Exotic Lance builds


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Here are some questions to make your brain itch:

  • Is it possible to dual-wield lances (and steer with your knees)? If so, is there any benefit to damage output.
  • Since a lance can be wielded with one arm while mounted, does that mean one can increase the die type by wielding a large(r) lance two-handed?

Silver Crusade

A lance is already a two-handed weapon. It does not become a one-handed weapon when you wield it while mounted, it is a two-handed weapon that you can wield in one hand. So, you cannot use a lance for a larger size creature than yourself.

You could possibly wield two lances while mounted, however, you cannot use the two lances in a charge, since you are only allowed a single attack. I think that Rage-Lance-Pounce was errataed away, but someone else will know better than I do.

The penalties for fighting with two lances while mounted would be -6/-10, or if you have the two-weapon fighting feat -4/-4, as neither one is light. I can't imagine how this would increase your damage output, even with an extra attack.

Also, this would be a question for the Rules Forum, so I am flagging it to be moved.

Grand Lodge

A bastard sword is a two handed sword that you can use one handed in certain situations. And we know that in that situation you can wield an oversized one twohanded.

So, I am not sure that you can't wield an oversized lance twohanded while mounted.

Grand Lodge

FLite wrote:

A bastard sword is a two handed sword that you can use one handed in certain situations. And we know that in that situation you can wield an oversized one twohanded.

So, I am not sure that you can't wield an oversized lance twohanded while mounted.

That's a different situation though, as its a feat (EWP) giving you the ability to use it one-handed, effectively making it a one handed weapon. The conditional situation for a lance is not the same thing.


FLite wrote:

A bastard sword is a two handed sword that you can use one handed in certain situations. And we know that in that situation you can wield an oversized one twohanded.

So, I am not sure that you can't wield an oversized lance twohanded while mounted.

Actually, it's the reverse. A Bastard Sword is a One-Handed Exotic weapon that can be wielded two-handed without penalty as a Martial weapon. It is still a one-handed weapon.

Sczarni

Bastard Sword and Lance function opposite.

One is a two-handed weapon that can be wielded one-handed under certain conditions.

The other is a one-handed weapon that can be wielded two-handed if you don't have proficiency.

Edit: grrr, beaten by 46 seconds!


Oversized lance is a no go, Inappropriately Sized Weapons rule doesn't allow for use of weapons larger than two-handed weapons and a lance used while mounted is a two-handed weapon which is wielded in one-hand, not a one-handed weapon.

Dual lances can be used to TWF while on a mount, however they would be subject to the non-light off-hand weapon penalties (which don't specify that they only apply to one-handed weapons, so two-handed weapons wielded in one hand would apply them). Damage potential is tough to figure, generally speaking TWFing lances would do less damage than weilding a single lance in two-hands but this very much depends on hit chance and damage bonuses - a paladin using smite will probably see an increase in damage using dual lances while a biting barbarian probably won't. Charging with two lances is kinda funny, the first lance attack would get the damage bonus from charging while the rest shouldn't (implied by this FAQ) if you had some means of making more than one attack while charging.

--edit--- shouldn't have ended there

(cont.) although erratic charge would of course trigger the damage bonus on the second lance attack instead of the first and there might be some spells/magic items which produce effects lasting a charge action instead of a charge attack which would affect all attacks

Scarab Sages

cnetarian wrote:
Dual lances can be used to TWF while on a mount, however they would be subject to the non-light off-hand weapon penalties (which don't specify that they only apply to one-handed weapons, so two-handed weapons wielded in one hand would apply them). Damage potential is tough to figure, generally speaking TWFing lances would do less damage than weilding a single lance in two-hands but this very much depends on hit chance and damage bonuses - a paladin using smite will probably see an increase in damage using dual lances while a biting barbarian probably won't. Charging with two lances is kinda funny, the first lance attack would get the damage bonus from charging while the rest shouldn't (implied by this FAQ) if you had some means of making more than one attack while charging.

This FAQ on the other hand, clearly states why you dont get bonuses from multiple attacks while charging, and implies that a second lance COULD get that damage multiplier, because it has the charge's momentum as well. I dont think either FAQ anticipates the posibility of two weapon-fighting while charging.

Grand Lodge

burkoJames wrote:
cnetarian wrote:
Dual lances can be used to TWF while on a mount, however they would be subject to the non-light off-hand weapon penalties (which don't specify that they only apply to one-handed weapons, so two-handed weapons wielded in one hand would apply them). Damage potential is tough to figure, generally speaking TWFing lances would do less damage than weilding a single lance in two-hands but this very much depends on hit chance and damage bonuses - a paladin using smite will probably see an increase in damage using dual lances while a biting barbarian probably won't. Charging with two lances is kinda funny, the first lance attack would get the damage bonus from charging while the rest shouldn't (implied by this FAQ) if you had some means of making more than one attack while charging.
This FAQ on the other hand, clearly states why you dont get bonuses from multiple attacks while charging, and implies that a second lance COULD get that damage multiplier, because it has the charge's momentum as well. I dont think either FAQ anticipates the posibility of two weapon-fighting while charging.

Attacks also don't happen simultaneously, though. And it does say "first attack" in the FAQ. Also, it mentions iterative attacks. Off-hand attacks aren't iterative attacks (though they closely mirror them), they're extra attacks granted by the TWF feats. While it would probably be fair for a GM to interpret it that you could get the charge-lance bonus on each first attack with either hand, it definitely wasn't meant to. I don't think it would be balanced, even with the TWF penalties. And there's enough evidence to support that you only get the charge-lance bonus once.


I always thought that TWF is done when taking a full attack action, and a charge by taking the charge action: seems impossible to combine the two or am I missing something here?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Magabeus wrote:
I always thought that TWF is done when taking a full attack action, and a charge by taking the charge action: seems impossible to combine the two or am I missing something here?

Pounce.


Thanks! And how does one get pounce on a mounted PC while wielding weapons? Or is that discussed upthread?

Grand Lodge

Magabeus wrote:
Thanks! And how does one get pounce on a mounted PC while wielding weapons? Or is that discussed upthread?

Greater Beast Totem is the usual way.

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