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There was a topic for a non-psionic hybrid giant race and how that would be possible. This got me thinking that not all races need to be conceived via inter-breeding.
Story 1: Trapped in a mountain pass by a rockslide, a village of barbarians is besieged by hill giants during a fiercely cold winter.
Desperate and losing the battle the barbarians turned to their eldest and wisest wizard. The wizard, with the aid of a wish spell from a ring created a potion from giant blood to grant all the villagers the size and strength of their enemy. The wizard was killed in the fighting and there was no one who could remove the effect. Time passed, the next generation born to the village were also changed as their parents were.
These "Giant-kin" are instinctively recognized by all giants and reviled as thieves who had stolen some vial essence from all giants, akin to how most races view vampires that kill to sustain their undeath.
Humanoid, normal speed, standard languages, 0 points.
Large size: +2 strength, -2 dex, ten foot space, reach (+5 foot), -1 to hit and AC, +1 Combat maneuver and CMD, -4 on stealth. 7 points.
Specialized: +2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 intellect, 1 point.
Advanced Strength: +2 strength, 4 points.
Total race points: 11
this may be offset by the fact that Giant-kin must have equipment crafted for their size and might, require four times as much food and drink, and most mounts can't bear them.
Giant kin stand tall and proud almost reaching 13 feet tall and weighing 1,000 lbs.
They do not have dark vision, natural armor, nor rock catching.
After the first generation, all Giant kin learned that they count as both human and giant for the purposes of any supernatural effect.
Giant kin minds are slightly slowed, and their skin is insensitive- Rather than the bonus feat and skill rank humans are used to gaining, a giant kin spends its life learning to be careful with their great size, weight, and strength.
While you race suggestion is valid under the Race Builder rules, it is definitely too powerful for any martial character. The draw backs are not significant enough to offset how strong your race is. The way you've built it, there is absolutely no reason not to build any strength based martial character using anything else.
I absolutely wouldn't allow it.
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Story two: a village situated in a swampy river delta was affected by some form of "Flesh-eating" disease and to survive this horror, the villagers infused themselves with a potion drawn from troll blood...
A few generations later, the children seemed different; somehow they were tougher, hardier, and fast healing. They were also less human! Troll-kin have a slight shady green skin tone, and eyes that look like troll eyes.
Humanoid, Medium size, normal movement, standard languages. 0 points.
Specialized : +2 strength, +2 Constitution, -2 charisma. 1 point.
Healthy: +4 on saves versus poison and disease, including magical diseases. 2 points.
Fast healing: regenerate 1 hit point each round. 6 points.
Life bound: gain a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws made to resist death effects, saving throws against negative energy effects, Fortitude saves made to remove negative levels, and Constitution checks made to stabilize if reduced to negative hit points. 2 points.
Total Race points: 11,
Troll-kin have decided to keep their secret from the rest of the world, fearing that they would be seen as abominations and monsters.
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While you race suggestion is valid under the Race Builder rules, it is definitely too powerful for any martial character. The draw backs are not significant enough to offset how strong your race is. The way you've built it, there is absolutely no reason not to build any strength based martial character using anything else.
I absolutely wouldn't allow it.
I know, but Giantkin can be used by the G.M. and not allowed due to players due their rarity. If you do allow a player "Infused-blooded" race, like the Giant kin You should find all the interesting ways that being a 13ft tall human is not a good thing. In the same way that a great sword is not the ULTIMATE weapon regardless of situation.
You can also emphasize the racial hatred giants feel towards Giant-kin.Also, Humans are built with only 9 points; why not allow a specific buff to bring humans to par with the other races. such as:
Chose two skills, these are now class skills.
or, pick a skill, this skill has a +1 on its use.
I would allow it. Especially if other races from the races handbook are allowed.
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Story three: a mystical maelstrom swept an entire city into the magical, chaotic, fey wyld. The survivors descendants mingled their heritage among the fey races: dryads, elves, nymphs, and more - in time becoming fey themselves...
