A Tetori will happily ignore that Ring and crush your spine regardless.+1 for being the first to respond! (Thanks)
He actually has a Ring of Freedom of Movement, so grapple's a no-go, but other combat maneuvers might work if done correctly...
Noted, but again, this thread is all about what The Beastmass critters can do. I'll make another post some other day where he'll take on character builds. Also, the Tetori would have to beat his initiative and meet him in the air first. ;)
*Shrug* He's looking at the Beastmass here. DC 27 is as high as it gets. He's got a +26 Will save without the Dragonbane Sticks; he only fails on a 1. He has a .25% chance of being killed outright by a Disjunction, compared to a 100% chance of being killed outright by an Antimagic Field.
** spoiler omitted **
EDIT: Appears that the post I was responding to got deleted. Still some somewhat useful data here though, so I'm going to leave this.
Sorry about that. I view the Beastmass as rather poor high level opposition for optimized 20th level characters now that I've taken a closer look at it. Stronger examples are to be found in the closing chapters of the higher-end APs, such as your spoiler, which includes a BBEG that has had its eye on the PC the entire campaign. The GM is supposed to adapt said BBEG to target the soft spots of the PCs. ;)
It's a nice build, I've noticed a few things though:
In beastmass, average rolls will dominate.
With that in mind, the cloak of displacement (minor) will not really function, in actual play it may have some effect, for the challenge however, not so much.
The Dragon Divination sticks will more than likely give the bonus to Reflex saves (and they all pick the same save as per their description).
The monstrous physique spell only allows for monstrous humanoids and not magical beasts.
Find ways to negate surprise rounds. (The Variant Multiclass system in Unchanined looks interesting)
Looking through the build, you may want to find ways around energy drain and negative levels.
I'm going to agree on the Beastmass being... flawed at best (for example, looking back at it... nobody can throw a Disjunction, barring Miracle or Wish being interpreted above their normal power).
And Beastmass 2.0 based on folks like the spoiler would be cool, if unlikely to actually be plausible due to the massive set of spoiler tags.
But my core point is more that, against this character, the Antimagic Field is more reliable than the Disjunction. And that's going to be true at every DC.
That wouldn't necessarily be true in the general case (I'm not going to argue that the AMF is a better spell), but here, The Hexborn is only alive due to the influence of magic, due to his pathetic Str score. If his Belt and Nacreous Grey Sphere ioun stone are both taken offline, he dies immediately. So, Antimagic Field's guaranteed negation is very strong. And The Hexborn has to get close, especially against enemies like the Gold Dragon (can't be Slumbered, strong odds to land the save against Icy Tomb), so AMF's range is not an issue.
What about targeted dispels on said items? Many of the beastmass critters (not all - just the nastier ones) have both more than sufficient skill bonuses to identify the magic items in question and the ability in one form or another to turn those items off?
What about targeted dispels on said items? Many of the beastmass critters (not all - just the nastier ones) have both more than sufficient skill bonuses to identify the magic items in question and the ability in one form or another to turn those items off?That would end things rather quickly and messily. As would Sundering them, though that's not necessarily easy.
Realistically, only the Balor is likely to go for that tactic. And it has the problem of requiring two standard actions-- though to be fair, I'm not sure how effective this guy would be after you shut down his anti-aging stone. I'm not up to running the numbers of his encumbrance there.
If you can cripple him by cutting him to 6 Str, then the Gold Dragon, Pit Fiend, and Solar win as soon as they get a turn, the Balor wins on his second casting, the Tarn Linnorm wins if he can get to melee range and Sunder once (actually, if he can get to melee and full attack, two Sunders is a kill anyway), and the Shoggoth... is still a joke.
Shoggoths are situational monsters at their best. A single shoggoth against any optimized 20th level character is just another source of XP. ;)
A thought, Wombat: Why do you have a Headband of Mental Superiority? If you dropped that down to Mental Prowess you'd free up 54,000 (or 27,000 if you crafted it). That's enough to drop a Wish on +1 Str, so at least AMF doesn't autokill you. Though I'm not sure if you'd be effective with only 1 Str.
I like the idea, but I'm not sure how to implement it. The Headband of Mental Superiority was to allow his CHA to be high enough to have a wizard cohort who could cast 9th level spells. I guess I could redo the numbers later today and see if I could pull some stuff around. Right now, though, I'm seriously debating if a -6 to all of my physical stats is really worth a +3 to the mental ones...
