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Actually, now that I think about it, the biggest problem with summoning a draconic or a lovecraftian, is that one is a dragon, and the other is an abberation. Neither is an outsider, or, for that matter, an extraplanar fey.Techically, primal dragons are all extraplanar and are valid targets for Gate spells even if they aren't outsiders. Thematically they work just fine as eidolons. Luckily we can kind of mimic them with elemental eidolons, but it isn't a perfect fit.
Why not? They are from the elemental planes, I would think that modeling them with elementals is a very good fit. They even seem to have the right movement types. (except cloud dragon, which has swim, not fly according to d20pfsrd, which I am hoping is an error.) Umbral is the only one that seems to be a problem.
Why not? They are from the elemental planes, I would think that modeling them with elementals is a very good fit. They even seem to have the right movement types. (except cloud dragon, which has swim, not fly according to d20pfsrd, which I am hoping is an error.) Umbral is the only one that seems to be a problem.Actually, now that I think about it, the biggest problem with summoning a draconic or a lovecraftian, is that one is a dragon, and the other is an abberation. Neither is an outsider, or, for that matter, an extraplanar fey.Techically, primal dragons are all extraplanar and are valid targets for Gate spells even if they aren't outsiders. Thematically they work just fine as eidolons. Luckily we can kind of mimic them with elemental eidolons, but it isn't a perfect fit.
Well, technically the primal dragons don't get all the immunities that elementals get, so they are obviously just stand ins for real dragons. Primal dragons should be getting spell resistance and fear auras instead of immunity to critical hits and such.
Selecting all the powers that a dragon *should* have is extremely expensive, and some of them are prime candidates for abilities that should be part of their eidolon subtype.
Edit: For example, selecting the evolutions Breath Weapon(3/day), Blindsense, Spell Resistance, and Frightful Presense eat up a total of 14(!) evolution points. Unless you are a Half-Elf or something, that eats up all of your evolution points at *level 18*, and you haven't even spent any of them on the other iconic dragon stuff like claws, wings, and a tail slap!
If anything needs its own eidolon type, it is dragons. In fact, the way eidolon types can make it less painful to get these sorts of iconic abilities is one of the things I like the most about the unchained summoner (even if I think they reduced the main evolution pool a bit too much).
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I think we need Kytons, Aeons as Outsiders subtypes at least (maybe Demodands and Qlippoths too) then some kind of Dragon and Fey
I do like how these eidolon subtypes make it much easier for the devs to create new types of eidolons. What used to take an entire archetype now just needs a single entry that takes 1/4th of a page.
Though, I guess if they wanted more exotic types of eidolons (such as fey or dragons) to be closer to the real thing then their hit dice would need to be adjusted.
I do like how these eidolon subtypes make it much easier for the devs to create new types of eidolons. What used to take an entire archetype now just needs a single entry that takes 1/4th of a page.
Though, I guess if they wanted more exotic types of eidolons (such as fey or dragons) to be closer to the real thing then their hit dice would need to be adjusted.
It would be part of the eidolon type, something about having a different type and hd just before the level 1 ability
Kytons, Aeons
Thank you for reminding me about these.
*goes back to scribbling things that may one day become words*
I'm surprised friggin' Divs got in before those lol
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Well, technically the primal dragons don't get all the immunities that elementals get, so they are obviously just stand ins for real dragons. Primal dragons should be getting spell resistance and fear auras instead of immunity to critical hits and such.
There is some justice to that. I admit that I don't see that as a flaw with the class so much as an opportunity for further expansions. I like the idea that eidolons have to start with a certain package based on their origin, but then can be adjusted from there. I would love to see more packages, but I would like to not go back to "well, just take whatever part you like and don't worry about taking the thematically appropriate but non optimized bits. (which was a problem with the old summoner. The good old "sure my eidolon is a fire elemental but why waste evo points on fire resistance when I can just cast endure elements on it and get the same effect. I'll dump those points into hitting harder.")
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Can someone post an actual eidolon concept/build that is now impossible, so we have something to work with rather than "Lovecraft thing"?
My Eidolon fits the mindset for Protean more or less, but she's also a primarily humanoid shaped creature, which is not an allowable subtype for Protean.
Everything I've heard of the unchained summoner is that the outsider types are what we've been given instead of real choice to build something other than the dpr monster. In addition, our options to deviate from the dpr monster model is even more curtailed.
Even as a lover of the class, I'll admit that in the grand scheme of things even the Unchained summoners have loads of creativity when designing their Eidolons, nevermind what the Evolved Summoners can do with their open canvases. (We shouldn't call the old version Chained.... I doubt anyone would really consider that an apt term.)
