Tips on using Balazar please


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion

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Can I ask a very vague question? Being new to this I'm very intrigued by Balazar but I am not exactly sure what kind of strategy to take while playing him. He is so different from a straight forward fighter. Any tips on helping me be successful with him? For example how do you ever get your combat up high enough to defeat your first monster? So that's before you have any in your hand to discard and add the d4. I really want to use him long term but I just foresee getting my ass handed to me by multiple monsters quickly.


He has a power that he can discard a card to get a random monster in his hand. You can use that. You can also stock him up with spells that will help him in combat. Magic Fang (if I recall) will help him.

Also, once you are clobbering monsters with your chicken, don't miss the fact that his power lets him take monsters into his hand, be the henchman or not.


I was actually wondering if henchmen fell under the "monster" category when it came to adding them to your hand. So If you defeat a henchmen you can add it to your hand?

I saw, but haven't used, the power to discard a spell and add a monster to your hand. I'm sure I will in the morning when I get home from work and squeeze in a quick solo game. I've only played the first scenario and got super lucky with running into the villain early in all three locations (It just hit me as I'm sitting here typing that I totally misplayed that because I'm pretty sure I was supposed to summon a creature with her and I didn't. I was so caught up in how I was going to possibly beat her.)


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Balazar is a pretty good fighter out of the gate, as long as you have cards in your hand. You have Padrig displayed. Find a monster, your combat check defaults to your strength die. So, this is a strength check, which means Padrig lets you put a card on top of your deck to add your arcane skill to your check: so, 1d6 (strength) + 1d10+2 (arcane skill). That's close to what a weapon user is getting, if they have a weapon. Discard a spell ahead of time to get your first monster in your hand for an additional d4.

As Hawkmoon notes, Magic Fang also works with this ability.


PabloKruz wrote:
I was actually wondering if henchmen fell under the "monster" category when it came to adding them to your hand. So If you defeat a henchmen you can add it to your hand?

As long as the henchman is a monster, some are barriers.


Scott Hall wrote:

Balazar is a pretty good fighter out of the gate, as long as you have cards in your hand. You have Padrig displayed. Find a monster, your combat check defaults to your strength die. So, this is a strength check, which means Padrig lets you put a card on top of your deck to add your arcane skill to your check: so, 1d6 (strength) + 1d10+2 (arcane skill). That's close to what a weapon user is getting, if they have a weapon. Discard a spell ahead of time to get your first monster in your hand for an additional d4.

As Hawkmoon notes, Magic Fang also works with this ability.

So when you use Padrigs power it gives you the d6 for strength plus the d10+2 for arcane? I was playing that wrong too. I was using d6 and just adding 2 for the arcane, not adding the d10 as well. That changes everything. I thought I was maxing out at 8 (perfect d6+2 for arcane) going against monsters with a whole lot more power than that.

Sovereign Court

Your arcane skill is not just the bonus, it is the whole text for Arcane. So, when something adds your Arcane Skill, it adds your Charisma (1d10, plus skill feat if you have any), +2. If it said to use your Arcane Die, then it is just the 1d10, no bonus, no feats. To my knowledge, there is nothing currently in PACG that uses just the bonus to a skill and not the die.


Oh snap, I've been forgetting that Strength d6.


btw Unless there's something I'm missing, I don't recommend Enchanted Fang. It gives +d4, but only that, whereas discarding it for a random monster gives you d4 at first, later d6, and potentially an extra d6 on top. So if you're discarding it anyway, you're better off having something more broadly useful, like one of the +3 skill check spells.

Maybe take one on the off-chance you run into a monster that requires the Magic attribute to defeat, but not more than one.


So if you are using Padrigs power and you have a spell that bumps your charisma does that bump your combat roll even higher? (I'm not sure if such a card even exists, just brainstorming here.)

This has been immensely helpful. Thank you guys so much for your help. Now I really can't wait to get home and knock out another game with Balazar.


Balazar and Padrig's interaction takes some getting used to- I know my friend playing him had to take a moment each fight to figure out what he was doing. Adding strength and charisma (with the +2 for arcane) doesn't seem very natural.