It's a nice build,
Thanks! He's getting there haha. I started really getting into Pathfinder about 5 months ago when he started out as a Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight and he's evolved a lot since then. Still working out the kinks, but hopefully he'll be less of a glass cannon and more of an Adamantine Howitzer by the time we're done here.
In beastmass, average rolls will dominate.
With that in mind, the cloak of displacement (minor) will not really function, in actual play it may have some effect, for the challenge however, not so much.
Yeah I hadn't thought about that. Just for continuity's sake, it's actually the Blur spell, but yeah your doctrine is sound. Average rolls would have them beat it every time.
The Dragon Divination sticks will more than likely give the bonus to Reflex saves (and they all pick the same save as per their description).
Yeah, but I wasn't sure how to write that so I just put it in parentheses. Of you take a look under the 'Important Item stuff' section, I talk a little more about them.
The monstrous physique spell only allows for monstrous humanoids and not magical beasts.
That...I didn't know. But is a flying sea monkey thing not humanoid enough? What? Too munchkin-y?!? All right, fine. Noted.
Find ways to negate surprise rounds. (The Variant Multiclass system in Unchanined looks interesting)
Yeah under the 'Rules' section, I said that I would be running The Beastmass 3 times. Once with Surprise rounds for me, once without any at all, and once with surprise rounds for them. This was to help balance out the initiative.
Looking through the build, you may want to find ways around energy drain and negative levels.
Considered it, but at the time I built him, he was a lot stronger, so I was figuring that very few things could touch him. But, thankfully, my eyes have been opened regarding a lot of his weaknesses, so that's good. Any ideas on how best to overcome it?
You're right on the Dragonbane sticks; those effectively only add +3 since they're overwriting the Luckstone.
Not only that. They only ever give a bonus to one stat, never two or all three.
These eight rune-engraved dragon bones may be used as a divine focus for augury. They add 5% to the chance to successfully cast augury and divination. The bearer of the set gains a +3 luck bonus on one type of saving throw (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will), determined randomly each day. If a creature carries multiple sets of dragonbone divination sticks, all of them provide a bonus on the same saving throw.
Yeah I agree, but as stated before, the bonus wasn't included in all three, it was just implied that it would be given to one of them. In my original post, I put the bonuses in parentheses to simulate this, then explained it in a later section. Since you're not the first to mention this, maybe it was unclear in the original post. When I finish the Google Doc, I'll clean it up a bit. Any ways to kill him? Any other improvements?
The balor in Beastmass' second encounter as written has a surprise round, knows all that there is to know about the victim character in question and the character awakens from between 5 and 6 hours of unconsciousness at a distance of 10' from the balor, prone, with the balor enjoying "higher ground". Said balor also knows not to waste its time at first using Power Attack except when sundering.
The balor's surprise round seizes the character's floating ioun stones via quickened telekinesis while its standard action sunders the otherworldly kimono, the one thing that the magus has that the balor can't ignore. The magus wins initiative, has to reposition to a non-prone position against a foe with higher ground, and promptly loses his rapier to another sunder from the balor as its attack of opportunity. The balor ignores the magus' hexes and automatically succeeds on its saving throws against any spell the magus hits it with. At best the magus can deal 80-90 points of cold damage to it a round. However ...
Neither party can retreat - and the balor will probably prevail as it proceeds to sunder the magus' ring of protection, belt of perfection, headband of mental superiority, ring of freedom of movement, amulet of natural armor and has the magus grappled in its whip without itself being considered grappled.
At the beginning of its second round, the balor, now only dealing with a feeble venerable elf wrapped in the coils of its flaming whip, is either imploded or chopped into giblets and eaten.
+1. This is the first post that really captures the essence of what I was looking for. I'll post an in-depth response when I'm back at my computer probably later today. Thanks Turin!
You're welcome, WombattheDaniel.
If you can crunch the numbers, you want to use the "implanted ioun stones" option to see if it is possible to implant them with ease. This should make the magus a much more viable build (if he can pull of the checks - they're not easy) as a LOT of higher-CR critters, especially outsiders, have the ability to steal and/or target those free floating basically defenseless stones that are currently too crucial to the character's survivability.
