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There's literally to much stuff that is baked into the game that makes spells to powerful and martials to weak. As this very thread shows, the means of shutting down a caster amounts to "try something and hope the caster didn't make themselves immune to that".Not before you switch over to me, you won't. It's half the reason I'm inevitable.The wonderful thing about threads like this and others is when people point out all these grey area and/or broken spell combinations I can add to my list of "things to edit or remove in our game."
And you told me that I'd never be able to get through all the spells! :)
Maybe, maybe not. Mostly I keep the list updated and the links active so when people ask "Why can't I use X?" I can point to the threads and they'll understand completely.
Just because something is broken or wonky doesn't mean you have to use it.
You keep saying that but that doesn't make it true. I've found that not playing with people who want to wander in grey areas or break the game corrects many of these "problems." The rest can be fixed with "No, that's stupid/broken/not cool. Move on."
Despite posts to the contrary, you can really say no. It works!
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You keep saying that but that doesn't make it true. I've found that not playing with people who want to wander in grey areas or break the game corrects many of these "problems." The rest can be fixed with "No, that's stupid/broken/not cool. Move on."Really because I have found that just using the spells in the CRB without applying any sort of grey areas demonstrates an enormous gulf between what martial characters can achieve and what casters can do.
It doesn't take much looking to see that someone who can communicate with the dead, raise skeletal armies, learn the secrets of the ancients or teleport across the world in the blink of an eye might possibly be a bit more versatile or effective than someone who has nothing much more than a pointy stick and some skill points.
There is a reason Pathfinder is often renamed Casterfinder.
Renamed where?
And yes, magic is more versatile, and has been for a while. I'm often confused why this is brought up, like it is some great revelation that a character that can have a god grant their wishes or alter reality and/or harness the powers of the universe are more powerful than a guy with a sword. Holy $#@^. What's next, water is wet?
There have been a lot of games with magic users over the years and in the vast majority, spell casters usually have an edge over martials. This isn't a new thing that Pathfinder dreamed up just to mess with people.
Lastly, if you have problems with the system or what magic can do, you can alter it for your game. Again, use that experience to make the game that you want instead of waiting to see if Whichever Game Company is going to do it for you. Paizo or WOTC or whomever isn't coming to your house to tell you that you are doing it wrong.
There's no point to discuss Explosive Runes against a Barbarian when they have no recourse for Limited Wish -> Geas.
Believe me, I've checked.
That said, if AM BARBARIAN can figure out a way to deal with standard action Geas without taking Profession (Lawyer), I would be greatly pleased to hear it.
There's no point to discuss Explosive Runes against a Barbarian when they have no recourse for Limited Wish -> Geas.
Believe me, I've checked.
That said, if AM BARBARIAN can figure out a way to deal with standard action Geas without taking Profession (Lawyer), I would be greatly pleased to hear it.
Wouldn't a potion of Suppress Charms and Compulsions work?
Ah, digging through splats to find a way of not auto-losing to a CRB spell combo. Core be balanced, yo.
There's no point to discuss Explosive Runes against a Barbarian when they have no recourse for Limited Wish -> Geas.
Believe me, I've checked.
That said, if AM BARBARIAN can figure out a way to deal with standard action Geas without taking Profession (Lawyer), I would be greatly pleased to hear it.
By wiping the floor with the caster, taking a nap and sundering the spell. Not necessarily in that order.
It's language dependent. He can just wear ear plugs.
Edit: Disclaimer - I think self-imposed deafness would trump a language dependent spell, but haven't checked.
If the spell fails if the target can't understand you, then it absolutely should fail if the target can't even hear you.
Second edit: there we go!
Language-Dependent: A language-dependent spell uses intelligible language as a medium for communication. If the target cannot understand or hear what the caster of a language-dependent spell says, the spell has no effect, even if the target fails its saving throw.
If you can't hear the caster, then limited wish -> geas fails outright, just like a suggestion spell would.
Hmmm. The 3Cp earplugs don't actually do it, because they don't deafen you. Stupid cheap earplugs!