I'd argue that Enchanted Fang is worth keeping around and using as a spell, because Balazar can recharge it, keeping another card in his deck. I've only done the first scenario, but all four characters were very close to running out of cards, so maybe I'm feeling over-cautious.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PabloKruz wrote:
So if you are using Padrigs power and you have a spell that bumps your charisma does that bump your combat roll even higher? (I'm not sure if such a card even exists, just brainstorming here.)

Such a spell exists. It is called Glibness, and according to the WoTR rulebook is even in Balazar's suggested starting deck. However, in past sets it has been Elite, not Basic, so I don't know if that is an error or a change. (I expect my WoTR set to show up later today).

And yes, the way Glibness is worded, (adds 3 to a roll that uses one's Charisma skill), I believe it should apply. Note that you aren't making a Charisma check (it is a Strength check), but you are using your Charisma skill, because Balazar's Arcane skill is based on Charisma.


I too wondered this the other night. I believe Glibness was reworded to say that it adds to a Charisma check, so it is a no go with Padrig.


Anything that adds to Strength, Charisma, or Arcane will add to Balazar's combat check (assuming you're using Padrig).

If you don't have Glibness, the spell "Strength" should do just fine.


Not exactly.

If a card were to say "Add to a check using your Charisma die" that would work. If a card were to say "Add to a check using your Charisma skill" that would work too. But if the card were to say "Add to a Charisma check" that wouldn't work.

Balazar using Padrig is making a Strength check. He gets to add his full Arcane skill (Charisma die + Charisma feats + Arcane modifier), but that doesn't make it an Arcane check or a Charisma check. See FAQ.

Padrig is an example of adding a skill to a check. Glibness in WotR (I believe) now says it adds to a Charisma check. In RotR it said a check using your Charisma die. In the class decks it might say a check using your Charisma skill. Either of those two wordings (RotR or CD) would work with Padrig. But the current wording in WotR does not.

If you are mixing cards from various sets, I'd say you should take the wording on the most recently released card. So you can't make a loophole by taking a RotR card or CD card. (Not that any of us would ever think of doing such a thing!)

Strength would work with Padrig because that is the "check determined skill", so you are making a Strength check.

Also note, Padrig helps with all Strength checks, not just combat. Your melee weapon wielding friends will like you.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

Not exactly.

If a card were to say "Add to a check using your Charisma die" that would work. If a card were to say "Add to a check using your Charisma skill" that would work too. But if the card were to say "Add to a Charisma check" that wouldn't work.

Balazar using Padrig is making a Strength check. He gets to add his full Arcane skill (Charisma die + Charisma feats + Arcane modifier), but that doesn't make it an Arcane check or a Charisma check. See FAQ.

Padrig is an example of adding a skill to a check. Glibness in WotR (I believe) now says it adds to a Charisma check. In RotR it said a check using your Charisma die. In the class decks it might say a check using your Charisma skill. Either of those two wordings (RotR or CD) would work with Padrig. But the current wording in WotR does not.

If you are mixing cards from various sets, I'd say you should take the wording on the most recently released card. So you can't make a loophole by taking a RotR card or CD card. (Not that any of us would ever think of doing such a thing!)

Strength would work with Padrig because that is the "check determined skill", so you are making a Strength check.

Hmm, I think you're right, but that seems... dumb. I understand not being able to get two dice off of a Charisma blessing here, but I absolutely think Glibness should [be amended to] apply here.

In the mean time, however, definitely take Strength.

Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Also note, Padrig helps with all Strength checks, not just combat. Your melee weapon wielding friends will like you.

Padrig helps with all Strength checks made by the player who displayed him. So why would they like you (for this)?


Because you'll be good at getting weapons you can give to them. Balazar can roll 1d6 + 1d10 +2 to acquire a card via a Strength check, at just the cost of putting a card on top of your deck. You are rolling an 11 more than half the time. No more moans when the caster encounters that awesome sword your friend has been wanting.

While he is holding on to it, Balazar can use it to top-deck for Padrig.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Because you'll be good at getting weapons you can give to them.

Oh.

And I just noticed you ninja'd me earlier - my first post in this thread was in reply to First World Bard, I never saw your reply immediately following his. >.<


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

Not exactly.