Strength is a major Achilles' heel - you should have at least a 1 Strength without items, otherwise you're unconscious and unable to act. Even if dealing with heavy encumbrance at least you have some ability to do something. I'd recommend converting the celestial shield to a buckler as it accounts for roughly a fourth of the encumbrance at 7 out of 31 pounds. With just snagging the nacreous grey ioun stone and sundering your +6 belt of physical perfection, assuming a targeted dispel 'restoring' the elf back to being an elf, you have a 7 Strength, 9 Con and are carrying a Medium load - it gets worse if you're Tiny. That starts a rapid descent into dogfood during the course of the balor's 7 melee attacks, resulting in being grappled without effective recourse on your end.
Dude. Yeah I had no idea that was possible. I love it. Is there a limit to how many embedded ioun stones one can have? Any link for further reading?
Yeah as far as strength goes, I'm looking into some other options. I'm thinking I could switch some of the wishes around and get an inherent +2 there, but again, I'm away from the computer, so my resources are limited.
Dude. Yeah I had no idea that was possible. I love it. Is there a limit to how many embedded ioun stones one can have? Any link for further reading?
Yeah as far as strength goes, I'm looking into some other options. I'm thinking I could switch some of the wishes around and get an inherent +2 there, but again, I'm away from the computer, so my resources are limited.
The simplest solution is to be Old instead of Venerable. Your Int is odd-numbered, so everything based on Int doesn't change when it drops by 1 to an even number. Losing a point on Will is your least concern.
The source material you would have to own to reference the implanting process is not open license, so it's not on the interwebz (or shouldn't be). Lemme see if I can dig it up.
How did you double the luck bonuses? I couldn't figure it out on the quick.
Dude. Yeah I had no idea that was possible. I love it. Is there a limit to how many embedded ioun stones one can have? Any link for further reading?
Yeah as far as strength goes, I'm looking into some other options. I'm thinking I could switch some of the wishes around and get an inherent +2 there, but again, I'm away from the computer, so my resources are limited.
The simplest solution is to be Old instead of Venerable. Your Int is odd-numbered, so everything based on Int doesn't change when it drops by 1 to an even number. Losing a point on Will is your least concern.
The source material you would have to own to reference the implanting process is not open license, so it's not on the interwebz (or shouldn't be). Lemme see if I can dig it up.
How did you double the luck bonuses? I couldn't figure it out on the quick.
With the Fate's Favored trait, but it doesn't double it, just increases all luck bonuses by 1.
As far as old vs Venerable, I love it. That will likely be incorporated in the 2.0 version.
Implanting ioun stones requires significant skill with Heal and Knowledge (arcana) in addition to being able to deal with taking nonlethal damage from starvation and thirst for the two more important stones. (I'd recommend getting a tattoo ring of sustenance instead of the clear prism ioun stone. Costs 3,750 gp instead of 5,000 gp and no one can blow it up without maiming you in the process. And let's face it, if you're getting maimed, you're boned anyway.)
The resonant powers for ioun stones are likely but in no way guaranteed. Only 75% of the time does an ioun stone have one when inserted into a wayfinder - this drops to a mere 25% likelihood of a resonant power for cracked and flawed stones. A quibble, but one to consider nonetheless, although not an issue for this particular character.
The details are found in this product here. In a nutshell, you have to succeed on a DC 20 Charisma check after at least 3 days' fasting. You can't take 10 on this check, although you can increase your odds of success by as much as a +5 circumstance bonus by extending the fasting period by another 5 days. During this time you will have to endure possible starvation and thirst unless already addressed via sustenance. If successful, you then either have your buddy do the surgery (DC 25 Heal check) or do it yourself (DC 30 Heal check) alongside a DC 25 Knowledge (arcana) check.
Given the set up, it is just a matter of in-game time to perform the implantations so long as you have at least a passable Charisma bonus and are able to survive as much as 6 points of Constitution damage. Implanted stones cannot be attuned to a wayfinder, so any stones you want to gain that benefit from are a no-go for being implanted.
Implanted ioun stones cannot be stolen nor sundered. Typically they are implanted in arms, hands or your head. Barring being dismembered or decapitated (killing you anyway), your stones stay with you. The current number of ioun stones here seems doable, as I don't recall the specific limit on how many one can implant.
If you are killed, even if you have something like a clone or the like, or are brought back elsewhere via resurrection et al, the stones remain with your carcass.
My reading of quickened spells, and the way we've been running it at our tables since forever, is that a quickened spell or spell-like ability works just fine during a surprise round. Edit: otherwise, you shouldn't be able to take immediate actions, in our tables' opinions. And it goes both ways, so everyone has been fine with it.
