I *love* the new poison system from Unchained, but they seem to apply only to the "manufactured" poisons.
How should we handle the new poison rules regarding to monsters with poisonous attacks?
I *love* the new poison system from Unchained, but they seem to apply only to the "manufactured" poisons.
How should we handle the new poison rules regarding to monsters with poisonous attacks?
Use the examples and convert based on which ability score it targets. Hopefully, it should be as simple as that. Above all, enjoy!
How should the balance of poisons be handled?
The DC, onset time and frequency (both the time and the maximum number of checks) as well as the number of checks needed to cure all work well with the new system, but those things were balanced with the severity of the ability damage, which can't be taken into account with the new rules?
Potent poison attacks that were balanced with easy saves are not pretty much worthless if they work on the same penalty track regardless of their original severity.
Can you suggest a quick rule of thumb to convert those?
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How should the balance of poisons be handled?
The DC, onset time and frequency (both the time and the maximum number of checks) as well as the number of checks needed to cure all work well with the new system, but those things were balanced with the severity of the ability damage, which can't be taken into account with the new rules?
Potent poison attacks that were balanced with easy saves are not pretty much worthless if they work on the same penalty track regardless of their original severity.
Can you suggest a quick rule of thumb to convert those?
I am interested in this same thing. Did you ever figure anything out?
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If something is super-potent in effect with a low DC, give it an alternate track that sends you to a bad condition sooner (see the examples for some examples). For instance, a Strength poison that used to do something ghastly like 2d6 Strength damage could take you two steps down the track for each failure instead of one. Unchained poison rules open up each poison you convert to your creativity in creating alternate tracks (like how green lotus poison makes someone into a biddable servant instead of killing them), allowing you to customize the results to fit the situation and make some really unique poisons!
If something is super-potent in effect with a low DC, give it an alternate track that sends you to a bad condition sooner (see the examples for some examples). For instance, a Strength poison that used to do something ghastly like 2d6 Strength damage could take you two steps down the track for each failure instead of one. Unchained poison rules open up each poison you convert to your creativity in creating alternate tracks (like how green lotus poison makes someone into a biddable servant instead of killing them), allowing you to customize the results to fit the situation and make some really unique poisons!
Hmm... this makes me want to homebrew a pdf that just gives flavourful tracks for all RPG-line poisons and diseases... That's a good sign.
If something is super-potent in effect with a low DC, give it an alternate track that sends you to a bad condition sooner (see the examples for some examples). For instance, a Strength poison that used to do something ghastly like 2d6 Strength damage could take you two steps down the track for each failure instead of one. Unchained poison rules open up each poison you convert to your creativity in creating alternate tracks (like how green lotus poison makes someone into a biddable servant instead of killing them), allowing you to customize the results to fit the situation and make some really unique poisons!Hmm... this makes me want to homebrew a pdf that just gives flavourful tracks for all RPG-line poisons and diseases... That's a good sign.
Yeah, I really like these rules. The funny thing is, it was the last thing we added to the book. Logan figured out a clever way to handle the items that significantly improved them and cut a good chunk of the pages they took, which was good because I had requested to add Dynamic Magic Item Creation, Removing Alignment, and Automatic Bonus Progression to the book, and they needed a bunch of pages. However, we still wound up with those four pages, so I wound up writing that section to fill the gap, based on Linda's awesome ideas for cooler disease and poison (with her permission). So even though she wasn't at the company yet, that was Linda's first contribution to the Pathfinder RPG line!
Yeah, I really like these rules. The funny thing is, it was the last thing we added to the book. Logan figured out a clever way to handle the items that significantly improved them and cut a good chunk of the pages they took, which was good because I had requested to add Dynamic Magic Item Creation, Removing Alignment, and Automatic Bonus Progression to the book, and they needed a bunch of pages. However, we still wound up with those four pages, so I wound up writing that section to fill the gap, based on Linda's awesome ideas for cooler disease and poison (with her permission). So even though she wasn't at the company yet, that was Linda's first contribution to the Pathfinder RPG line!
Dynamic Item Creation, Subjective Alignment and Automatic Bonus Progression were definitely my favourite part of the books so that's very lucky those pages opened up. :P
Interesting to hear about the background of those sections.... I do wish they got you on unchained rogue though after seeing vigilante stalker's playtest. I mean, unchained rogue was great but you seem to have a good eye when it comes to stealth.