If a card were to say "Add to a check using your Charisma die" that would work. If a card were to say "Add to a check using your Charisma skill" that would work too. But if the card were to say "Add to a Charisma check" that wouldn't work.

Balazar using Padrig is making a Strength check. He gets to add his full Arcane skill (Charisma die + Charisma feats + Arcane modifier), but that doesn't make it an Arcane check or a Charisma check. See FAQ.

Padrig is an example of adding a skill to a check. Glibness in WotR (I believe) now says it adds to a Charisma check. In RotR it said a check using your Charisma die. In the class decks it might say a check using your Charisma skill. Either of those two wordings (RotR or CD) would work with Padrig. But the current wording in WotR does not.

If you are mixing cards from various sets, I'd say you should take the wording on the most recently released card. So you can't make a loophole by taking a RotR card or CD card. (Not that any of us would ever think of doing such a thing!)

Strength would work with Padrig because that is the "check determined skill", so you are making a Strength check.

Also note, Padrig helps with all Strength checks, not just combat. Your melee weapon wielding friends will like you.

Padrig says ". . .add your arcane skill plus the scenario's adventure deck number to that check" So the wording doesn't really fall under either of the "charisma check" or "charisma die" catagories. Ideas? New question: if I am playing the base set is my "scenario deck number" 1 or 0 when applied to things like this?

Second new question: if I come across a boon that has "Intelligence Arcane X" to acquire can I use my Charisma Arcane, or is that specifically Intelligence?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

To determine the scenario's adventure deck number, look at the scenario card. If it's a B, treat it as 0.

It might help you to read the check as if there were an "or" in there: "Intelligence OR Arcane." It doesn't care what your Arcane skill is based on.


Vic Wertz wrote:

To determine the scenario's adventure deck number, look at the scenario card. If it's a B, treat it as 0.

It might help you to read the check as if there were an "or" in there: "Intelligence OR Arcane." It doesn't care what your Arcane skill is based on.

Thanks Vic. Could you possible clear up the question real quick about Padrig. If we bump our charisma does that add to Padrigs power? Such as using Glibness to add +3 does that then make it: Strength + Charisma + 5 (instead of 2) + the deck number?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PabloKruz wrote:

Thanks Vic. Could you possible clear up the question real quick about Padrig. If we bump our charisma does that add to Padrigs power? Such as using Glibness to add +3 does that then make it: Strength + Charisma + 5 (instead of 2) + the deck number?

Pablo: as Hawkmoon pointed out, using Glibness won't help you; the version in WotR is worded differently than earlier versions and no longer applies.

However, putting your Skill feats in Charisma will definitely add to Padrig's power.


PabloKruz wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

To determine the scenario's adventure deck number, look at the scenario card. If it's a B, treat it as 0.

It might help you to read the check as if there were an "or" in there: "Intelligence OR Arcane." It doesn't care what your Arcane skill is based on.

Thanks Vic. Could you possible clear up the question real quick about Padrig. If we bump our charisma does that add to Padrigs power? Such as using Glibness to add +3 does that then make it: Strength + Charisma + 5 (instead of 2) + the deck number?

Not with Glibness. Here's the difference.

Your check is:
A Strength Check + your Arcane (as Charisma) skill + the adventure deck number (from the Veteran trait.)

Glibness affects Charisma checks. The Balazar/Padrig combo is a Strength check (so the Strength spell would work fine.)


Hi folks. I saw this in the rulebook :

" Some cards and powers affect only specific types of checks, such as Dexterity checks, Acrobatics checks, or non-combat checks. If, on your character card, the skill you’re using refers to another skill, both skills count for the purpose of determining the type of check. For example, if you’re using the Arcane skill on a combat check, and your character card says that your Arcane skill is Intelligence +2, the check counts as both a combat Arcane check and a combat Intelligence check. Traits also determine the type of check; for example, if you’re attempting a combat check and you played a weapon that added the Ranged trait, it counts as a Ranged combat check."

So doesn't the glibness now count as padrig says add arcane skill (making it an arcane check as well) and uses charisma skill (also making it a charisma check)?


