Vanguard Slayer and Lookout

[Melkiador]

Can a vanguard allow his entire party to act in a round where they should have been surprised? How well do these all work together?

Quote:

Ever Ready (Ex): At 7th level, a vanguard is never considered an unaware combatant (Core Rulebook 178) and is always able to act in the surprise round. The vanguard is still flat-footed in the surprise round until he acts. This ability replaces stalker.

Quote:

Tactician (Ex): At 2nd level, a vanguard receives a teamwork feat as a bonus feat. He must meet the prerequisites for this feat. Once per day as a standard action, the vanguard can grant one of his teamwork feats to all allies within 30 feet who can see and hear him. Allies retain the use of this bonus feat for 3 rounds plus 1 round for every 2 levels the vanguard possesses. Allies do not need to meet the prerequisites of this bonus feat. Whenever the vanguard is able to select a new slayer talent, he can instead choose to gain an additional use per day of this ability. This ability replaces the slayer talent gained at 2nd level.

Quote:

Lookout (Teamwork):

Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you may act in the surprise round as long as your ally would normally be able to act in the surprise round. If you would normally be denied the ability to act in the surprise round, your initiative is equal to your initiative roll or the roll of your ally –1, whichever is lower. If both you and your ally would be able to act in the surprise round without the aid of this feat, you may take both a standard and a move action (or a full-round action) during the surprise round.

[Claxon]

No, not unless he just happens to activate somehow before the surprise round occurs. He cannot activate it during the surprise round to get everyone else to act in the surprise round as well.

[Melkiador]

Claxon wrote:

No, not unless he just happens to activate somehow before the surprise round occurs. He cannot activate it during the surprise round to get everyone else to act in the surprise round as well.

That's why I was asking, but why? The feat is actually worded in such a way it doesn't seem to care about timing.

[Claxon]

Because the surprise round is already occurring, it just doesn't make sense to me, to effectively go back in time and say "Hey! You guys noticed that."

[Melkiador]

Claxon wrote:

Because the surprise round is already occurring, it just doesn't make sense to me, to effectively go back in time and say "Hey! You guys noticed that."

But isn't that how the feat already works? Assume everyone already has the feat. The surprise round is occurring and only one isn't surprised. "Hey! You guys noticed that."

[Claxon]

Right, except you have to use a standard action to activate your ability. If your allies had the Lookout feat themselves, then yes absolutely, you would all always act in the surprise round.

But in my mind, having to activate Tactician prevents it from being used with Lookout. Try searching for Cavaliers and Lookout and see what they have to say. Tactician comes from the Cavalier anyways, so I'm thinking this question has been asked for them before now.

[Melkiador]

I did some searches for similar questions and just found silence or disagreement. Barring a FAQ, I think this will just be a table variance thing.

[9mm]

I see no reason why using your standard action in a suprised round will not work for giving your party actions in a suprise round, but they would have to act after you in initiative.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Yeah, it should work just fine.

You take your action to point out to them that they should hurry up and move, so they do.

[NBDM]

This thread is a little over 6 months old, I apologize if this would be considered a necro but this page is the top result when searching for this subject.

After about an hour of sifting through the rules of combat flow and this feat, it boils down to this.

The following applies to a surprise round where only the slayer can act, IE the group does not initiate the surprise round.

all initiatives need to be rolled
Any one who rolls higher then the Slayer can not move or attack during the surprise round. They can not hold or delay their action in this case because they are caught surprised and the Slayer has not acted yet, allowing them to react
Slayer uses his standard action in the surprise round. Thats his turn in the surprise round.
Any one after the vanguard, who is next to an ally within 30 feet, can take either a move, or a standard action, but not both. (clarification - if allies need to be next to someone with lookout to use it and the vanguard spreads it out over 30 feet, then technically they don't need to be adjacent to the vanguard, just someone else).
Go in combat order down the list. Once thats over, then a normal round begins.

If the group does initiate the surprise round, every one who rolled higher then the slayer can hold/delay their action until the slayer takes his action of using lookout. Then instead of a move or a standard action, those that are adjacent to an ally with the lookout feat can now do both a standard and a move action.