While some options are closed (anything that requires decent Int) the Skilled evolution alone can let you build anything from a socialite, to a biological wikipedia, to a world renowned clothier. While Fighters and Barbarians, entire full PCs, have nothing to build but martials who only have their DPR as a metric to measure their relevancy.
The only reason summoner was considered "broken" is because pfs' stat generation for characters is so low of a point buy that the free stats of any pet class will out class martials in that context. A better solution was to make pets stats dependent on the parent or as a function of the campaign, eg. If the pc point buy is 15 the pets get 10. See look I've fixed 99% of the problems while opening up build options.
Eidolons with a single high stat (Serpentine/Biped) start out with stats that count up to a 12 point buy. I'm sure Animal Companions qualify at a similar if not lower number thanks to their tanked Int. Though I'll freely admit they gain many "monster advantages" to help compensate, such as scaling natural AC and things like natural flight, pounce, and special senses that humanoid PCs could only get through the expendeture of expensive items or magical know-how.
If anything, the design of ACs and Eidolons is literally three dimensional compared to a two dimensional martial, allowing them to approach dynamic encounters from angles that many mundane PCs simply cannot. In many ways, they're the middle ground in the gulf between martials and casters in terms of utility.
But no, I don't think fudging a few numbers at the start of the game (when they get +8 strength from going Large) is going to do more than make them slightly less impressive at levels 1-4, where Greatsword Matials already earn the spotlight.
*goes back to scribbling things that may one day become words*
Why stop there? Let's get really crazy.
- A time traveling future version of the Summoner who became an Eidolon as part of the process to meet up with their past selves to prevent a catastrophe. (Like what the BBEG wanted to do)- Bringing back Undead Eidolons. Kids love Skeletons!
- Genie, with some really basic creation spells and maybe a floating Skilled evolution bonus relating to what the summoner "wished" for that day.
- Something akin to the Magus' Black Blade, a living, sentient weapon. Give it a lower evolution pool, but let evolutions modify it.
- Formians. Mistook it's Summoner for a Queen. Or maybe the Eidolon -is- the queen, and we can have a subtype that somewhat mimics the Broodmaster archetype in some way?
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- Bringing back Undead Eidolons. Kids love Skeletons!
As far as I can tell, everything from Ultimate Magic is still usable as is. (though celestial and fiendish appearance may be somewhat redundant, I haven't looked closely.)
So you can still have your skeleton Eidolon. You just have to figure out what plane it is from. Some may not make sense. (Skeleton air elemental???) Others are just fine. (In fact some published psychopomps appear skeletal even though they are not treated as undead, so those don't even need the undead apperance evolution if that is all you want.)
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Oh I'm sure this terrible rendition of summoner will have support. They finally caught on to the video game trend of selling you half of a product and then later selling the rest as add-ons. Pathfinder season passes for all...
On topic, yes thank you for a shell of an awesome class with less versatility and creativity due to the caws a minority. Still hoping my gm never sees that book.
Oh I'm sure this terrible rendition of summoner will have support. They finally caught on to the video game trend of selling you half of a product and then later selling the rest as add-ons. Pathfinder season passes for all...
On topic, yes thank you for a shell of an awesome class with less versatility and creativity due to the caws a minority. Still hoping my gm never sees that book.
As much as I think Paizo can screw up badly at times, selling an incomplete product is not one of their flaws (terribly edited and/or written, sometimes yes, incomplete, no).
Besides, manipulative dishonest anti-customer sales tactics and the OGL do not get on well.
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Ummm.... Korthis, where have you been for the last 40 years of RPG development? Selling you the skeleton of the system and then packaging the add ons so people only have to buy the parts of the system they want is the entire industry. They perfected that before there *were* video games. (Okay, slight hyperbole there, but not much.)
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In fact, we added as many subtypes as possible in there. I was super stoked that I was able to work with Jason in order to somehow fit in psychopomps, agathions, and divs as extras, after the initial set.
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In fact, we added as many subtypes as possible in there. I was super stoked that I was able to work with Jason in order to somehow fit in psychopomps, agathions, and divs as extras, after the initial set.
Especially the Psychopomps. They're my favorite kind of outsider and their take as Eidolons is some of the most interesting class-based fluff I've seen this side of Inner Sea Gods. And hey, a Quadruped Psychopomp let's me play as a Ghost Dog both figuratively and literally.
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In fact, we added as many subtypes as possible in there. I was super stoked that I was able to work with Jason in order to somehow fit in psychopomps, agathions, and divs as extras, after the initial set.Especially the Psychopomps. They're my favorite kind of outsider and their take as Eidolons is some of the most interesting class-based fluff I've seen this side of Inner Sea Gods. And hey, a Quadruped Psychopomp let's me play as a Ghost Dog both figuratively and literally.
