Looking for advice with a thought excercise which is not uncommon but usually done with bards, arcanes and divines. Thanks to Unchained and other source books the rogue has now a greater choice.
TLDR All rogue party
Premise:
You turn up for a new campaign and everyone, after planets align and ancient Arcadian prophecies came to be, has decided to play rogue. You decide to go ahead and must brave a paizo AP.
Goal:
You must take on an Adventure Path with only rogues
Conditions:
-Unchained Rogue, Ninja, Variant multiclassing, allowed
-All paizo published content allowed (leadership and usual offenders are not)
-20 point buy because your DM is amused at your futility
-In case of death new pcs are rogues too
-Avoid normal multiclassing
What is your all rogue party composed of? No need for full builds but archetypes and how to get around problems is important. What party niche do they fill (face, arcane, etc)?
Ive a few ideas but Im sure as good scoundrels we can find a way to twist things to our advantage.
Skim or search the past month or so of posts, this topic has been done before. Lots of good ideas in the other thread.
Skim or search the past month or so of posts, this topic has been done before. Lots of good ideas in the other thread.
Searching a bit now, if theyre up to date I'll capitulate.
Edit: ah indeed there are, thought the last I saw was the bard one. Thanks!
Relevant thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4eu?All-Rogue-Party#1
Wished it had more unchained in it, since its so good for rogues.
Felt bad about pointing you to the search feature: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4eu&page=1?All-Rogue-Party
That's the one I was thinking of.
Felt bad about pointing you to the search feature: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4eu&page=1?All-Rogue-Party
That's the one I was thinking of.
Yes I promptly went to it and found the thread. Often use it, and the time I dont, well, obvious I shouldve. Very much hope to do this so thanks for the tip.
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Conditions:
-Unchained Rogue, Ninja, Variant multiclassing, allowed
-All paizo published content allowed (leadership and usual offenders are not)
-20 point buy because your DM is amused at your futility
-In case of death new pcs are rogues too
-Avoid normal multiclassing
What about Slayers? They're a hybrid who is a partial rogue. It'd be nice to have one full BAB character for manuvers.
Really - the key against beefy opponents would be getting opponents flatfooted - then they'd explode.
Just make sure at least one character gets Greater Feint / TWF feint. By 9 they can give up an attack to make their opponent flatfooted for a turn against everyone.
A ninja with Moonlight Stalker Feint/Greater Feint doesn't need to give up an attack - but it only works every other round since they're already using a swift for invis.
Against mooks - have an unchained rogue go the sniper route and take out straglers - suckering them into ambushes etc. Alchemical items can be handy for such things.
Lots of hit & runs - no clunky fighters or wheezy wizards to slow you down - guerrilla tactics. (not to be confused with the druid group's gorilla tactics)
Lots of hit & runs - no clunky fighters or wheezy wizards to slow you down - guerrilla tactics. (not to be confused with the druid group's gorilla tactics)
If the druids awaken the gorillas, they could take levels in rogue and then you would have guerilla gorillas.
(Yes, that was a six-inch tap-in putt of a joke, but it still needed saying.)
Ghorrin Redblade
1. Counterfeit Mage Rogue
2. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
3. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
4. Underground Chemist Rogue
5. Thug/Scout Rogue
Stealth Synergy Teamwork feat and high UMD scores all around
Pretty much what I was thinking too. Feints, Stealths and being the sneaky f****rs you're meant to . Get ambushed? Invis/Stealth, regroup, prepare, go in and kill. Slayers would be a good tank like character.
As mentioned by Jaunt, there is a fantastic thread, albeit with less clear constrictions but very much in the spirit, with many good ideas.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4eu?All-Rogue-Party
Someone get the linkbot.
Really - the key against beefy opponents would be getting opponents flatfooted - then they'd explode.
Unless they're constructs, or undead, plant, etc etc etc
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Really - the key against beefy opponents would be getting opponents flatfooted - then they'd explode.Unless they're constructs, or undead, plant, etc etc etcBut Constructs, Undead, and Plants are all susceptible to Sneak Attack. They would explode too.
Elementals, Swarms, and Oozes, on the other hand....