I imagine AM BARBARIAN is hardcore enough to take a needle to his eardrums, though.
Yeah but why bother? Congratulations, you've imposed a -3 penalty to his ludicrous ability scores accept this eight bajillion damage to the groin as your reward.
Wouldn't a potion of Suppress Charms and Compulsions work?Ah, digging through splats to find a way of not auto-losing to a CRB spell combo. Core be balanced, yo.
Getting Protection from X up beforehand will protect against casters of that alignment, a potion of remove curse will cure it.
a potion of remove curse will cure it.
No, it won't.
"A remove curse spell ends a geas/quest spell only if its caster level is at least two higher than your caster level."
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There's no point to discuss Explosive Runes against a Barbarian when they have no recourse for Limited Wish -> Geas.
Believe me, I've checked.
That said, if AM BARBARIAN can figure out a way to deal with standard action Geas without taking Profession (Lawyer), I would be greatly pleased to hear it.
I was under the impression that it was up for debate whether or not using Limited Wish to emulate Geas could be done as a standard action.
After all - in Limited Wish it says that you can duplicate a spell - not duplicate the effects of a spell - and part of the Geas spell is the 10min casting time. (At the very least - debatably.)
There's no point to discuss Explosive Runes against a Barbarian when they have no recourse for Limited Wish -> Geas.
Believe me, I've checked.
That said, if AM BARBARIAN can figure out a way to deal with standard action Geas without taking Profession (Lawyer), I would be greatly pleased to hear it.
ASSUMING BARBARIAN NOT HAVE SPELL TURNING AND AM THROWING BACK AT CASTY? (AM VERY GOOD POSSIBILITY, THIS BEEN THING FOR BARBARIAN SINCE BEFORE THREAD AM TWINKLE IN MOTHER THREAD EYE)
PUNCH SELF IN FACE, SUNDER SPELL, SMASH CASTY.
AM ABLE TO NEGATE LIMITED WISH WITH ONE PART OF FULL ATTACK. AM MORE EVIDENCE OF BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN DESTRUCITY.
BESIDES, BARBARIAN AM ENGINEER. WHY NEED PROFESSION LAWYER WHEN AM ABLE SUNDER WAY OUT OF JAIL, WRECK JAIL ON WAY OUT?
I was under the impression that it was up for debate whether or not using Limited Wish to emulate Geas could be done as a standard action.
After all - in Limited Wish it says that you can duplicate a spell - not duplicate the effects of a spell - and part of the Geas spell is the 10min casting time. (At the very least - debatably.)
It's not. Limited Wish has (See Spell) for things that vary depending on what spell you cast. Cast time is not one of those.
ASSUMING BARBARIAN NOT HAVE SPELL TURNING AND AM THROWING BACK AT CASTY? (AM VERY GOOD POSSIBILITY, THIS BEEN THING FOR BARBARIAN SINCE BEFORE THREAD AM TWINKLE IN MOTHER THREAD EYE)
PUNCH SELF IN FACE, SUNDER SPELL, SMASH CASTY.
AM ABLE TO NEGATE LIMITED WISH WITH ONE PART OF FULL ATTACK. AM MORE EVIDENCE OF BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN DESTRUCITY.
BESIDES, BARBARIAN AM ENGINEER. WHY NEED PROFESSION LAWYER WHEN AM ABLE SUNDER WAY OUT OF JAIL, WRECK JAIL ON WAY OUT?
The Geas order would most certainly prevent you from Spell Sundering yourself.
Apparently we are in Anzyr's world where he can add in his contingencies whenever to deal with the same AM BARBARIAN tactic of Smash face.
In the "Real" Golarion, I feel it's more likely of seeing a 20th level Barbarian than a 20th lvl wizard given low level wizards are way more dependent on others than a barbarian is.
back to the original point, to shut down a caster you hit them early and often. They can't cast forever.
Actually, I have a build, unlike AM Barbarian. And those are my contingencies. And Wizards have less need for party members then Barbarians at every level of play. They do have the same need for party members as the Barbarian for the first 4 levels, but after that it the Wizard has far less need for a party then a Barbarian does.