Sundering the belt won't kill him, although it will leave him in a bad state, no question.
Heck, even if the balor gets just ONE shot, sundering that nacreous grey sphere ioun stone is absolutely the priority target. Unless the OP character implants that stone, it's the first thing to get either destroyed or stolen.
The kimono was the higher priority target as it gives the magus a 1/day no save maze and accounts for his only source of resistance bonus on saving throws. A balor is intelligent, but it's not intelligent enough to automatically make its way out particularly fast - under the rules of the challenge, it is trapped within for the full 10 minutes. Since it has no other way out, it's only remaining option if entrapped is to riff off a greater dispel. It seems better to deny the magus both 4 points of saving throw bonuses and that nasty maze with a single sunder.
Edit: If it doesn't escape swiftly, the magus will own the balor as soon as the 10 minutes' time concludes. This was my thought on the matter.
Edit the third: Ah, yes, the belt on the original build is a death sentence the moment the balor sunders both the one ioun stone and the belt, since the Tiny elf is now at a 0 Strength, unconscious and unable to act. Suckage. :)
"Beastmass" (Beast Christmas?) is on the front page with attendant linky. It's basically a series of 7 Bestiary 1 critters encountered solo over the course of 2 days under various tactical circumstances. The idea is to see if you can "build" a PC that can withstand the onslaught and actually put the monsters down.
Without looking up all those Ioun Stones...
Shadows drain your Strength score in your sleep. You turn into a Shadow. You are now (un)dead.
Can't speak to 'Beastmass' and I'll admit I didn't completely read through that exhaustive character breakdown, but I'll throw this out there. A Void Mage that was made for a high level campaign we once ran featured, among other things, the class feature Reveal Weakness (-10 AC, -10 saves for 1 round at level 20, no save, no attack roll required) followed by a Quickened, Extended, Persistent Suffocation was pretty much a death sentence. Having said that, it always seemed to me that designing characters like this was a little silly - I sincerely doubt that this character was 'played up', and do you really expect to ever get to play him as is?
As Promised, Turin. Here we go.
The balor in Beastmass' second encounter as written has a surprise round, knows all that there is to know about the
victimcharacter in question and the character awakens from between 5 and 6 hours of unconsciousness at a distance of 10' from the balor, prone, with the balor enjoying "higher ground". Said balor also knows not to waste its time at first using Power Attack except when sundering.The balor's surprise round seizes the character's floating ioun stones via quickened telekinesis
Telekinesis grants a will save, which The Hexborn easily passes, for each object. Or, if you're going with the Combat Maneuver version, trying to "disarm" him of ONE object of your choice, then it uses The Balor's Caster level (20) + either his Intelligence or Charisma modifier (we'll say Charisma, since it's higher, so +8) for a total of 28 vs. The Hexborn's (still) 44 CMD.
standard action sunders the otherworldly kimono, the one thing that the magus has that the balor can't ignore.
The Hexborn has another slightly overlooked defense method: Opportune Parry and Riposte via the Flamboyant Arcana Arcane Deed. With a mere -4 (Because he woke up 6 hours later he only has Reduce Person active, therefore only takes a -4 size penalty) to his attack, and at the cost of one Arcane Pool point, he easily beats the Balor's power attack (which you specifically said he would do when trying to sunder) of 38, so the Kimono isn't sundered. He could use an immediate action to riposte, but the Demon is out of range. Oh well. He's not gonna need it anyway...
The magus wins initiative, has to reposition to a non-prone position against a foe with higher ground...
He's under the effect of Overland Flight, so getting up isn't an issue.
I could say that he uses the Kimono then moves to right where the Balor was and wait for him to pop out (Which will take a full round), but The Hexborn's saving it for some bigger fish, if you will.
So instead, he will fly up to his adversary, while pulling out his sword, which will trigger his scabbard, which he will put as a +4 for 1 round. Yeah, he'll still provoke an AoO as he moves up to him, so let's run that. The Balor tries to sunder his rapier, but his weapon is impervious, so even if he had lost his ioun stones, his CMD would only be at a -7. However, because of Impervious, and the Scabbard of Vigor, the DC to sunder is bumped up by the Enhancement Bonus (4) *2, so essentially, to sunder his rapier, the Balor has to hit a 52, and since you said he's power attacking when trying to sunder, he takes a -5 to his attack. Although, even if he didn't use PA, he wouldn't be able to hit it anyways. So, using Power Attack, his highest roll can only be a 36 (if using his highest attack bonus) or 38, if using his CMB (I'm not sure which one Sunder would use). But neither hit. Not using Power Attack, it would be 41 and 43, both shy of the mark.