If something is super-potent in effect with a low DC, give it an alternate track that sends you to a bad condition sooner (see the examples for some examples). For instance, a Strength poison that used to do something ghastly like 2d6 Strength damage could take you two steps down the track for each failure instead of one. Unchained poison rules open up each poison you convert to your creativity in creating alternate tracks (like how green lotus poison makes someone into a biddable servant instead of killing them), allowing you to customize the results to fit the situation and make some really unique poisons!Hmm... this makes me want to homebrew a pdf that just gives flavourful tracks for all RPG-line poisons and diseases... That's a good sign.
I'd definitely be interested in seeing that!
Add (1) a good generic way to convert monster poisons into this system, and (2) an alternative pricing system for poisons, and I'd be happy to give you money for it! (Or sing your praise in perpetuity; whichever you'd prefer.)
I'd definitely be interested in seeing that!
Add (1) a good generic way to convert monster poisons into this system, and (2) an alternative pricing system for poisons, and I'd be happy to give you money for it! (Or sing your praise in perpetuity; whichever you'd prefer.)
Started listing all the RPG-line poisons and diseases and... wow, some of these are weird. Never knew linnorm's poisons did things like fire damage, also pit-fields really need to see a doctor... most virulent strain of devil chills ever. All the while, I still haven't found a single poisonous creature.
Yeah, I really like these rules. The funny thing is, it was the last thing we added to the book. Logan figured out a clever way to handle the items that significantly improved them and cut a good chunk of the pages they took, which was good because I had requested to add Dynamic Magic Item Creation, Removing Alignment, and Automatic Bonus Progression to the book, and they needed a bunch of pages. However, we still wound up with those four pages, so I wound up writing that section to fill the gap, based on Linda's awesome ideas for cooler disease and poison (with her permission). So even though she wasn't at the company yet, that was Linda's first contribution to the Pathfinder RPG line!Dynamic Item Creation, Subjective Alignment and Automatic Bonus Progression were definitely my favourite part of the books so that's very lucky those pages opened up. :P
Interesting to hear about the background of those sections.... I do wish they got you on unchained rogue though after seeing vigilante stalker's playtest. I mean, unchained rogue was great but you seem to have a good eye when it comes to stealth.
I'm really glad you liked my sections! As to rogue, I got to help out a lot with secondary stuff after the fact, including a lot of the upgrades to rogue talents (like the increased usage of minor and major magic) and adding the inclusion of rogue's edge / skill unlocks. But honestly, this was the very first book I ever worked on after joining the company. Putting me as primary on the new rogue class seems like it would have been pretty darn risky, and I think Jason doing primary work with backup from me and Logan (while Stephen was tackling the first pass on the stamina system from scratch) worked out pretty well!
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I'm really glad you liked my sections! As to rogue, I got to help out a lot with secondary stuff after the fact, including a lot of the upgrades to rogue talents (like the increased usage of minor and major magic) and adding the inclusion of rogue's edge / skill unlocks. But honestly, this was the very first book I ever worked on after joining the company. Putting me as primary on the new rogue class seems like it would have been pretty darn risky, and I think Jason doing primary work with backup from me and Logan (while Stephen was tackling the first pass on the stamina system from scratch) worked out pretty well!Yeah, I really like these rules. The funny thing is, it was the last thing we added to the book. Logan figured out a clever way to handle the items that significantly improved them and cut a good chunk of the pages they took, which was good because I had requested to add Dynamic Magic Item Creation, Removing Alignment, and Automatic Bonus Progression to the book, and they needed a bunch of pages. However, we still wound up with those four pages, so I wound up writing that section to fill the gap, based on Linda's awesome ideas for cooler disease and poison (with her permission). So even though she wasn't at the company yet, that was Linda's first contribution to the Pathfinder RPG line!Dynamic Item Creation, Subjective Alignment and Automatic Bonus Progression were definitely my favourite part of the books so that's very lucky those pages opened up. :P
Interesting to hear about the background of those sections.... I do wish they got you on unchained rogue though after seeing vigilante stalker's playtest. I mean, unchained rogue was great but you seem to have a good eye when it comes to stealth.
Just popping into this thread to say: the Poison section and the Unchained Rogue were two of my favourite sections of Pathfinder Unchained, because the rules were both great and badly needed - so thanks for writing them/helping write them!