While I wasn't the one who got to design the summoner itself, I did write almost all of the flavor text for the subtypes, so I'm glad you enjoyed! Psychopomps are a favorite of mine too ever since I wrote a psychopomp planetouched race that one of my players has been playing in Jade Regent.
I was super stoked that I was able to work with Jason in order to somehow fit in psychopomps, agathions, and divs as extras, after the initial set.
I thought that was your influence there. :)
Mark, I don't suppose you can confirm if there are plans for more subtypes in the summoners Guide coming out in June(?)
I honestly don't know what's in the Player Companions, so I physically can't confirm anything. I would say based on the timing that it's basically impossible that they would have been ordered for the book initially (it's too soon after the release; the freelancers couldn't possibly have had access), but I also know Owen has been doing some awesome developer kung fu involving using Unchained, so even if not, they could be in other PComps, perhaps!
Also, can you help us understand why the decision was made to not allow any of the good races to take the mount evolution?
I'm not sure about agathions. The other ones mostly don't have the correct base forms anyway (and the azata serpentine has arms like the lillend, which would make it both a little odd and kind of risque).
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I honestly don't know what's in the Player Companions, so I physically can't confirm anything. I would say based on the timing that it's basically impossible that they would have been ordered for the book initially (it's too soon after the release; the freelancers couldn't possibly have had access), but I also know Owen has been doing some awesome developer kung fu involving iusing Unchained, so even if not, they could be in other PComps, perhaps!Mark, I don't suppose you can confirm if there are plans for more subtypes in the summoners Guide coming out in June(?)
Sweet. My Wayang would very much like a shadow plane eidolon (he has settled for a protean, but shadow would make even more sense)
Psychopomps are a favorite of mine too ever since I wrote a psychopomp planetouched race that one of my players has been playing in Jade Regent.
[shameless plug]
Book of Heroic Races: Reapers, which has a well-earned 5-STAR review.[/shameless plug]
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Also, can you help us understand why the decision was made to not allow any of the good races to take the mount evolution?I'm not sure about agathions. The other ones mostly don't have the correct base forms anyway (and the azata serpentine has arms like the lillend, which would make it both a little odd and kind of risque).
Wierdly, the devil *does* get mount, but can't use it because it doesn't have a base form that qualifies.
Maybe someone needs to take a look at that list?
Also, can you help us understand why the decision was made to not allow any of the good races to take the mount evolution?I'm not sure about agathions. The other ones mostly don't have the correct base forms anyway (and the azata serpentine has arms like the lillend, which would make it both a little odd and kind of risque).Wierdly, the devil *does* get mount, but can't use it because it doesn't have a base form that qualifies.
Maybe someone needs to take a look at that list?
I honestly can't remember. I know that I was a part of the process, but it's been a while. My guess, based on vague memories, is that there was a hellcat-like devil earlier on but it wound up being off-theme, with mount staying due to there being so many moving parts. I consider removing devil an erratum to make. I am very pleased with how few there have been in Unchained, but that's one of them. Considering how much flux there was with so many subtypes (and especially I'm glad the three new subtypes were all in order, since they came in afterwards), it seemed almost inevitable (pun intended) that something would come up.
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Also, can you help us understand why the decision was made to not allow any of the good races to take the mount evolution?I'm not sure about agathions. The other ones mostly don't have the correct base forms anyway (and the azata serpentine has arms like the lillend, which would make it both a little odd and kind of risque).
I'd just like to point out that the bestiary entry for Agathions says the following: "Some are more humanoid in appearance, while others spend their entire existence in a form nearly identical to that of a true animal". Since you can effectively have Agathions that are nearly identical to real world creatures, the mount evolution fits them perfectly.
