't call it much of a boost. My current S&S character is gaining a parrot familiar soon, and I thought it would be funny if the parrot was somehow a better sailor than he (I won't actually be using this class. Only Paizo material allowed) Would it be best to ban certain skills, like UMD?
Augmented Familiar
This gradually boosts a familiar's ability scores, but never beyond 10.
Familiar Ward
A boost to AC and saves when the familiar is next to it's master. The bonus began as "add level to AC and saves" but changed to a flat +2, that increases to +4. Not sure which I prefer.
Mettle
They already get Evasion so this didn't seem like a stretch.
Familiar Spellcasting
This is what I'm really struggling with and requesting input on. Basically, the familiar gains the ability to use the master's prepared spells/spells per day. I'm very unsure how much is too little or too much, and getting the wording right has been tough. Here's what I have so far:
Familiar Spellcasting (Sp): At 2nd level, a familiar master's familiar gains limited ability to cast spells. The familiar uses it's master's spells prepared for the day or spells known and it's master's caster level, but uses it's own ability scores for attack rolls, concentration checks, saving throws DCs, highest spell level it is capable of casting, and the like. The familiar can only cast spells if it present when it's master prepares his spells for the day. It can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells even if it's form is not like that of it's master, but if a spell requires a material or focus component, the familiar must carry the components or be in the same square as them. The familiar cannot cast a spell in the same round as it's master, and vice versa.
Beginning at 2nd level, the familiar can cast any of it's master's 0-level spells. It can do so a number of times per day equal to the familiar master's level.
Beginning at 3rd level, the familiar can cast a higher level spell once per day. It cannot cast a spell of the highest spell level it's master knows. Once cast, the spell is removed from it's masters's list of spells prepared for the day or spells per day. At 4th and 5th level, the familiar can cast a higher level spell one additional time per day.
Dotting this so I can think about it when I don't have a headache.
The link is broken, so I don't know the full details, but from what I can see here, it seems interesting. I can't rightly judge it without seeing the familiar's increased scores though.
Here is a LINK that works, but its also in my PDF compilation thread. I forgot that when I rename the file and upload it to dropbox again, the link changes. :)
Something about this class just... feels good. It's nice that it has 3/4 BAB and full casting, and you only need to wait till level 3 or 4 to meet the requirements. I think you could sneak in improved familiar as a bonus feat somewhere (even wizards get a bonus feat for 5 levels), but it feels good now.
Why are you limiting augmented familiar to a cap of 10 across the board? I understand not wanting to create a familiar powerhouse with physicals, not buffing int because its already happening, and not buffing the will save, but why not charisma?
My actual issue is sorcerers with the arcane bloodline don't get get to use familiar spellcasting effectively because their familiars don't have a high enough charisma. There should be a way for non-int casters to use familiar casting. You should specifically say that familiars use int-based casting, or you could allow Augmented familiar to raise charisma higher.
What if the spellcasting worked like the rogue talents Minor Magic and Major Magic? Essentially some minor tricks the familiar has picked up based on exposure to/training with magic via link to the master/mistress.
Also some things to think about:
How does this fit with Improved Familiars?
How will this work with Familiar Archetypes?
I wonder if, since there are now many ways to enhance familiars through feats, class archetypes and familiar archetypes on top of many buff spells a familiar-centric PrC may be redundant. Then again that's only my opinion.
Pseudos,
good catch on the Cha casters. Do you have a suggestion to fix that? I'm leaving Imp Familiar out of it, because some people might just want a plain animal instead of some some magical creature with powers. If Imp Familiar included some way to enhance a standard familiar instead of choosing from a new list, I would go for it.
Mark,
Slapping on those rogue talents would be easier for me, since I feel like I'm still struggling with the wording, but using those feels like a downgrade. At later levels, being able to cast 1st level spells will not be as useful. I can't think of any way that what I have right now would conflict with Imp Familiar or the archetypes. I tried to keep my features separate from the standard familiar abilities from gaining levels, so that there would no effect if the feature were swapped out. Have you spotted a conflict?
