The DC is equal to the distance you wish to travel – a 5-foot long jump is DC5, etc.
Double the DC if you don’t move at least 10-feet before your attempt.
Total distance jumped can’t exceed your base movement.
Say, I have a character with 40 base movement and +20 Acrobatics.
Say, I have none of the fancy feats that apply to jumping.
The square I am in and those behind me are normal terrain.
My final destination is 8 squares away all of it difficult terrain – say, rubble or knee high water… whatever.
How do I go about getting there, expending the least movement using acrobatic rolls?
In detail, describe the process.
You cannot get there in one move.
You're talking about a standing long jump of 40 feet for a DC of 80. It doesn't look like you can make that roll. Now if you can run 10' before the jump, your DC is only a 30 (because you run 10' then jump the remaining 30). But you said all of the terrain in front of you is difficult terrain so you cannot run through those squares per the rules of difficult terrain.
So, if you want to use two move actions (technically a full-round double move), you would move back 10', then run forward 10' and jump the full 40' for a DC of 40. You need to roll a natural 20 to make it unless you forgot that you get a +4 bonus because your base movement is greater than 30 (I don't know if you counted that into your +20 Acrobatics skill or not).
If you succeed, you have jumped 40' and have used 60' of your total 80' of movement so you can move 20 more feet.
If you fail, you fall prone at a number of feet equal to whatever you rolled, so if you roll a 7, you jump 27 feet and fall prone in the water in that square.
Oh, and watch out - there are other threads here that suggest that at least some GMs might tell you that you cannot jump over difficult terrain.
What are the consequences of wanting to make several 10' (2-square) jumps through difficult terrain?
There is a whole table of acrobatics modifiers for things such as slippery, sandy, etc. These modifiers apply to the square you jump from, not the square you jump to. They apply to the roll, not the DC. So if the GM decides that the difficult terrain counts as, for example, "Severely Obstructed", then you take a -5 penalty on the roll.
In the case of your OP, have a +20 to the roll, a standing jump of 10' has a DC of 20, you're adding 20 but taking a -5 penalty, so +15 to the roll to make these standing jumps. If you beat the DC by enough, you might actually jump 15'. If you fail, you might only go 5'. if you fail by 5 or more (impossible) then you fall prone, but you won't have to worry about that unless your d20 has a zero on it.
So, in this example, if you roll on the d20:
1-4 (result 16-19) You only jump 5'
10-14 (resulting 20-29) You jump 10'
15+ (result 30-34) You jump 15'
You can jump a total of 40 feet (your base movement) per move action so even if you managed 4 consecutive rolls of 15+, you cannot jump the full 60 feet, you are capped at 40 feet total. If you wanted to double move, you could do so, jumping up to a total of 80 feet but no single jump could exceed 40' (assuming you get better rolls somehow).
Edited for clarity.
Thank you Blake. Great info.
I was contemplating the value of talents/feats like Expert Leaper in case you were wondering.
The better you know the rules, and how to take advantage [difficult terrain for example], the better they start looking.
You might find that that feat won't help here as much as you might hope.
Let's see.
With that feet, sticking with the +20 Acrobatics and the -5 penalty for Severely Obstructed, your base DC is only a 10 to jump 10' because you don't need a running start. You can't fail. But you can still cacluate your distance and now it looks like this:
So, in this example, if you roll on the d20:
1-4 (result 16-19) You jump 15'
5-9 (result 20-24) You jump 20'
10-14 (resulting 25-29) You jump 25'
15-19 (result 30-34) You jump 30'
20 (result 35) You jump 35'
But remember, you can only jump 40' in one round. So does it really matter if you make 4 jumps averaging 10' each time or only 2 jumps for, say, 25' and then 15'? In this scenario, it doesn't matter much at all.
But, in a different scenario where that was a 25' ravine, and failing your jump means falling to your death, then Expert Leaper would probably save your life.
? Aren't you limited to 40' per move action, so you can use two move actions to jump 40' each time, or two 20' jumps during each move action?There is a whole table of acrobatics modifiers for things such as slippery, sandy, etc. These modifiers apply to the square you jump from, not the square you jump to. They apply to the roll, not the DC. So if the GM decides that the difficult terrain counts as, for example, "Severely Obstructed", then you take a -5 penalty on the roll.
In the case of your OP, have a +20 to the roll, a standing jump of 10' has a DC of 20, you're adding 20 but taking a -5 penalty, so +15 to the roll to make these standing jumps. If you beat the DC by enough, you might actually jump 15'. If you fail, you might only go 5'. if you fail by 5 or more (impossible) then you fall prone, but you won't have to worry about that unless your d20 has a zero on it.