Keep reading that same section and you should find something like this (this is the FAQ version, but something similar should appear in the WotR rulebook).

FAQ wrote:
If a power adds an additional skill to a check, that skill is not added as a trait to the check. For example, a card that adds your Craft skill to your combat check does not add the Craft trait to your check.

Padrig adds Arcane to a Strength check. Hence the check is not made into an Arcane check. Hence Glibness, as worded in WotR, doesn't apply.


Oh I see... Interesting. So I guess they keyword is on character card. But it seems contradictory... But I think I get it, thanks!

On separate thought - the mythic charge abilities just add to the existing strength check. So if a bow says ranged skill and imrijka is ranged : strength... Means the mythic charges apply?

Sovereign Court

Yes, because Imrijka's Ranged checks are Strength checks.


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Wand42er wrote:
Oh I see... Interesting. So I guess they keyword is on character card. But it seems contradictory... But I think I get it, thanks!

Yeah. The keywords are "use" and "add". If a power says "use" your skill, the skill becomes a trait of the check. If a power says "add" your skill, the skill does not become a trait of the check.


To get back to the original question. If you make it through AP1, pick up Mythic Marshal. Because you are using both Strength and Charisma (by way of arcane), you get double the bonus from your mythic tokens. I think... Please correct if I am mistaken.

Pathfinder ACG Developer

"Add your number of mythic charges to your Strength or Charisma check"

You're making a Strength check, or you're making a Charisma check, but you're not making both at the same time.

That said, Marshal is also pretty awesome regardless.


Arg, you right!


Awesome, thanks!


*once* we make it.... The difficulty bump is bluddy awesome thus far..


Marshal was making me wish I'd picked a Strength-based character. Even though I like Dex characters, Trickster doesn't really have the same flair for me.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dave Riley wrote:
Marshal was making me wish I'd picked a Strength-based character. Even though I like Dex characters, Trickster doesn't really have the same flair for me.

Go Champion, then? That's the Str/Dex one, right?


The advantage of Marshal is that if you have multiple marshals (and Marshal looks like the epic path of choice for at least three or four of the chracters) in the same location, you can toss tokens back and forth to each other on almost every role. Nothing else gives that kind of flexibility.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Joshua Birk 898 wrote:
The advantage of Marshal is that if you have multiple marshals (and Marshal looks like the epic path of choice for at least three or four of the chracters) in the same location, you can toss tokens back and forth to each other on almost every role. Nothing else gives that kind of flexibility.

Sure, and that may very well be the most generally useful rider. But it's also got the least interesting 5 charge ability, in my opinion.

Ignoring a difficulty-increasing effect is quite powerful, as well as ignoring the text on a non-villain monster. To use an example from S&S, Mythic Champion Valeros with 5 charges can tell Hirzenosk to shut up and sit down, *and* gets to close the location after defeating him. We haven't seen past AD1 in WotR, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similarly bad monster to deal with later.

Also, ability diversity in a party is pretty important. You've got 4 marshals? Great, you'll be able to handle any Str or Cha problem that comes your way. You need someone to make an Int check? Good luck with that.

I did note that the pretty standard Dex/Wis pairing didn't get an associated Mythic Path, and Hunters/Rangers/observant Rogues need to decide what Dex path they'd want. But here's the thing: Going Trickster with eg RotR Mirasel gives her a big boost to her weakest stat. Before, if she encountered an Int based check, she was hopeless. Now, for the low cost of one Mythic charge, her D4 turns into a D20, and she's got a chance to grab that spell she turned up that Ezren was coveting. Less chance of Sad Ezren, more better. :)


First World Bard wrote:


Also, ability diversity in a party is pretty important. You've got 4 marshals? Great, you'll be able to handle any Str or Cha problem that comes your way. You need someone to make an Int check? Good luck with that.

At first, you would think the exclusive focus on Str and Cha would be a big problem. But when you remember that you get to upgrade your biggest die you need to a d20, a lot of those troubles disappear.


First World Bard wrote:
Joshua Birk 898 wrote:
The advantage of Marshal is that if you have multiple marshals (and Marshal looks like the epic path of choice for at least three or four of the chracters) in the same location, you can toss tokens back and forth to each other on almost every role. Nothing else gives that kind of flexibility.