But you know what, The Demon would probably know that this wouldn't work, and he probably knows that his rapier isn't the most vital target anyway. So he would probably decide to go for the belt, which he knows would be one step closer to an insta-kill. However, he knows that The Hexborn hasn't used his AoO this round, so he has another Opportune Parry and Riposte waiting for him. He can't grapple, he can't sunder, he can't trip, he can't bull rush, and he can't hit him with any of his weapons or Spell-like abilities, even quickened ones. I'll let you decide what his next move would be.
Barring any real threat from the AoO, from here, it's pretty straightforward. The Hexborn casts an Intensified Empowered Elemental (Quickened) Shocking Grasp (Succeeds his concentration check and overcomes his SR, both on 2's), then spellstrikes with it. He hits (on a 2), and even bypasses all of the Balor's DR. He hits for 125 (135-10 Acid Resist), then uses an immediate action and one arcane pool point to add 13 bleed damage. Total 138 damage. Then, he lets out the stored spell (which he had prepared as an Intensified Empowered (Elemental) Shocking Grasp), which does 91 damage (even after resistances). Total 229. Then, with his standard action, he casts an Intensified Empowered Elemental (Maximized) Shocking Grasp and Spellstrikes for 184 damage-10 for Acid Resist=174. Total 403. End of fight.
Keep in mind here that he didn't have Aligned, Bane or Keen up and he wasn't a tiny person. But I digress.
With two easy heal checks, he stops the bleed effect and stabilizes the Balor, then places an Intensified Empowered (Maximized) Shocking Grasp in his spell-storing weapon, casts another Overland Flight for good measure, gets his spells back with Spell Recall, regains all his Arcane Pool Points with his Wyroot weapon, then passes out to move on to the next challenge.
Without looking up all those Ioun Stones...
Shadows drain your Strength score in your sleep. You turn into a Shadow. You are now (un)dead.
I'm gonna have to keep this on speed dial.
Thanks for replying, but for now, I'm just looking for Beastmass stuff.
Can't speak to 'Beastmass' and I'll admit I didn't completely read through that exhaustive character breakdown, but I'll throw this out there. A Void Mage that was made for a high level campaign we once ran featured, among other things, the class feature Reveal Weakness (-10 AC, -10 saves for 1 round at level 20, no save, no attack roll required) followed by a Quickened, Extended, Persistent Suffocation was pretty much a death sentence. Having said that, it always seemed to me that designing characters like this was a little silly - I sincerely doubt that this character was 'played up', and do you really expect to ever get to play him as is?
See my last post. Or my original post. Just looking for Beastmass critters for now. But Thanks!
Edit. Sorry if I'm coming off as rude, but it just seems like no one read my original post... :/
As far as getting to play him, no. I never did expect to. This is all just theorycrafting. :)
+1 for being the first to respond! (Thanks)
He actually has a Ring of Freedom of Movement, so grapple's a no-go, but other combat maneuvers might work if done correctly...
VERY easy to kill....
step 1 : make a dragon (even a CR 14 dragon...) with caster lvl.
step 2: read anti magic field
step 3: fly in + grapple
step 4.....11 = magus dead.
no spells, no items, no freedom of movement = a very poor magus.
and it's not "too much", no super hero monster.
Thanks for replying. Yeah in the original post, I mention this at the end, and others have mentioned it, too. But this gets me thinking. There are only a handful of builds that can even hope of being able to beat that. Even Mage's Disjunction (A 9th-level spell) only has a 20% chance of getting rid of it (A 6th-level spell!). As far as we've seen, only Spellbane would do it. For me, that's RIDICULOUSLY overpowered. Anti-magic Field should be a level 9 spell. Hands down. But hey, maybe that's just me.
EDIT: Maybe the TRUE Beastmass should be to design a build that's not a 9th-level caster who can overcome an Antimagic-Field-Surrounded Great Wyrm.
Don't look up Mind Blank then if Antimagic Field is overpowered...
Speaking of Antimagic field, it looks like you can still cast inside one, but the spell doesn't go off. That means you can still, technically, use spellstrike and spell combat.
EDIT: Maybe the TRUE Beastmass should be to design a build that's not a 9th-level caster who can overcome an Antimagic-Field-Surrounded Great Wyrm.