The Enchanted
Fey (low light vision), medium size, normal speed, linguist- points 3.
Greater paragon: -2 strength, -2 wisdom, and +4 charisma. 2 points.
the enchanted are not so physically imposing, and perhaps a bit touched, but there is no denying their supernatural beauty.
Resistant: the enchanted have been subject to magical chaos for ages, and learned to overcome the madness. 2 points.
Silver tongued: the presence of the enchanted is soothing and their words can sway even stubborn hearts. 3 points.
Total: 10 points.
it is rare, but on occasion one of the enchanted can find themselves returned to the mundane world with no way back to the fey wyld.
With races, the flavor is often more important than the crunch.
The two drafts are both too strong for a PC race and too weak for a non-PC race. Remember that using advanced traits turns it into an advanced race.
Also, Humans are built with only 9 points; why not allow a specific buff to bring humans to par with the other races.
Humans are arguably the best core race in the game and better than most of the races that appear in the Advanced Race Guide. They're a perfect example why you should only use RP as a starting point (rather than a definitive measurement) for figuring out a race's power level.
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With races, the flavor is often more important than the crunch.
The two drafts are both too strong for a PC race and too weak for a non-PC race. Remember that using advanced traits turns it into an advanced race.
Also, Humans are built with only 9 points; why not allow a specific buff to bring humans to par with the other races.Humans are arguably the best core race in the game and better than most of the races that appear in the Advanced Race Guide. They're a perfect example why you should only use RP as a starting point (rather than a definitive measurement) for figuring out a race's power level.
Ultimately, the idea behind "Infused" "blooded" races is that not all races have to be a product of breeding.
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Glaceium
Northern refugees fleeing their pursuers hid themselves at the bottom of a glacial fissure. A powerful priest among their enemies cast an earthquake spell trapping them at the very bottom. These enemies believing that they had sealed the refugees fates, returned to their spoils.
The refugees were not dead, only trapped. Surrounded on all sides by dense ice. Having no priests among them to guide them in seeking divine aid; a sorcereress stepped forward and contacted all the elemental lords.
A pact was established. The lord of fire agreed to sustain them within the limits demanded by the other elemental lords. These limits required surrendering a few of their citizens through an elemental portal each year... Starting with the Sorceress herself.
The people would survive, even thrive miles below the ice. They were taught basic arcane cantrips to provide light, minimal warmth, and the power to shape ice, and soon others would discover that they had an elemental sorcerous gift.
In due time, the glaceium people had carved a great cavern below the ice and their dwellings from ice. With water drawn from the ice, their spells to warm the soil, and light the fields; their harvests where great. Gradually, They were changed. They no longer feared cold as most do and they took to their cantrips instinctually.
How would you create this race?
+4 on any check vs. environmental cold, additional -4 penalty when dealing with effects caused by environmental heat?
+2 constitution?
And racial cantrips?
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While you race suggestion is valid under the Race Builder rules, it is definitely too powerful for any martial character. The draw backs are not significant enough to offset how strong your race is. The way you've built it, there is absolutely no reason not to build any strength based martial character using anything else.
I absolutely wouldn't allow it.
oh, the giant kin do not gain a bonus feat, and no additional skill rank, nor do they benefit from a class preference. believe it or not that extra feat can be considerable, as can that extra skill rank. in terms of a feat chain, it can make as much as 3 levels difference.
to this we can add:
Monster - you do not fit in a world made for medium sized creatures.
we can also add a the lost of "beneficial" magical effects that target Humanoids, due to their giant blooded nature; enlarge person, reduce person, bull's strength, bear's endurance, they just do not work on Giant kin. Neither will magical items constructed with such spells.
That might tidy it up for you a tad.
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Actually, a blood infused race should gain trains that mimic the source of the infusion.