Yeah - those 3 would definitely be the rogue group's weaknesses. But that's pretty much inherent - and the GM should boost their CRs appropriately. Either that - or allow some ability to allow partial SA against them. (I seem to remember something like that in 3.5 - though that may have been undead only - back when they were immune to SA.)
In the same vein - perhaps make a campaign rule upping the cost of Fortification.
Wait, am I thinking in D&D terms again? I swear that constructs and undead were immune, plants I was talking out of my ass though.
EDIT: Well blow me down. I disagree with constructs with the exception of flesh alchemical and clockwork, but, so be it.
I've used a group high STR rouges with the bandit archetype and the assault leader rouge talent as bad guys in a campaign before. If you ambush your enemies in a small space, you can kill a few of them before the fight even starts. A one level dip in barbarian is also very useful for that kind of fighting if it's allowed. Extra health, taking extra rage power can get you reckless abandon, and you don't need much rage to jump out of the woods and gank someone while flanking and sneak attacking.
1. Counterfeit Mage Rogue
2. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
3. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
4. Underground Chemist Rogue
5. Thug/Scout RogueStealth Synergy Teamwork feat and high UMD scores all around
Very Cool...mine was similar:
1. Counterfeit Mage Rogue
2. Underground Chemist Rogue
3. Tengu Swordmaster Rogue
4. 1/2 Orc Skulking Slayer Rogue
5. Sniper/Scout Rogue
1. Counterfeit Mage Rogue
2. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
3. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
4. Underground Chemist Rogue
5. Thug/Scout RogueStealth Synergy Teamwork feat and high UMD scores all around
Very Cool...mine was similar:
1. Counterfeit Mage Rogue
2. Underground Chemist Rogue
3. Tengu Swordmaster Rogue
4. 1/2 Orc Skulking Slayer Rogue
5. Sniper/Scout Rogue
hi5
dang I forgot about the Tengu racial archetype, that is a good one
I am not sold on the Sniper though, it is kinda an all-or-nothing build, where either your damage is crazy good or practically non-existent
1. Counterfeit Mage Rogue
2. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
3. Swashbuckler/Scout Rogue
4. Underground Chemist Rogue
5. Thug/Scout RogueStealth Synergy Teamwork feat and high UMD scores all around
Very Cool...mine was similar:
1. Counterfeit Mage Rogue
2. Underground Chemist Rogue
3. Tengu Swordmaster Rogue
4. 1/2 Orc Skulking Slayer Rogue
5. Sniper/Scout Roguehi5
dang I forgot about the Tengu racial archetype, that is a good one
I am not sold on the Sniper though, it is kinda an all-or-nothing build, where either your damage is crazy good or practically non-existent
Yeah you are right about sniper...and the skulking slayer isnt what I remembered...I guess I would toss in your Scout/Thug rogue in there in place of the Sniper and call it a day.
Mine's fairly similar... I'd probably go with something like:
- kitsune ninja. face skills/disguise and UMD, realistic likeness.
- tiefling counterfeit mage, VMC magus. Pragmatic Activator/UMD, no benefit from spellstrike but some good arcana options for a largely Int focused character.
- half-Orc scout/thug, VMC barbarian. Str based falchion wielder, dump Int and Cha, Str>Con>Dex>Wis, rage.
- human sniper. Ranged combat expert (human cause you need the extra feat).
- musetouched carnivalist, VMC bard. Inspire courage comes on line around when you really start to feel that medium BAB and will help everyone out (and another really solid UMD)
I feel like an all fighter party might be even tougher... Obviously combat would be more straightforward/easier, but with precious little skill support and a much harder time getting good UMD everything besides combat is going to be a struggle...
I feel like an all fighter party might be even tougher... Obviously combat would be more straightforward/easier, but with precious little skill support and a much harder time getting good UMD everything besides combat is going to be a struggle...
Using things like Lore Warden + Pragmatic Activator should let you get by.
It wouldn't be easy, however.
I think it might not actually be possible?
Rise of the runelords you need magic, at least.
Maybe wrath of the righteous, because you get mythic and you could do it with 4 commoners
Eldritch Raider and Counterfeit Mage combine, giving a lot of magic.
What specificly required magic for you? Spoiler it please.