As far as I know bombs don't count as magic so I'd try it with an alchemist. But I might be mistaken.
I don't actually know what Beastmass is but a suggestion I would have (not as the main encounter itself but as minions to support it) would be lightning elementals. Taking the best I can find (Elder Lightning Elementals) they'll have 39 CMB on selected maneuvers.
Disarm rapier, another lightning elemental flies away at 100ft speed with it. You still have your armor so the bonus still sticks around. Maintain tripping at the same time while actual encounter wails on you.
Just something which came to mind because recently I used small lightning elementals to help me kill my GMs encounter which should have run away. Lesson learned from then is lightning elementals can wreck anything with metal on them.
Thanks for Posting! I'll have to look into this a little deeper tomorrow, though first impression says that very few summons would be more than a speed bump. But, of course all things shall be considered.
Don't look up Mind Blank then if Antimagic Field is overpowered...
Speaking of Antimagic field, it looks like you can still cast inside one, but the spell doesn't go off. That means you can still, technically, use spellstrike and spell combat.
Put a death sentence on him the moment the Antimagic field dies...I like that, in a last-ditch, pressing-the-detonator-with-your-last-breath sort of thing. That could be a pretty fun story arc right there. Riddler or Joker type villain does that to a public figure and it's up to the PC's to figure out how to save him/her. Can you dispel an Instantaneous spell that hasn't gone off yet? If not...woof. That's pretty nasty.
EDIT: Just looked at Antimagic field one more time and it says that the duration isn't affected, so I guess the above wouldn't work. But maybe with something else, like a permanent Symbol of Death or something.
As Promised, Turin. Here we go.
Telekinesis grants a will save, which The Hexborn easily passes, for each object. Or, if you're going with the Combat Maneuver version, trying to "disarm" him of ONE object of your choice, then it uses The Balor's Caster level (20) + either his Intelligence or Charisma modifier (we'll say Charisma, since it's higher, so +8) for a total of 28 vs. The Hexborn's (still) 44 CMD.The balor in Beastmass' second encounter as written has a surprise round, knows all that there is to know about the
victimcharacter in question and the character awakens from between 5 and 6 hours of unconsciousness at a distance of 10' from the balor, prone, with the balor enjoying "higher ground". Said balor also knows not to waste its time at first using Power Attack except when sundering.The balor's surprise round seizes the character's floating ioun stones via quickened telekinesis
Nope. Floating ioun stones don't get your defenses. They have their own, which are nonexistent. This is why you need to implant them.
Nope. Floating ioun stones don't get your defenses. They have their own, which are nonexistent. This is why you need to implant them.As Promised, Turin. Here we go.
Telekinesis grants a will save, which The Hexborn easily passes, for each object. Or, if you're going with the Combat Maneuver version, trying to "disarm" him of ONE object of your choice, then it uses The Balor's Caster level (20) + either his Intelligence or Charisma modifier (we'll say Charisma, since it's higher, so +8) for a total of 28 vs. The Hexborn's (still) 44 CMD.The balor in Beastmass' second encounter as written has a surprise round, knows all that there is to know about the
victimcharacter in question and the character awakens from between 5 and 6 hours of unconsciousness at a distance of 10' from the balor, prone, with the balor enjoying "higher ground". Said balor also knows not to waste its time at first using Power Attack except when sundering.The balor's surprise round seizes the character's floating ioun stones via quickened telekinesis
I had a feeling my prognosis was too good to be true. Well then you're absolutely right. Those need to be implanted ASAP. Still, how many objects can you grab with one quickened casting of Telekinesis? From what I can see, it would be just one. Obviously The Balor would grab the Nacreous Gray Sphere, so that one would be the one to go. He could use his standard action to cast regular T and grab another one, but then, no sunder attempt. Again, I'll leave it up to you for his standard action.
EDIT: So I was looking it up on the pfsrd, but I couldn't find where it says that Ioun stones use their own bonuses. Not saying you're wrong, just that I'm not sure where that info is coming from. Found the Implanting rules there, too. :)
Just read this:
Facts About Ioun Stones
Ioun stones only float when sent spinning around the head of an intelligent (Int 3+) creature; otherwise they are as inert as common stone. They have no effect on animals, mindless constructs, and other non-sentient creatures; comatose intelligent creatures and those with significant Intelligence damage or drain cannot use ioun stones. An ioun stone has no particular affinity for the living—intelligent undead and the rare intelligent construct can make full use of them.
