New spells on level up.

[Thefurmonger]

Hey all.

Real basic question that I just can't find the answer to.

Our party is in a dungeon and hit a break point. At this point my Oracle goes from 9 to 10.

Do I get my new spells immediately? Or do I have to wait to prep again to gain access to the 5ths?

I assume I have to wait but cant for the life of me find the rule.

Thanks all.

[Nefreet]

Oracles are spontaneous casters, no prep is required.

[Thefurmonger]

right, but i still need my prayer time (for me) at dawn to regain spells.

the question is do i have to wait for that when i level up? or is it instant?

[Claxon]

I'm not sure the rules are clear on this, as a GM I would simply tell you that you need to rest to level up so the question would be moot. Talk to your GM about it.

[Thefurmonger]

we are at a point of respite, like we can sit and chat and be safe for a few, so he let us level up.

However we are like 8 hours from dawn so thats where the question came from.

He is a by the book GM so if there is a rule that what we go with, I just cant seem to find one.

it seems like if you level you get them, but im not 100% sure.

[bbangerter]

Could you clarify your question?

Do you mean do you get to select which 5th level spells you get access to immediately? Or do you mean can you start casting them immediately?

You would get to select them immediately.

Getting to cast them immediately is more of a gray area. I could see a GM ruling that yes you can. On the other hand, spell slots for a spontaneous caster refresh at a specific time each day (usually morning, and assuming appropriate amount of rest). So I could also see a GM ruling that you don't get your new slots till your normal rest period. So ultimately - ask your GM.

[Thefurmonger]

bbangerter wrote:

Could you clarify your question?

Do you mean do you get to select which 5th level spells you get access to immediately? Or do you mean can you start casting them immediately?

You would get to select them immediately.

Getting to cast them immediately is more of a gray area. I could see a GM ruling that yes you can. On the other hand, spell slots for a spontaneous caster refresh at a specific time each day (usually morning, and assuming appropriate amount of rest). So I could also see a GM ruling that you don't get your new slots till your normal rest period. So ultimately - ask your GM.

Right thats the issue. I have the spells selected, the casting is the question.

I'll talk to him.

[Rub-Eta]

As a DM, I would tell you that you need rest before whipping them out.

[Nefreet]

Oracles don't pray for spells.

That's what Clerics do.

It sounds like your campaign is treating them more like Clerics. If that's the case, then go with those rules.

But, ordinarily, spontaneous casters would need no such prep time.

[ryric]

I think the core question is, if you level up mid-day, do your new spell slots start as "expended" or as "available." This matters both for spontaneous casters and prepared, since a wizard could fill those new slots in a few minutes if they are available. I don't think there is an official answer.

Personally my group rules that the new slots start as "expended," but we usually only level up during camp-type situations anyway.

[Claxon]

ryric wrote:

I think the core question is, if you level up mid-day, do your new spell slots start as "expended" or as "available." This matters both for spontaneous casters and prepared, since a wizard could fill those new slots in a few minutes if they are available. I don't think there is an official answer.

Personally my group rules that the new slots start as "expended," but we usually only level up during camp-type situations anyway.

Exactly

[dragonhunterq]

Spontaneous casters still need 8 hours of rest and 15 minutes concentration to regain used spell slots, so oracles still need to 'pray', just for 15 minutes instead of an hour.

I rule new spell slots start as expended. On the basis that even spontaneous casters need to have rest and a short period of time to ready their spell slots .

[Rycaut]

Generally I rule differently - if I let people level up, I rule that they get the SLOTS immediately but don't have anything prepared into them (if they are prepared casters - this means that they can use the rules for filling an unfilled slot - which varies by caster but I would let a wizard study his spell book etc - but I wouldn't also give him immediate access to 5th level spells so he would need to use those slots for lower level spells or for metamagic enhanced spells - unless he happened to have a spell book handy with the appropriate level spells (if he just gained access to a new level of spells)

For spontaneous casters I rule similarly - the knowledge of new spells takes time and rest - but the slots are there immediately - so again could be used for lower level spells known.

Depends a bit on the situation - but generally if I have let the part level up I want to make sure that every member of the party gets some immediate new resources even w/o a full rest. My philosophy is that if I have let them level in the middle of the day they are likely facing challenges - so I want to let them use their new tricks immediately

(and mechanically I usually only have people level between sessions - so typically this means they have had some time to make level up decisions and I want to let them play the new session with some of their new stuff)

[Korlos]

In 3.5, there was an obscure rule that you didn't gain the benefits of a new level until you had rested for 8 hours. I don't have the books, or I'd check Pathfinder for such a rule.

[Diego Rossi]

PRD wrote:

Advancing Your Character

A character advances in level as soon as he earns enough experience points to do so—typically, this occurs at the end of a game session, when your GM hands out that session's experience point awards.

So the official rule is: "you advance in level when the the GM hands out the XP awards."