And you could be right about redundancy. But this is a "pet" project, isn't it? ;)
Options to fix the problem:
1. Say all familiars are Int casters
2. Buff familiars harder; I'm thinking 'augmented familiar' doesn't cap at 10, but 20. This lets a Cha caster have an advantage over an Int caster, as Cha on animals can start at a 12 or more; I'm okay with that.
3. Give familiars Cha progression the same way they have Int progression.
My personal vote is 2, to make the familiar class a little more valuable, and give a casting familiar a little more power.
Well, the way I had it written, a lot of animals wouldn't be able to cast their master's spells at all! I removed the ability score limit of 10, consolidated augmented familiar and familiar ward, and changed the various bonuses it gets so that they won't stack with typical magic items.
Looks good! I would change the wording on Augmented familiar to read:
'The familiar of a familiar master gains a cumulative bonus each level, taking the form of:'
Good choice with the ability score of choice and word revision. Definitely going to try to shove an npc with this into my current campaign; that dragon is adorable.
It would be cool if the master could use the familiar's senses or even transfer his mind into the familiars body. That way, PCs can benefit directly from their familiar's abilities.
That's pretty clever. Could be beyond the scope of a 5-level class though. Is there a spell or class feature I could look up for a starting point?
Good choice with the ability score of choice and word revision. Definitely going to try to shove an npc with this into my current campaign; that dragon is adorable.
I'd love to hear how that goes. My group doesn't use homebrew.
I found the following with a quick search:
sensory link
possess companion
share senses
beast-bonded witch
I like it. Gonna use share senses as s starting point. Thanks A.
I spun an improved share senses class feature, and an improved version of it for a capstone. No more dead levels. Woo!
That looks interesting.
The default assumption for prestige classes seems to be that they use prestige class level as CL for spell-like abilities.
I find the last sentence of tenacious bond somewhat confusing. Is it meant as a last resort ability? Unless I'm interested in watching the gruesome spectacle of my paralyzed body being eaten alive by ravenous ghouls from my familiar's perspective, I'm not sure how that helps. Hopefully, my little buddy is doing everything in its power to save me without the need of being reminded to do so!
Also, how do you decide to act when you are unconscious or sleeping? And how do you target your familiar without having line of sight?
Note that being helpless does not prevent a creature from using actions (though accompanying circumstances might say otherwise).
Nitpicking style errors:
A modifier to a dynamic value (something you roll) is applied on something. A modifier to a static value (a stat score or DC) is applied to something.
Using the prestige class level instead of caster level was the first plan. This seemed to severely limit the duration per day. The normal duration for the spell is minutes per day, but I could make this 10 minutes per day.
It is weird, you're right. Scrambling for a last ability I guess. I suppose I was thinking that some GMs limit the amount of decision making a pet has, and this would help to mitigate that in an emergency. I will work on something better.
I had to read your last point about three times to get it. Don't think I have ever noticed that. I will make the change to the document and be conscious of it in the future.
Can't view it on my phone, but 3/4 BAB, full caster progression? Is there any wizard or arcanist who wouldn't take it for bonus hp/attack?
A caster who decides to take this class to buff a familiar would fall behind on their normal class features, and taking this for 5 levels would yield a small hand full of HP and 1 extra point of BAB. However, I don't see a problem with dropping this to 1/2 BAB. You think its important enough to do so?
A caster who decides to take this class to buff a familiar would fall behind on their normal class features, and taking this for 5 levels would yield a small hand full of HP and 1 extra point of BAB. However, I don't see a problem with dropping this to 1/2 BAB. You think its important enough to do so?
Wizard at least doesn't have much by way of normal class features. I don't know how important it is to drop it to 1/2 BAB, but it did strike me as odd. A casting familiar is already a great boost to action economy, giving you buffs without requiring you to quicken them. Not sure that giving extra BAB is necessary.
I really like it. I'm glad it says a familiar can't cast a spell on the same round as its owner. However, what about quicken spells? I'd personally change the text so that the familiar's spellcasting simply counts towards the owner's limit of one spell per round.