Despite their ability to float, ioun stones cannot support more than their own weight. They cannot be used to anchor ropes or support creatures. An ioun stone must be able to orbit freely around a creature’s head (or placed in a specialized matrix like a wayfinder) for its power to be active. Creatures without heads usually cannot use ioun stones. The orbit of an ioun stone reflects the thoughts and emotions of its owner; particularly intense emotions have been known to reverse a stone’s orbit or even momentarily stop it in its path.
Ioun stones in orbit never collide with other stones or creatures by chance, and automatically change course to avoid any obstacles in their path. This in large part explains the difficulty of striking an ioun stone in battle. An ioun stone in orbit counts as an attended object, and benefits from any magical protections possessed by its owner.
Emphasis Mine.
How would that affect this? I'm honestly not sure.
EDIT: He's still gonna get all of his stones implanted, of course, but for rules, it's good to know. :)
Floating ioun stones list their own AC, for starters. Their text says that they can simply be grabbed. telekinesis is 1 object/CL up to 15 objects with a combined weight no greater than 375 pounds @ CL 15th+.
There's a logic behind this as they can be singularly targeted on their own accord. If there is a dispute about TK grabbing the stuff, your biggest concern is against things such as the balor simply striking them all into dust between his surprise action, the provoked AoO for your movement and his first full-round.
What's worse is that long before the character is dealing with the Beastmass he's been facing foes with chain lightning and breath weapons. Free floating ioun stones are ash in short order as they use magic item saving throw rules (all or nothing, +8 item saving throw bonus as is standard for CL 12th items). With an AC of 24, 5 hardness, 10 hp, they simply *pop* 1/hit for the balor. An 11th level chain lightning or, worse, most respectable breath weapons of much lower CR creatures, will obliterate them in short order.
Ioun torches are cheap and disposable.
Implantation solves these problems, as does bonding them with a wayfinder as the wayfinder is an attended object on your person.
For me, especially looking at end-game scenarios, the last thing I'm leaving open to interpretation is something that has its own AC and its flavor text explicitly states that they can simply be grabbed or netted. 30+ energy damage will simply obliterate each and every floating ioun stone sooner or later.
Maybe there's an FAQ on whether or not ioun stones count as attended objects? I don't know.
I never considered ioun Stones potential tagets for area spells and chain ligthning. If that is the Way it should be they are worthless.
I never considered ioun Stones potential targets for area spells and chain lightning. If that is the Way it should be they are worthless.
My own players will use chain lightning and other effects on a foe's gear if they are getting their butts handed to them. They'd certainly be perfectly happy to telekinetically snag a bunch of floating ioun stones from the baddies!
What good is loot if you're to dead to claim it? ;)
I'm sorry Turin, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you and rule it the way I originally did.
Saving Throws
Magical Items: Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item's Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.
Emphasis Mine
In my previous post, you can see that Ioun stones are attended objects. Therefore, they would get a saving throw, use The Hexborn's bonus (being higher than theirs) and save on a 2 vs DC 23. Everything else would be as written.
Remember, The Demon still has an AoO, so there's that.
Btw, for Posterity, the above quote can be found here
As I understand it, items a creature is not carrying or holding are unattended. As a magic item the ioun stone gets its +8 save bonus - much, much weaker than the character's bonus and a guaranteed failure per the terms of the scenario. However, they may freely be snatched without recourse per their own description ("grabbed or netted") without a check even being required other than hitting their touch AC of 24 - and all telekinesis in this case is being used for is to grab them, and TK can grab 15 different items as part of its casting. Being quickened merely makes the grab a swift/free action.
Let us go with "balor gets no chance to TK-snag the floaters":
ioun stones have a set AC of 24 regardless of the owner, which - as the scenario stipulates - makes them incredibly vulnerable. Which is why stuffing them into a wayfinder is excellent protection as they are not targetable. The wayfinder may be, but it probably doubles the stone's effective hp without looking at the specifics. The one you already have in their has an excellent resonant power, so implant the rest of them.
The 1.0 character has two glaring weaknesses and many of the Beastmass foes know of them. The nacreous grey ioun stone and his +6 belt of physical perfection. The loss of the former is guaranteed by the scenario's set up, the balor simply attacks it first on the surprise round - guaranteed loss of that stone - which penalizes CMD by 6 points among other things, dropping CMD to 38, well within the balor's 'take 10' CMB (44 using its +1 weapon) to subsequently sunder the belt, dropping the character's Strength to 0 and the resulting vorpal coup-de-grace the moment you move more than 5' and/or "stand up from prone" via overland flight.