Though, amusingly, you can still be taken out by a spell sunder.
5th level wizard Anzyr is condesxending in the local bar. There is a group of adventurers there consisting of 4 5th level members (use most optimized builds from the guides cause Anzyr will be optimized), Ranger, Monk, Barbarian and Wizard. They take offense and want words out side or he apologise.
Are you shut down then Anzyr or do you let it go to blows?
See I'm glad you brought this stuff up. I figured the issue here was one of system mastery, but was not sure. So let's cover your points and boost your system mastery at the same time (win/win!)You may have noticed I said you required a 7th level spell in addition to a 9th. That spell is called Plane Shift. Once you Astral Project into the Astral Plane *from your...
Again, you can only plane shift FROM the material plane:
You project your astral self onto the Astral Plane, leaving your physical body behind on the Material Plane in a state of suspended animation.
Next, thanks to Aroden's Spellbane (cast potentially 2 days ago with extend) you can't be hit with Greater Dispel or more importantly, Mage's Disjunction and Antimagic Field. So as you can see your worries are groundless. And now you know! And knowing is half the battle!
Which doesn't prevent dispelling the Spellbane, as it only prevents stuff from functioning within it, not stuff targeting it.
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5th level wizard Anzyr is condesxending in the local bar. There is a group of adventurers there consisting of 4 5th level members (use most optimized builds from the guides cause Anzyr will be optimized), Ranger, Monk, Barbarian and Wizard. They take offense and want words out side or he apologise.
Are you shut down then Anzyr or do you let it go to blows?
He does his only trick, dumping a bag of paper he claims to be explosive runes on the floor and orders the barkeeper to dispell them.
See I'm glad you brought this stuff up. I figured the issue here was one of system mastery, but was not sure. So let's cover your points and boost your system mastery at the same time (win/win!)You may have noticed I said you required a 7th level spell in addition to a 9th. That spell is called Plane Shift. Once you Astral Project into the Astral Plane *from your...
Again, you can only plane shift FROM the material plane:
You project your astral self onto the Astral Plane, leaving your physical body behind on the Material Plane in a state of suspended animation.Next, thanks to Aroden's Spellbane (cast potentially 2 days ago with extend) you can't be hit with Greater Dispel or more importantly, Mage's Disjunction and Antimagic Field. So as you can see your worries are groundless. And now you know! And knowing is half the battle!Which doesn't prevent dispelling the Spellbane, as it only prevents stuff from functioning within it, not stuff targeting it.
The spell does not require you cast it on the material plane, but if you wish to use general language as a sticking point, then you still simply need to Plane Shift back to the Material Plane from the Astral Plane.
Furthermore, spellbane prevents that magic from functioning in the area. The spell itself is inside that area so the Dispel will not function.
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It's not. Limited Wish has (See Spell) for things that vary depending on what spell you cast. Cast time is not one of those.I was under the impression that it was up for debate whether or not using Limited Wish to emulate Geas could be done as a standard action.
After all - in Limited Wish it says that you can duplicate a spell - not duplicate the effects of a spell - and part of the Geas spell is the 10min casting time. (At the very least - debatably.)
Let's see -
A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, a limited wish can do any of the following things.
•Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
•Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
•Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
•Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 4th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
•Undo the harmful effects of many spells, such as insanity.
•Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a -7 penalty on its next saving throw.A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal, but the save DC is for a 7th-level spell. When a limited wish spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 1,000 gp, you must provide that component (in addition to the 1,500 gp diamond component for this spell).
I don't see anything about the spell you duplicate other than that they get saving throws/resistance as the spell, but 7th level DCs and that you need to supply material components.
It still duplicates the spell - not the spell's effects. Part of the Geas spell is the 10 min casting time. If part of the Geas spell is the 10 min casting time (I certainly believe it is - but that is the one reasonable argument I can see against it) - then by RAW - using Limited Wish to cast Geas would take 10 min - or arguably a standard action PLUS 10 min.
It's possible I missed something - it wouldn't be the first time - but I don't see it.