I really wasn't sure if this was covered in the Unchained thread as that thread got bigger and bigger I stopped reading it.
I did, however, search for the two and came up empty.
I found that the two were very similar and I am assuming that lots of people already know this.
Basically what I want to know is what people think of the two (which one they would play given the chance.)
The UC Monk has issues with its pool so I have been told, but I have looked at it and I think with proper management the right abilities can be taken so that the pool doesn't run dry.
The Brawler seemed to be the answer to the normal monk.
I haven't built one and I wonder about the TWF built into it if that works.
This isn't about NGC trying to make an optimized build, I am just interested in what people thing on which is better.
Thanks.
The Brawler is infinitely more flexible than the Unchained Monk.
Interestingly, the Unchained Monk seems to be a better combatant, however. At least as far as "Sit still and smack it" goes.
Though that is potentially debatable. A 2 level dip in MoMS is something the Brawler can benefit from, which can boost their damage output considerably.
I think flying kick being able to be part of a flurry of blows is going to make a big difference in the damage output/wasted damage potential output of the two classes.
Having something drop after a strike or two and then being able to move 10+ feet to continue the flurry is a nice boost to monk damage efficiency.
Thanks for the replies. I probably shouldn't have asked for this comparison now. ACG has so many issues that when they come out with a new book there will be a big Ver. 2 on the front cover. :)
I had a fit trying to make a shield champion and realizing just how screwed up it was.
Anyway, thanks.
The Brawler is infinitely more flexible than the Unchained Monk.
Interestingly, the Unchained Monk seems to be a better combatant, however. At least as far as "Sit still and smack it" goes.
Though that is potentially debatable. A 2 level dip in MoMS is something the Brawler can benefit from, which can boost their damage output considerably.
Even without the dip, pummeling feats were fairly much designed to work with brawlers in solving unarmed build problems. It gets the bonus feats right when it needs the to grab pummeling feats.
Flying kick is solving a problem which already had a solution. And, unless the unchained monk has something that makes it obsolete, the pummeling style feat by itself is still one of the best options (since it solves all concerns about DR by plowing right through it).
That, combined with the absurd critical thing still makes pummeling style an obvious 'go to'.
The Brawler is infinitely more flexible than the Unchained Monk.
Interestingly, the Unchained Monk seems to be a better combatant, however. At least as far as "Sit still and smack it" goes.
Though that is potentially debatable. A 2 level dip in MoMS is something the Brawler can benefit from, which can boost their damage output considerably.
Even without the dip, pummeling feats were fairly much designed to work with brawlers in solving unarmed build problems. It gets the bonus feats right when it needs the to grab pummeling feats.
Flying kick is solving a problem which already had a solution. And, unless the unchained monk has something that makes it obsolete, the pummeling style feat by itself is still one of the best options (since it solves all concerns about DR by plowing right through it).
That, combined with the absurd critical thing still makes pummeling style an obvious 'go to'.
Pumelling style solves a having to move so no full attack issue, flying kick solves a "full attacking this is overkill but its all im adjacent to" issue. Pooling both together makes it so that if the thing you charge with pumelling style doesn't drop immediately but is significantly hurt you don't waste "uptime" by killing it in 1 or 2 hits then being done.
Since you dont get to see the bad guys HP just using Pummeling style all the time is most likely best unless you figth folks you can take Down with one swing. Brawling enchantment and figther feats is a good way to keep brawler in the good end when it comes to to hit.
Does anybody understand how pummeling style interacts with style strikes in general. Pummeling style being considered a single strike with multiple attack rolls (I think) puts it in a really weird position.
I have a monk player in a recently started campaign asking how I am ruling on this. I would actually like to get it right if there *is* a right answer.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Since you dont get to see the bad guys HP just using Pummeling style all the time is most likely best unless you figth folks you can take Down with one swing. Brawling enchantment and figther feats is a good way to keep brawler in the good end when it comes to to hit.
I only know of one method of finding out hp, and that is a specific slayer ability...which is honestly not that crucial.
Heck, I think it is possibly more useful for guessing how many hit dice the other side has than anything (ie- "why does this level 1 commoner girl have the same hp as the average succubus", or "those guards are weak, but they will yell and alert all the guards-they look low level enough for a hypnotism to work though")
|
Does anybody understand how pummeling style interacts with style strikes in general. Pummeling style being considered a single strike with multiple attack rolls (I think) puts it in a really weird position.