Because the infusion is a permanent lasting magic inherent to the changed people, Similar magic items and beneficial magic item effects do not stack with the infused bonus.
Akin to wearing a belt of strength +4 and having someone cast Bull's strength on you. these matching magical effects should not stack.
Does this sound like a fair way to better balance "Infused"/"Blooded" races?
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Dar'men (humans evolved)
Point cost 0. Humanoid, Medium, normal move, standard languages,
Point cost 4. ADVANCED: +2 strength, Constitution, Dexterity, +4 intelligence, -2 wisdom.
point cost 16. Ability score racial traits: Advanced- Str,con,dex,cha.
Total points 20.
effectively:
+4 strength,
+4 Constitution,
+4 Dexterity,
+4 Intelligence,
-2 Wisdom,
+2 Charisma.
The mad alchemist T'charZlez Darwyn, sought to unlock the latent gifts that all humans share. He succeeded in part. His "Na'zim" were indeed superior to the commoner.
However, they bore within them a twisted darkness that would only grow worse. (maybe he shouldn't have used cambion blood after all)
A Na'zim is always "OVERCONFIDENT" assured in its superiority.
is always "VENGEFUL", and will seek retaliation against any slight...
is always "BLOODTHIRSTY" and will never take prisoners.
is always "Mean" and can't accept praise or compliments from any Lesser creature... this means you.
is always driven to extremes, not wanting to merely best and opponent, but to utterly humiliate and destroy any opponent.
Na'zim do not relate to humanity emotionally and have lost all empathy for others - often taken with the belief that their superiority means that they should rule (at best) or slaughter all competing "Lesser beings".
Na'zim are depraved, psychotic, vain, merciless, Sadists, and destructive... This makes them absolutely "Evil".
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Perhaps I should try to redo these as 8/9 point MAXimum.
Giant-kin.
Large size, Specialized attributes, cost 8 points.
Effective +4 strength,+2 Constitution, -2 dexterity, -2 intelligence.
Balancer: as Giant-kin are no longer human, they lost access to their bonus feat, bonus skill rank, and favored class versatility. what they gain is a better understanding of their size weight and strength.
Balancer: giant-kin are in essence affected by a permanent enlarge person, bull's strength, and bear's endurance. They can not benefit from similar effects no matter the source unless the enhancement bonus is greater than +4 strength, +2 Con, large size. even so, the bonus is only replaced and not stacked.
Balancer: Giant-kin equipment must be made for their size and might as shown in the equipment rules for large races. Treasures found are not going to be in the giant-kin size and thus a giant-kin cannot use any magical items they "Just found". (*I.e. Won't fit, too small, too fragile*)
Balancer: Giant-kin need as a minimum four times the daily amount of food and drink than a normal human.
Balancer: All Giant-kin are instinctively hated by all giants. as such, an initial encounter a giant-kin has with a giant is shifted two categories worse.
Balancer: there is no "Ultimate weapon" for every job. For example, you can't wield a great-sword when you are swallowed whole. thus the giant kin may find themselves regularly inconvenienced but their great size and weight.
Imagine if you will:
Hey, Fred.
...Yeah, bob?
Could you give me a hand in getting out of this quicksand, fred?
... Bob, I am a halfling wizard with a 5 strength.
Fred-pfthpt Fre- fff- Blurp blup blup....
.... I call dibs on Bob's share of the treasure! says fred.
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Troll-blooded,
Standard attributes: +2 con, +2 wis, -2 cha.
Healthy, fast heal 1.
total, 9 points.
Balancer: Troll blooded have a green shade to their skin, hair and eyes. Troll blooded attempting to conceal their nature must use two charges from a disguise kit and have disguise as a class skill to conceal what they are. otherwise, the troll-blooded isn't fooling anyone.
Balancer: Troll blooded are hated by all trolls and hags. any troll blooded initial encounter with any kind of troll or hag begins as two categories worse.