As for the 3/4 BAB, I always feel jipped when taking a prestige class. I don't think it would be a big deal to leave it there. However, if you lower it to 1/2 BAB, I recommend compensating in some other way.
I really like it. I'm glad it says a familiar can't cast a spell on the same round as its owner. However, what about quicken spells? I'd personally change the text so that the familiar's spellcasting simply counts towards the owner's limit of one spell per round.
As for the 3/4 BAB, I always feel jipped when taking a prestige class. I don't think it would be a big deal to leave it there. However, if you lower it to 1/2 BAB, I recommend compensating in some other way.
Missed the same-round thing! In which case, yeah, leave it 3/4 or boost something else to compensate if you do change it.
I rewrote the class feature so that the details are in there, instead of referencing and then modifying a splatbook spell. I will add language to addesss 1 spell/round vs quicken spells.
Removed the capstone too. Just wasn't feeling it. My ideas were either too situational or too much of a stretch to compliment the theme. Any suggestions?
Shared consciousness has a few typos: "He don't need line of sight or line of effect to his familiar", the yous and your in paragraph 2 need changed to he and his. The third paragraph's increment line would better read "but must be spent in 5-minute increments".
As far as capstones I'd want if I pc'ed this class, how about letting the familiar actually talk, even though its not a bird? I know its not much in the way of power, but it sure would be nice for flavor reasons.
Mechanically, so far you Buff ability scores, share casting, share senses, and buff saves.
In line with ability scores, I think a changeable permanent transmutation(or polymorph) would be cool, like letting you change the form of your familiar, or giving a daily changeable buff permanent duration on it, kind of like the alchemist's eternal potion.
In line with shared casting could use a one-off highest level spell, or one spell use that doesn't count towards spells/day.
You've hit the cap on sensors I think, but you could increase how far empathic link goes (even per level).
Personally, I like the talking bit, and the semi-permanent polymorph, but you could technically get a permanency equivalent on your familiar at level 8 this way, and might be overpowered.
Edited to clarify what I meant.
I would go with slow BAB-progression (It's not a real disadvantage, since most classes that qualify for this prestige class have slow BAB-progression anyway). To compensate, maybe give them one or two teamwork feats that both the familiar and its master can use?
Regarding Share Consciousness: I just noticed that the hunter has a similar ability (improved and greater empathic link) with a simpler wording.
There are a lot of possibilities for additional abilities (enough to make this a 10-level prestige class, though I think it was a good choice to restrict it to 5 levels). Maybe an ability that makes it less dangerous for the familiar to deliver touch spells (similar to Spring Attack)?
Okee-dokee, got a new version up. The 3rd level ability now has two versions. Didn't want to toss out the old one quite yet. Haven't started the capstone yet. Thanks you Pseudos and Amaneunsis.
Was going through tabs today and noticed a change in your pdf, forgive me I Necro'ed too hard, but i wasn't quite two weeks.
Spring attack at level 4 would be interesting if it let a familiar move and cast instead of just melee attack; melee attacking seems out of place. Could you give some context to why spring attack?
I was meaning to get around to putting up a new post. I had some ideas I injected, and the class was starting to look a little bloated, so I wanted some time to think on it.
Spring Attack was put in to address an Amanuesis suggestion to make delivering touch attacks less dangerous. I tried wording it different ways. One version required making a touch attack, one version included an increase to speed when using the ability. In the end, I made it short and simple. Perhaps I should include a sentance relating to delivering touch attacks.
I wish Spring attack worked differently, but I'm happy its there. In standard play Spring attack doesn't let you move, cast a touch spell and deliver the free touch attack, and then move, you can only do a standard melee attack. Meaning my familiar would need to cast while I do no casting one turn, then move-touch-move the next while I can cast.
This is fine, but none-then-double casting feels awkward. Would that Spring attack was more caster friendly.