I have a monk player in a recently started campaign asking how I am ruling on this. I would actually like to get it right if there *is* a right answer.
Technically, RAW, you can't combine them. Pummeling Style is its own action, not a Flurry of Blows, and can thus not benefit from Style Strikes.
It's specifically noted that it's an action that allows you to take the same number of attacks as a flurry of blows, but that doesn't technically make it a flurry.
RAI are more ambiguous, but RAW, style strikes and Pummeling Style cannot be combined.
Does anybody understand how pummeling style interacts with style strikes in general. Pummeling style being considered a single strike with multiple attack rolls (I think) puts it in a really weird position.
I have a monk player in a recently started campaign asking how I am ruling on this. I would actually like to get it right if there *is* a right answer.
Technically, RAW, you can't combine them. Pummeling Style is its own action, not a Flurry of Blows, and can thus not benefit from Style Strikes.
It's specifically noted that it's an action that allows you to take the same number of attacks as a flurry of blows, but that doesn't technically make it a flurry.
RAI are more ambiguous, but RAW, style strikes and Pummeling Style cannot be combined.
By that same interpretation, monks can't use ki to give an extra attack while using pummeling strike, because pummeling strike isn't flurry (mumble mumble stupid badly written rules mumble mumble).
I am seriously tempted to houserule pummeling style to function as a flurry but with an unarmed only Clustered Shots effect. I think that this probably solves the issue nicely (I will ask the monk player first though, since this houserule is being done for them).
|
Pummeling Strike + Style Strikes should really be its own thread...
Coming back to the original topic, how do you feel the two classes compare?
Personally, I think the UC Monk steps on the Brawlers toes big-time. UC Flurry is cleaner and simpler than Brawlers Flurry, and the Style Strikes give the Monk a certain amount of rough-and-tumbleness that really should be with the Brawler. No esoteric Monk should have game rules for a headbutt if the Brawler can't get in on that action.
I'm looking into house rule balance to use the UC Flurry with the Brawler starting at 1st level instead of Brawlers Flurry, and trying to work out some way of adding the Style Strikes with the Brawler as well.
The Flurry transfer is simple enough, but when and how to add the Style Strikes I'm still working on. A 1 for 1 transfer seems a little like overkill.
I am also considering switching the UC Monk's good Fort for good Wil saves, to differentiate the classes.
Ryn, who wants his boxers and his shaolin
You signing your posts with "Ryn" is really off-putting to me.
Since you dont get to see the bad guys HP just using Pummeling style all the time is most likely best unless you figth folks you can take Down with one swing. Brawling enchantment and figther feats is a good way to keep brawler in the good end when it comes to to hit.
You don't need to know an exact hp number to realize that if you pummeling struck something non bbeg for like 80% of your own max hp that its probably unlikely to need another dose of 80% of your own hp to go down.
|
I am seriously tempted to houserule pummeling style to function as a flurry but with an unarmed only Clustered Shots effect. I think that this probably solves the issue nicely (I will ask the monk player first though, since this houserule is being done for them).
Personally, I'd rather have Style Strikes/Ki point attacks not work with a pummeling style and keep the crit effects than have them and just nerf it to clustered shot for unarmed.
As a 20/x2 weapon, unarmed needs the crit effects of pummeling style more than the clustered shots.
I am seriously tempted to houserule pummeling style to function as a flurry but with an unarmed only Clustered Shots effect. I think that this probably solves the issue nicely (I will ask the monk player first though, since this houserule is being done for them).Personally, I'd rather have Style Strikes/Ki point attacks not work with a pummeling style and keep the crit effects than have them and just nerf it to clustered shot for unarmed.
As a 20/x2 weapon, unarmed needs the crit effects of pummeling style more than the clustered shots.
My player has a suli PC and no power attack (didn't have slots for it after a suli feat and combat stamina). A better crit chance isn't that much help at their current stage.
They also have a thing for "style points". Doing a flying kick as part of an attack routine after a pummeling charge(which he will get eventually) sounds so much cooler than a better crit chance, even if the crit chance is mechanically superior.