So, in this example, if you roll on the d20:
1-4 (result 16-19) You only jump 5'
10-14 (resulting 20-19) You jump 10'
15+ (result 30-34) You jump 15'You can jump a total of 40 feet (your base movement) so even if you managed 4 consecutive rolls of 15+, you cannot jump the full 60 feet, you are capped at 40 feet total.
Yes, I should have made it more clear that I was giving him examples of what he could do in a single move action.
So, make 5' leaps through difficult terrain and it doesn't matter. Gotta bet that's going to upset a GM and they'll - no way are you doing that at my table...
Can you over jump? So you wanted to jump 5 feet and rolled a 20. Do you over shoot? Meh, I'm sure I could look that up...and should.
No, you only overshoot if you want to. If it were mandatory, then nobody could jump just 5' over a small bit of terrain without risking jumping much farther and possibly into worse terrain.
Also, it might be worth noting that if you land in difficult terrain, while that has no effect on your acrobatics roll to jump there, it might cause other problems (acrobatics also includes rules for falling prone in certain kinds of rough terrain just because it's rough terrain - this would be an entirely different roll and if you fail the check, you fall prone and end your movement). So the answer is, 5' leaps through difficult terrain might make sense for some kinds of difficult terrain but be utterly impossible in others (e.g. lava) or somewhat risky in others (slippery ground).
Why would they be?
You're only flatfooted when a combat starts. You stop being flatfooted when you get your first turn. So if they're moving in combat, they cannot be flatfooted.
Unless you meant do they lose their DEX bonus to AC doing this? Some acrobatics checks (like walking on narrow surfaces) can make them lose their DEX bonus to AC. Jumping does not.
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Seriously, doesn't Jumping make you lose Dex to AC or make you flatfooted?
Climbing without climbing speed, flying without flying capabilities makes you lose Dex to AC, if I recall the rules correctly.
How is jumping not 'flying' through the air? (On the ground, you have something to use as a leverage tool for moving about and dodge, without wings/flight, good luck dodging.)
Eitherway, if hit while jumping, do you give an individual an additional acrobatics check +damage dealt to fulfill the jump or a DC10 fly check? (taking penalties for lacking flight etc, and loosing 10ft of altitude if failed.)
Say you start 10’ from difficult terrain. +20 Acrobatics, 40 base movement.
Running start - makes you flat footed: (roll 10)+20+10 = 50’ of total movement.
Options: Stop at 40 feet and take a standard action, or move an extra 10’ as part of a double move.
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Now it’s tricky:
If you make another leap, then you are in difficult terrain now. Can’t run.
Are you no longer flat footed? I guess not.
Double the DC to leap 5-feet.
Might even cost 10' to exit the square - difficult terrain.
Say you now roll 10 on a 5’ leap. How far can you move with 30’ of base movement left?
I think 25'. 10' to leave the 1st square to move 5' - leaves 20 feet in the air then land. Total double movement is 75'. Not flat footed. Right...?
Don't forget that you get a +4 bonus for long jumps for every 10 feet of movement over 30, so your minimum jump check is 25, which will get you 10 feet forward without a running start.
Acrobatics checks are do not take an action, so there's nothing to prevent you from making multiple jumps as part of your move as long as you don't jump more than your movement. So "hopping" in 10 foot increments should work. Four 10 foot hops as a standing long jump will cross the distance in a single move.
You are not flatfooted when jumping, only when using Acrobatics to cross a narrow ledge or slippery surface.
(If you want to build a jumping character, 5 levels of monk for High Jump is really hard to beat.)
Seriously, doesn't Jumping make you lose Dex to AC or make you flatfooted?
Climbing without climbing speed, flying without flying capabilities makes you lose Dex to AC, if I recall the rules correctly.
How is jumping not 'flying' through the air? (On the ground, you have something to use as a leverage tool for moving about and dodge, without wings/flight, good luck dodging.)
Eitherway, if hit while jumping, do you give an individual an additional acrobatics check +damage dealt to fulfill the jump or a DC10 fly check? (taking penalties for lacking flight etc, and loosing 10ft of altitude if failed.)
No, it doesn't.
Acrobatics covers three separate actions. The only use of the Acrobatics skill that makes you flat-footed is the first one:
"You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. [...] While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any)." (Emphasis mine.)
The other two uses of Acrobatics, which are described after this one, do not have that text and therefore do not have that side effect.