Balancer: Monster, troll blooded are distrusted even by other humans.
Balancer: troll blooded are no longer human. They do not have the bonus feat, skill rank, favored class versatility.
Option: if this still seems Over powered, remove the +2 wisdom.
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The Enchanted
Fey (low light vision), medium size, normal speed, standard languages- points 2.
Attributes, Mixed weakness: -4 strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 wisdom and +2 charisma. -2 points.
the enchanted are not physically imposing, and perhaps a bit touched, but there is no denying their beauty.
Resistant: the enchanted have been subject to magical chaos for ages, and learned to overcome the madness. 2 points.
Silver tongued: the presence of the enchanted is soothing and their words can sway even stubborn hearts. 3 points.
Option: if this race is too weak for your campaign apply the +4 point costing +2 Charisma bonus. this is a supernatural glamour and is cancelled by cold iron as shown below.
Total:5 points. (Option 9 points).
Balancer: foreigner, Enchanted can not make untrained knowledge or profession checks. a newly arrived enchanted character hasn't been in the world long enough to know much about it.
Balancer: Not human, no bonus feat, no bonus skill rank, no class versatility.
Balancer: Vulnerable to superstitions that affect fey - i.e. a pinch of salt tossed at them can force a DC 20 concentration check, the sound of church bells can make them run away for the duration,
Balancer: Glamour is vulnerable to cold iron, the enchanted lose access to their charisma bonus(es) and Silver tongued trait when in contact with cold iron and for 1d6 rounds after contact has stopped. If struck by a cold iron weapon they lose the charisma bonus(es) and silver tongued trait for one round for each point of damage inflicted.
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How would you create the glaceium? (*their origin story is shown above.)
1. +4 on any check vs. environmental cold. In a manner of speaking they treat any cold environ as approximately 50 degrees warmer rendering even a freezing environment comfortable.
2. +2 constitution.
3. racial cantrips; ray of frost, light, mage hand- treat like "Gnome magic" ability?
Balancer: Cold blooded, additional -4 penalty when dealing with effects caused by environmental heat. the bad news, Glaceium treat any warm or hot environ as 20 degrees warmer
Balancer: Cold Shoulder, Glaceium all have ice white hair in varying shades -gray through platinum blonde. Glaceium eyes tend to be shades of blue or gray. Glaceium skin is always pale, and will not tan nor freckle. As such, the unique look of the glaceium people distinguishes them from other humans. most folk are distrustful of the mysterious and chilly glaceium.
Balancer: shrouded in mist - a glaceium can't disguise itself due to the chill that surrounds them, the cold of their flesh, and misty breath.
Balancer: foreigner, Glaceium can not make untrained knowledge or profession checks.
Balancer: Not human, no bonus feat, no bonus skill rank, no class versatility
is this balanced? is this acceptable?
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While you race suggestion is valid under the Race Builder rules, it is definitely too powerful for any martial character. The draw backs are not significant enough to offset how strong your race is. The way you've built it, there is absolutely no reason not to build any strength based martial character using anything else.
I absolutely wouldn't allow it.
wait.
the spell permanency (wiz/sorc 5th, can make a number of spells permanent on others, imagine this case being:
enlarge person
a human hit with this gains: large size (and all that entails) +2 strength, and -2 dex.
in the races book there is a variant human that has TWO attributes with a +2.
Giant human: str+4, dex-2, con+2
no bonus feat, no bonus skill rank.
*************************************************
applying the example above.
now, play a barbarian, grab a great sword or Large sized bastard sword. use it in two hands. (take proficiency with it, if required)
then permanent enlarge...
while raging this giant has: +8 str, -2 dex, +6 con.
the weapon now deals: 3d6 (1+1/2 str via 2-handed use= +6 more damage on top of normal)
pretty wild man!
now, what if two perm-enlarged have kids?
would the children be normal sized or enlarged?
my money is on enlarged because of the permanency.