Sooo, if you guys do end up errating away the mount evolution for devils, we'd appreciate it being added for the Agathions ;)
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here is the whole list, reordered by who gets what:
All
Climb
Gills
Improved Damage
Improved Natural Armor
Magic Attacks
Pull
Push
Reach
Resistance
Scent
Skilled
Slam
Wing Buffet
Ability Increase (1 per 6 lvl)
Energy Attack (5th lvl)
Flight (5th lvl)
Grab
Immunity (7th lvl)
Limbs
Rend (6th lvl, claws)
Tremor Sense (7th lvl)
Weapons Training
Blindsense (9th lvl)
Burrow (9th lvl)
Damage reduction (15th lvl, and subtype has DR)
Frightful Presense (11th lvl)
Blindsight(11th lvl, blindsense)
Breath Weapon(9th lvl)
Fast Healing (11th lvl)
Large / Huge (8th lvl / 13th lvl, medium)
SR (9th lvl)
Biped
Trample
Quadruped
Rake (4th level) – Weird, you can have rake even if you cannot have claws…
Trample
Pounce (7th lvl)
Serpentine
Constrict
Agathion
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Gore
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Biped
Quadruped
Angel
Biped
Archon
Biped
Azata
Biped
Serpentine
Daemon
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Tentacle
Gore
Poison (7th lvl, bite or sting)
Trip
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Web (7th lvl, climb)
Biped
Quadruped
Mount
Serpentine
Mount
Demon
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Tentacle
Gore
Poison (7th lvl, bite or sting)
Trip (bite)
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Web (7th lvl, climb)
Biped
Quadruped
Mount
Serpentine
Mount
Devil
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Gore
Poison (7th lvl, bite or sting)
Trip (bite)
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Biped
Type / Baseform conflict
Mount
Div
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Gore
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Biped
Elemental
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Gore
Poison (7th lvl, bite or sting)
Trip (bite)
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Biped
Quadruped
Mount
Serpentine
Mount
Inevitable
Biped
Protean
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Tentacle
Gore
Poison (7th lvl, bite or sting)
Trip (bite)
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Web (7th lvl, climb)
Serpentine
Mount
Psychopomp
Bite
Claws
Pincers
Sting
Tail
Tail Slap
Gore
Poison (7th lvl, bite or sting)
Swallow Whole (9th lvl, Grab (bite))
Biped
Quadruped
Serpentine
I'll go back and add the baked ins later when I have more time, which (I hope) will make it a little more balanced. My initial impression is that the more chaotic and animalistic you are, the more options you have.
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And really, Rend should not be listed under 'All' as it requires claws... so should be listed under those that can get claws.
I did it that way because I think there may be at least one where the subtype grants claws to it's base type, but can't select the claws evolution. They could, in that case get rend, even though they can't take claws. (And if there isn't one like that, there might be one in future)
I think it is less good vs evil as Animal Featured Vs Human featured, and many of the good archtypes seem to be resolutely humanoid centric.
That said, I think there is a lot of room for a celestial/infernal/(lawful)/(chaotic) animal subtype. I mean, people are summoning those celestial eagles from somewhere, right?
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I agree with everything you just said except the limbs to serpentine = biped.
In addition to the mechanical concerns I raised above, 4 evo points is a *huge* point sink given the reduced pool available.
I would probably just go with a different subtype and see if the viewpoint could be reflavored.
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And again, you couldn't make an agathian mount with lay on hands in the old system, because there *was* no lay on hands.
Granted, I don't understand why none of the quad good outsiders can take mount, and I'm hoping that is an error that gets fixed.
This is actually exactly what I wanted to do as well. I'm also hoping that this gets adjusted.
Overall I'm conflicted but generally happy with it. Heck, I'mexpectinghoping for additional support in the future, with more subtypes added on for variety's sake. That way we'll get more variety in something that really needs it, and the Unchained Monk won't be an archetype-free island.
There is already third-party support to modify archetypes for the chained monk so they are compatible with the unchained monk. I'm not going to claim to being an uber-reviewer, but in my glance through, I thought it was well done.
After looking over this new modified summoner I'm so disappointed. The problems that my group faced over and over again with the class weren't fixed to the extent that they should have been. They took a big step in the right direction but not a big enough of one.
Looks like the Unchained summoner will have to join the previous summoner on my banned list for my upcoming campaign :(
After looking over this new modified summoner I'm so disappointed. The problems that my group faced over and over again with the class weren't fixed to the extent that they should have been. They took a big step in the right direction but not a big enough of one.
Looks like the Unchained summoner will have to join the previous summoner on my banned list for my upcoming campaign :(
What problem are you having? Why do you not have the same problems with other "pet" classes? Do you play low magic, low level, or low point buy?
What problem are you having? Why do you not have the same problems with other "pet" classes? Do you play low magic, low level, or low point buy?After looking over this new modified summoner I'm so disappointed. The problems that my group faced over and over again with the class weren't fixed to the extent that they should have been. They took a big step in the right direction but not a big enough of one.
Looks like the Unchained summoner will have to join the previous summoner on my banned list for my upcoming campaign :(
Crazy high AC was a problem and based on what I see it still will be. The evolution points got dropped down alot but that just made it so the player takes just what they need instead of everything they want.
I may be wrong but just after doing some simple math on the class it still seems like it'll be a problem. I'd rather be safe than sorry for MY home campaign.
