Magus / Mystic Theurge Spell Combat / Spell Synthesis


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

I'm wondering if you can use spell synthesis with spell combat. For spell combat the spell has to be one standard action. Spell synthesis lets you cast two with one action. Could you combine the two?

It can seem overpowered, but you would have to be rather high level to do it so it isn't actually that broken in my opinion.

Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

Spell Synthesis (Su): At 10th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from each of his spellcasting classes, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time. The mystic theurge can make any decisions concerning the spells independently. Any target affected by both of the spells takes a –2 penalty on saves made against each spell. The mystic theurge receives a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance with these two spells. A mystic theurge may use this ability once per day.


Sure. As long as you have Broad Study, otherwise the second spell fails to meet the criteria set out by Spell Combat.

Liberty's Edge

So with Spellstrike would you get one extra attack with two spells on it, or two extra attacks each with 1 spell?


^I would lean towards one extra attack with the synthesized spell on it (that includes both parent spells). This is only once per day, so the impact of that Capstone is not all that great unless you have a 15 minute adventuring day. A worse problem is that the recent SLA FAQ nerf completely wrecked Mystic Theurge unless you are going well into Epic levels, and even without that, Broad Study requires you to get 6 levels of Magus anyway, which really hoses you in the other class's spellcasting.


Not sure about it working with spellstrike. There's issues with the holding a charge rules and casting spells. normally casting any spell will dissipate a charge you've held. Its sort of undefined how the Spell Synthesis occurs, timing wise. Are they cast sequentially in that same action, or are they woven together into a single spell with two effects that occur simultaneously?

The simplest thing to do is to stick with a single buff spell, and a touch spell. I'd recommend True Strike combined with Slay Living.. :-)


^The description of Spell Synthesis says that the parent spells are both cast in one action, so they wouldn't discharge each other. With the limit of 1 use per day, it is a lousy enough capstone that it doesn't need a nerf even if the Mystic Theurge hadn't already been nerfed to uselessness by the SLA FAQ nerf.

Liberty's Edge

To cast a spell with spell combat the spell must come from the magus class.

hat limitation can be lifted with broad study:

PRD wrote:


Broad Study (Ex): The magus selects another one of his spellcasting classes.[/quote+

(I thought it worked only with arcane classes, but it don't say that, so it work with any spellcasting class.)

Liberty's Edge

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^The description of Spell Synthesis says that the parent spells are both cast in one action, so they wouldn't discharge each other. With the limit of 1 use per day, it is a lousy enough capstone that it doesn't need a nerf even if the Mystic Theurge hadn't already been nerfed to uselessness by the SLA FAQ nerf.

Pathfinder Design Team wrote:

FAQ updated: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qow

Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.

This has been changed? I see I can't find anymore the main post, but I can't find a post by the PDT retracting it.

I have found the revised FAQ, and there is no PDT post matching it. A pity as checking the PDT posts is way simpler than checking the FAQ for every book.

FAQ wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly. For instance, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat. However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells".


Diego Rossi wrote:


This has been changed? I see I can't find anymore the main post, but I can't find a post by the PDT retracting it.

I have found the revised FAQ, and there is no PDT post matching it. A pity as checking the PDT posts is way simpler than checking the FAQ for every book.

Yep, it was changed. There was no PDT about it, presumably because it was an unpopular enough change that they didn't want to draw too much attention.

It was also covered on the PFS forum in some depth.

And yes, this means most prestige classes go back to being worthless again, sadly.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Back to the original topic:

It can work, as long as Broad Study has been taken (as mentioned). It is one of the few ways to cast three spells in a round (i.e., Quickened true strike from a domain or Spell Blending, plus Spell Combat to cast a synthesized force punch/harm using Spellstrike).

Even the BAB issue can be mitigated, since a magus 6+/cleric 3/mystic theurge 10 (BAB +11) can use heroism (either from a domain or through Spell Blending) and divine favor to add +5 to attack rolls (+2 morale bonus for 10 min/level from heroism and +3 luck bonus for 1 min from divine favor); divine power can add an additional +1 (or +2 with an activated prayer bead (Karma)). A magus/cleric/mystic theurge has to burn spell slots to be effective, but has plenty of spell slots to burn.


It does bring most prestige classes back to not being available until 5th or 6th level, which was always the design basis for them (this is why most of them have a skill rank requirement of 5 ranks - to limit it to 5th level or higher).

Liberty's Edge

CraziFuzzy wrote:
It does bring most prestige classes back to not being available until 5th or 6th level, which was always the design basis for them (this is why most of them have a skill rank requirement of 5 ranks - to limit it to 5th level or higher).

I have no problem with the ruling, I was only surprised to have missed it ant that there was no PDT post about it. I generally check the PDT post to see if there is some new FAQ.


There was a post about it.

thatcheriliff wrote:
So with Spellstrike would you get one extra attack with two spells on it, or two extra attacks each with 1 spell?

It depends on how you rule Spell Synthesis. Either the spells are simultaneous or sequential. Now, let's note some quick rules:

  • A touch spell is automatically discharged whenever a legal touch is made. In the case of Spellstrike, any weapon attack is a touch.
  • A touch spell grants an attempt to discharge it as a free action once per round
  • If a touch spell's charge is held, casting another spell will immediately dissipate the charge

    So, if they're simultaneous:

  • Because of the first bullet, if you attempt to discharge one spell, you discharge both.
  • However, because of the second bullet, if you miss with your first touch (and only if you miss), you would get a second.

    If they're sequential:

  • Upon casting the first spell, you would have to immediately use your free action delivery (via Spellstrike or no), before casting the second spell. If it connects, proceed as normal with the second casting.
  • If you miss with the free touch of the first attack, however, bullet #3 kicks in, and you lose the held charge of that spell.

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