Now, without playing out the other possible actions (which there may/probably be), this could still change, but 1.0 is still dead meat walking until the stones are implanted against the subsequent "guaranteed ambushes" in the remainder of the Beastmass. You need access to greater mending to repair your higher CL gear on the fly.
The one thing I would consider for "Beastmass" is that Leadership cheese is forbidden. At some point I suppose taking the challenge on via theorycraft could be entertaining.
As I understand it, items a creature is not carrying or holding are unattended. As a magic item the ioun stone gets its +8 save bonus - much, much weaker than the character's bonus and a guaranteed failure per the terms of the scenario. However, they may freely be snatched without recourse per their own description ("grabbed or netted") without a check even being required other than hitting their touch AC of 24 - and all telekinesis in this case is being used for is to grab them, and TK can grab 15 different items as part of its casting. Being quickened merely makes the grab a swift/free action.
Let us go with "balor gets no chance to TK-snag the floaters":
ioun stones have a set AC of 24 regardless of the owner, which - as the scenario stipulates - makes them incredibly vulnerable. Which is why stuffing them into a wayfinder is excellent protection as they are not targetable. The wayfinder may be, but it probably doubles the stone's effective hp without looking at the specifics. The one you already have in their has an excellent resonant power, so implant the rest of them.
The 1.0 character has two glaring weaknesses and many of the Beastmass foes know of them. The nacreous grey ioun stone and his +6 belt of physical perfection. The loss of the former is guaranteed by the scenario's set up, the balor simply attacks it first on the surprise round - guaranteed loss of that stone - which penalizes CMD by 6 points among other things, dropping CMD to 38, well within the balor's 'take 10' CMB (44 using its +1 weapon) to subsequently sunder the belt, dropping the character's Strength to 0 and the resulting vorpal coup-de-grace the moment you move more than 5' and/or "stand up from prone" via overland flight.
Now, without playing out the other possible actions (which there may/probably be), this could still change, but 1.0 is still dead meat walking until the stones are implanted against the subsequent "guaranteed ambushes" in the remainder of the...
He bolded this text before "An ioun stone in orbit counts as an attended object, and benefits from any magical protections possessed by its owner."
Derp on my end. I do wish "magical protections" wasn't so vague.
Edit: so, the balor isn't a threat then, barring a fortuitous vorpal attack. I don't think the balor will last the 3 rounds that the challenge requires to pull that off. Carry on!
an infinite quantity of flying swarms.
possibly being locked in a room with any creature that resurrects after a period as well.
The pit fiend uses wish to cast antimagic field and enters melee range
1) Quickened True-Strike + Nasty Touch spell seems like a good route. (Moment of Prescience works too, many critters can get access to it via spellcasting or Wish).
Euphoric Tranquillity is really nice - the monster simply asks the character to take a closer look at that cool sword of his...
The Solar is well equipped to pull this off, since it has both Wish and Miracle. Sadly, per the terms of the Beastmass challenge, it does not seem inclined to use those intelligently :P
2) Kitting. Anything with At-Will (Greater) Teleport and a decent ranged option can easily do this. The Balor with his At-Will Telekinesis will be trouble here, since he can Teleport to put himself on max range and the magi is only fast enough to follow with Dimension Door*. Once those castings are used, the Balor is free to pelt the magi with Telekinesis rocks until he dies (once again, the average only rolling of the Beastmass gets in the way, since the Balor will miss on all rolls even given an infinite amount).
*Note: Dimension Door specifically forbids the caster from taking any more actions after casting. So no Teleport -> Attack.
After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn.
Would suggest fitting the Dimensional Agility feat in there somewhere to remedy that.
3) Taking away his ability to cast spells. Antimagic Field has been mentioned. Call of the Void or Silence would similarly prevent most of his spells.
4) The Linnorm can, as a full-round action, both bite and use its breath weapon once. If it elects to sunder the Kimono, the DC** of the breathweapon is high enough for the magi to fail. This inflicts some acid damage - but most importantly - 2d6 Str damage. Or the Linnorm could simply Sunder as a surprise round/AoO and use the double breath option for 4d6 Str damage.
**Only works if the Dragonbane sticks are set to Will