Sure, and that may very well be the most generally useful rider. But it's also got the least interesting 5 charge ability, in my opinion.

Ignoring a difficulty-increasing effect is quite powerful, as well as ignoring the text on a non-villain monster. To use an example from S&S, Mythic Champion Valeros with 5 charges can tell Hirzenosk to shut up and sit down, *and* gets to close the location after defeating him.

Hirgenzosk doesn't allow a close... even if you manage to get around the fact that Hirgenzosk can't be defeated.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Joshua Birk 898 wrote:


At first, you would think the exclusive focus on Str and Cha would be a big problem. But when you remember that you get to upgrade your biggest die you need to a d20, a lot of those troubles disappear.
Mythic Marshal wrote:
Add your number of mythic charges to your Strength or Charisma check. Then you may expend 1 or more charges. If you do, after you assemble your dice, for each charge expended, replace 1 of your highest non-d20 dice with a d20, and if you succeed at the check, choose another character at your location to get a charge.

That reads to me like you can only spend a charge on a Strength or Charisma check.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Sandslice wrote:

Hirgenzosk doesn't allow a close... even if you manage to get around the fact that Hirgenzosk can't be defeated.

Mythic Champion wrote:

Expend 5 mythic charges to ignore the powers on a non-villain monster you encounter; if the monster is a henchman from a location deck and is defeated, you may attempt to close the location.

But I can defeat him, since I ignore the power that says he can't be defeated. And I get to close, because he's a henchman from a location deck.


First World Bard wrote:
Sandslice wrote:

Hirgenzosk doesn't allow a close... even if you manage to get around the fact that Hirgenzosk can't be defeated.

Mythic Champion wrote:

Expend 5 mythic charges to ignore the powers on a non-villain monster you encounter; if the monster is a henchman from a location deck and is defeated, you may attempt to close the location.

But I can defeat him, since I ignore the power that says he can't be defeated. And I get to close, because he's a henchman from a location deck.

Bah, forgot about that part. But it's a dragon turtle with an ecosystem on its back, and just wants to be left alone :(


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Sandslice wrote:
Bah, forgot about that part. But it's a dragon turtle with an ecosystem on its back, and just wants to be left alone :(

I'd rather leave it alone too. It's just that sometimes the d12 doesn't cooperate.


First World Bard wrote:


That reads to me like you can only spend a charge on a Strength or Charisma check.

Sigh... you can tell i havent spent enough time reading my mythic paths


Here's a few questions I have about Balazar:

Can he take summoned monsters he defeats into his hand? If so, this makes the location where you summon the Corrupted Soldier at the start of your turn (whose name escapes me) a particularly hilarious place for him to go since he could summon and defeat the Soldier, take the Soldier into his hand and then banish him to defeat the next Soldier (which matches its own traits for a bonus), which he then could take right back into his hand. Rinse, repeat until closed.

Also, when someone plays a blessing on a check using Padrig, he would add his Strength die (d6), since it is a Strength check, correct?

Do you get the bonus die using Padrig if both a banished monster and the encountered monster share the Veteran trait?


He can't take summoned monsters into his hand, because they aren't banished when finished; they're returned to the box (unless the summoning card says otherwise.)

When Padrig is involved with the check, it's a Strength check. So blessings add Strength dice as usual.

Veteran is not Basic or Elite, so yes, Padrig applies the matching bonus on Veteran.


Regarding Balazar and summoned monsters, would it make sense to just draw a random monster from the box in place of the defeated summoned monster? It makes sense to me since it appears to be align with the intent of the power (kill a monster, steal its essence).


One of the power feats on his Tyrannomancer role card lets him do just that, so I think you have your answer about doing it pre-AP3. D:


OmegaDestroyer wrote:
Regarding Balazar and summoned monsters, would it make sense to just draw a random monster from the box in place of the defeated summoned monster? It makes sense to me since it appears to be align with the intent of the power (kill a monster, steal its essence).

Check out this power from the Tyrannomancer Roler "Add 1d8 to any check by a character at your location against a summoned monster. (□

When you defeat a summoned monster, you may draw a random monster from the box.)"

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