Regarding the other movement you cite as a precedent: It has nothing to do with "how am I moving?" and everything to do with "what does the skill description say?"
Climb specifically says that you are flat-footed when you use the skill, just like the first use of Acrobatics does.
The Fly skill says "You are not considered flat-footed while flying". It doesn't matter whether you consider jumping to be "moving through the air", since you're not flat footed when flying anyway.
(If you want to build a jumping character, 5 levels of monk for High Jump is really hard to beat.)
Two levels of Ninja can come close.
Monk 5: High Jump Always count as having a running start. Always add level to Acrobatics. Spend 1 ki to add +20 Acrobatics. You also have +4 from fast movement.
Ninja 2 w/Acrobatic Master: When you have ki, you count as having a running start. Spend 1 ki to add +20 Acrobatics.
As a dip, the Ninja is easier. At Ninja 10, the DCs to jump get halved. If they get the tick High Jumper, the DCs are also halved. Time the dip right, and get the tick at the same time you get Acrobatic Master. Go for Ninja 10 with both tricks, and now the DCs are 1/4th.
/cevah
You can be a long jumper.
you cannot be a kangaroo.
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You can be a long jumper.
you cannot be a kangaroo.
Say you start 10’ from difficult terrain. +20 Acrobatics, 40 base movement.
Running start - makes you flat footed: (roll 10)+20+10 = 50’ of total movement.
Options: Stop at 40 feet and take a standard action, or move an extra 10’ as part of a double move.
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Now it’s tricky:
If you make another leap, then you are in difficult terrain now. Can’t run.
Are you no longer flat footed? I guess not.
Double the DC to leap 5-feet.
Might even cost 10' to exit the square - difficult terrain.Say you now roll 10 on a 5’ leap. How far can you move with 30’ of base movement left?
I think 25'. 10' to leave the 1st square to move 5' - leaves 20 feet in the air then land. Total double movement is 75'. Not flat footed. Right...?
A running start does not make you flat footed unless you take run action. All a running start means is that you move 2 squares in the direction of the jump before jumping.
A running start does not make you flat footed unless you take run action. All a running start means is that you move 2 squares in the direction of the jump before jumping.
Thanks. That dawned on me much later.
You can be a long jumper.
you cannot be a kangaroo.
Why not?
Or a more concrete question:
A certain scenario has a test where the PCs have to cross a pond by leaping from post to post. If I have the acrobatics bonus to make the DC and enough movement, why can't I cross three-four poles as a single move action?
Obviously, I can't have a running start after the first jump so the DC would double, but I don't see anything in the acrobatics skill description or the general movement description that prevents me from making more than one acrobatics check in a move action. Nor do I see anything that implies that making an acrobatics check to jump ends my move action.
Is there some text somewhere else that I'm missing?
(BTW, multiple acrobatics checks is how I would describe the "doing handsprings down the hall" movement in game terms.)
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Seriously, doesn't Jumping make you lose Dex to AC or make you flatfooted?
Climbing without climbing speed, flying without flying capabilities makes you lose Dex to AC, if I recall the rules correctly.
How is jumping not 'flying' through the air? (On the ground, you have something to use as a leverage tool for moving about and dodge, without wings/flight, good luck dodging.)
Eitherway, if hit while jumping, do you give an individual an additional acrobatics check +damage dealt to fulfill the jump or a DC10 fly check? (taking penalties for lacking flight etc, and loosing 10ft of altitude if failed.)No, it doesn't.
Acrobatics covers three separate actions. The only use of the Acrobatics skill that makes you flat-footed is the first one:
"You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. [...] While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any)." (Emphasis mine.)The other two uses of Acrobatics, which are described after this one, do not have that text and therefore do not have that side effect.
Regarding the other movement you cite as a precedent: It has nothing to do with "how am I moving?" and everything to do with "what does the skill description say?"
Climb specifically says that you are flat-footed when you use the skill, just like the first use of Acrobatics does.
The Fly skill says "You are not considered flat-footed while flying". It doesn't matter whether you consider jumping to be "moving through the air", since you're not flat footed when flying anyway.
Thanks, this cleared things up.
But is there an equivalent rule (to the one below) applying for accrobatics concerning 'being hit in the air/while jumping'?
The Fly skill states:
"Attacked While Flying: You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature's movement."
"Collision While Flying: If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage."
You can be a long jumper.
you cannot be a kangaroo.
Why not?
Because you need to move through a square. You can't treat the square that you land in and take off from like a point when its area you need to go over. If the posts aren't difficult terrain you're fine, if they are you have to go through the squares at half speed.