I wish Spring attack worked differently, but I'm happy its there. In standard play Spring attack doesn't let you move, cast a touch spell and deliver the free touch attack, and then move, you can only do a standard melee attack. Meaning my familiar would need to cast while I do no casting one turn, then move-touch-move the next while I can cast.
This is fine, but none-then-double casting feels awkward. Would that Spring attack was more caster friendly.
The only reason why the combination described by you doesn't work is that it's impossible to make the free touch attack allowed as part of casting the spell as part of spring attack. The way I read it, as long as the master is the one casting the spell and the familiar is the one delivering, this should work.
Also, keep in mind that you can hold the charge of a touch spell indefinitely. A master could ready, wait for their familiar to deliver the touch spell cast before combat and cast their own spell in a single turn. And with this prestige class the familiar holding the charge doesn't even prevent the master from casting (provided the held spell was originally cast by the familiar).
Additionally, a ruthless master could have their familiar provoke attacks of opportunity intentionally to trigger defensive shock or similar retributive spells cast before combat...
I wasn't intending for the familiar to use spring attack for spells it casts itself, although a situation like that could arise. It was intended that the master casts s touch spell and designates his familiar as the one who will deliver it. Spring attack can be a way to do that with more safety. Familiars are often slow, but wizards are clever enough to work around that.
Does the class need anything added, removed, or fixed?
To my understanding, you cant cast at all using Spring attack as casting is not a melee attack; interestingly without it you could cast-move-free touch, but you cant move back out of range. With this Familiar master you've found a way to effectively let Spring attack work for casters without sacrificing spells/round, which is great.
I'm not seeing any issues with verbage of mechanics, but to be sure about two fringe cases:
You can go into combat with touch attacks stored on both you and the familiar, and do 2x damage in the first round of pretty much every encounter
You and the familiar can cast 3 spells in any round by casting one spell, one quickened spell, and your familiar casts a quickened spell
As long as both those are intended, I think you're golden.
The 2-spells-in-first-round thing is certainly possible, but I'd be interested to see how difficult it would actually be to pull off in a real game. Distance is still a factor, and so is putting your familiar at risk. Additionally, most good attack spells aren't touch attacks - they are either a ray or an area, so a caster would have to really focus on abusing this (which is entirely possible). A more likely use would be that the familiar uses spring attack to deliver a buff spell. I will ponder this a bit more, as I like to avoid extra cheese when I can.
Pumping out three spells in a turn is not my intention, even if it is a corner case. I will remove the exception for quickened spells. It will go back to master or familiar, no exceptions.
Addressing balance:
1. I don't think the two stored touch attacks is a big deal, especially given my second point:
2. 3 spells in a round is certainly an issue, but one quickened and one standard action with different casters should be fine, please allow it. Since you can have a quickened and a regular, you could get two touch spells in one round anyway, so carrying 2 touch spells into combat could be okay.
Consider the alternative, where you and your familiar cant take advantage of one quickened spell and cant deliver spell touch attacks on the same round: the class seems under-powered.
You've taken 5 levels for a companion that can deliver touch attacks, something that I feel Spring attack should have enabled in the first place. Admittedly the familiar is a little better/takes less damage, and other flavorful options, but these aren't mechanically strong. Giving up 5 levels of wizard powers and having to find and pay for 5 levels of spells isn't mechanically worth it without a little side cheese, that happens max 3 times a day.
You convinced me. The familiar's use of normal spells and quickened will count towards the master's normal limit.
I've looked at the rules for delivering spells as a touch attack and spring attack. It looks to me as though the feat has always allowed you to deliver spell touch attacks.
It absolutely does, but you cant cast a spell the same round that you deliver the touch attack with Spring attack. The only thing allowed is movement up to your speed and a single melee attack, whereas if you don't use Spring attack you can cast a touch spell as a standard action, move, then make a free touch attack, though you end your turn inside range. Neither case provokes attacks of opportunity.
I don't like the fact you cant cast a touch spell in spring attack and deliver it.
There was a feat for it in 3.5. Mobile Spellcasting, I think.
I uploaded the PDF with the revison. I think it does the trick