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Mark is there a page somewhere in the Paizoverse that conglomerates all known Pathfinder RPG poisons from all Paizo books in one place, and shows the traditional poison effect side-by-side with your new poison track approach?
If not I'm thinking it would be a cool yet easy thing to maintain... many books from the various Paizo subscriptions come out with new poisons regularly, some with wild and unusual effects. I would love for your system to not be left behind because of all those "awesome new poison newbies".
Last, and I must warn you this is a shamelessly selfish request: do you know if there's an official Pathfinder poison that say, inflicts 1 hit point of damage per hour or the like? (i.e. slow kill poison, like those good old ones from the 80's video game RPGs like Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior... just enough to be annoying, but usually not enough to kill you) I'm thinking those would be cool and manageable for low-level parties, and would still build some tension during long stretches in wilderness, away from cities/clerics.
Mark is there a page somewhere in the Paizoverse that conglomerates all known Pathfinder RPG poisons from all Paizo books in one place, and shows the traditional poison effect side-by-side with your new poison track approach?
Not Mark (obviously) but, there are only a small number of poisons converted to the track approach so I'd imagine such a page would be abit redundant at the current time.
In bestiary + CRB alone there are over 60 poisons, so conversion of all of PFRPG poisons would take considerable time.
Mark is there a page somewhere in the Paizoverse that conglomerates all known Pathfinder RPG poisons from all Paizo books in one place, and shows the traditional poison effect side-by-side with your new poison track approach?Not Mark (obviously) but, there are only a small number of poisons converted to the track approach so I'd imagine such a page would be abit redundant at the current time.
In bestiary + CRB alone there are over 60 poisons, so conversion of all of PFRPG poisons would take considerable time.
It probably wouldn't take me too long to convert some of them, since a good number would be close to the standard for their ability score. Hmm, normally I'd have no real venue for it, but it's something to consider for if my new fan page gets enough likes or something like that.
@Slow-kill hp poison: I don't think that exists right now, but you can do it fairly easily with Unchained Con poison; just make it a 1/hour Con poison with a low DC and a whole lot of saves to remove. DC 14 (3 consecutive saves remove) frequency 1/hour deals 2 damage per hour until they make those 3 consecutive saves. Does that help PDK?
Hmm... anyone have any suggestions on how Green Prismatic Poison should be handled? It's You Die as primary effect and con damage as second effect makes it abit weird...
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Thanks Mark! that's great stuff! from a design perspective, I've always wondered why poisons/diseases always target ability scores instead of hit points... the game has been built that way since 2000, I get it, but new poisons could just target HP, make you nauseated, etc. (debuffs instead of always resulting in lesser restoration grind....)
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It probably wouldn't take me too long to convert some of them, since a good number would be close to the standard for their ability score. Hmm, normally I'd have no real venue for it, but it's something to consider for if my new fan page gets enough likes or something like that.Mark is there a page somewhere in the Paizoverse that conglomerates all known Pathfinder RPG poisons from all Paizo books in one place, and shows the traditional poison effect side-by-side with your new poison track approach?Not Mark (obviously) but, there are only a small number of poisons converted to the track approach so I'd imagine such a page would be abit redundant at the current time.
In bestiary + CRB alone there are over 60 poisons, so conversion of all of PFRPG poisons would take considerable time.
So, as a follow-up, I've started with these here every 5 likes starting at 100 (we have Arsenic and Azure Lily Pollen so far!).
Thread Necromancy!
I'm reading over Unchained Poisons and Diseases, but I can't find where it states how the track is progressing. It's been a while since I had a game and just being daft probably.
The poison track simulates the progressive effects of poison in the body. A character who is poisoned rolls a saving throw after the listed onset at the listed frequency. On an initial exposure
to poison, regardless of whether her save succeeds, a victim takes an amount of poison damage equal to the poison’s DC – 10, divided by 2 (for example, 5 points of poison damage for a DC 20 poison). This is hit point damage, not ability damage. If a victim is exposed to additional doses of the same poison, a failed save progresses the poison track by one step and increases the duration by 50%, but doesn’t increase the DC.
Does this mean that the poisoned creature takes a Fort Save at each frequency, taking Poison Damage each time, and when it fails, the track gets worse? Or only when additional doses are added?
I'm a little worried about a cheap scorpion poison disabling someone because of a few bad rolls?