If anyone can shed some light on to the class a bit more, maybe someone who has playtested it at multiple levels such as 1,5,10?
What problem are you having? Why do you not have the same problems with other "pet" classes? Do you play low magic, low level, or low point buy?After looking over this new modified summoner I'm so disappointed. The problems that my group faced over and over again with the class weren't fixed to the extent that they should have been. They took a big step in the right direction but not a big enough of one.
Looks like the Unchained summoner will have to join the previous summoner on my banned list for my upcoming campaign :(
Crazy high AC was a problem and based on what I see it still will be. The evolution points got dropped down alot but that just made it so the player takes just what they need instead of everything they want.
I may be wrong but just after doing some simple math on the class it still seems like it'll be a problem. I'd rather be safe than sorry for MY home campaign.
If anyone can shed some light on to the class a bit more, maybe someone who has playtested it at multiple levels such as 1,5,10?
From someone who plays higher power games, all I can say is if given the option between a summoner and druid I'd nearly always pick the druid every time. Druid can do everything the summoner can do better, all at the same time, fight better himself, don't have to share magic item slots, and all while having better casting.
As for the "crazy high AC" what are we talking here? The eidolon can't wear armor so only progression, spells, and evolution points. I'll take a biped base level 5 and see what I can come up with: +2 dex, +2 natural armor, +4 progression, +2 evolution point x 1, +4 mage armor, added all together this gives us 24. 24 is a pretty good AC for 5th level now it could be 1 point higher if you put 2 eps into ability dex but that's only 1 point left for other things which isn't much but the 24 is without any gold burned so I say it's pretty good so far.
Now lets look at a tanky animal companion since the offensive ones have quite a bit lower armor class. Lets take the snapping turtle; +0 dex, +10 natural armor, +2 na progress, +2 barkskin, so from just progression and 1 spell the turtle has 24 ac. Here's where things get interesting because the companion can wear armor if the player chooses so, it can even take the higher armor feats if so desired. So at light armor it can wear a chain shirt barding for an extra +4 or more if enchanted so it's already 4 points over the eidolon at 28 but it could if it spent its feats get up to heavy armor and wear full plate (unlikely but possible) which would get it another 5 over the light to a 33 ac. Now I'll admit the turtle probably isn't the best tanky companion but if you want to build for ac below 8 he's top of the list for massive natural armor bonus.
Also I'll note you didn't answer my other quests about your campaign which I'm going to assume are a partial cause to this view point? I'm going to assume you're playing in a low powerish game, maybe low magic, maybe low gold, could be low stat generation but this will wildly favor "pet" classes over martials since the pets come with zero adjustments for power level of the campaign. This type of campaign will also highly favor summons as well so consider this fair warning.
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What problem are you having? Why do you not have the same problems with other "pet" classes? Do you play low magic, low level, or low point buy?After looking over this new modified summoner I'm so disappointed. The problems that my group faced over and over again with the class weren't fixed to the extent that they should have been. They took a big step in the right direction but not a big enough of one.
Looks like the Unchained summoner will have to join the previous summoner on my banned list for my upcoming campaign :(
Crazy high AC was a problem and based on what I see it still will be. The evolution points got dropped down alot but that just made it so the player takes just what they need instead of everything they want.
I may be wrong but just after doing some simple math on the class it still seems like it'll be a problem. I'd rather be safe than sorry for MY home campaign.
If anyone can shed some light on to the class a bit more, maybe someone who has playtested it at multiple levels such as 1,5,10?
Crazy high AC is mitigated (somewhat) by their inability to wear armor.
So far, my summoner has played one game, got his clock completely cleaned. But that may have had something to do with playing a level 2 in and adventure designed for 4-5... :) (That and being completely unable to roll above a 8 the whole first fight, followed by a really elementary tactical error in the second fight.)
So it's not really a good test. I'll let you guys know how Thursday goes.
What about Mage Armor and Bracers of armor?
Unless you're running something like a Kensai or Dex monk Eidolan AC scales faster than PC AC does.
What problem are you having? Why do you not have the same problems with other "pet" classes? Do you play low magic, low level, or low point buy?After looking over this new modified summoner I'm so disappointed. The problems that my group faced over and over again with the class weren't fixed to the extent that they should have been. They took a big step in the right direction but not a big enough of one.
Looks like the Unchained summoner will have to join the previous summoner on my banned list for my upcoming campaign :(
Crazy high AC was a problem and based on what I see it still will be. The evolution points got dropped down alot but that just made it so the player takes just what they need instead of everything they want.
I may be wrong but just after doing some simple math on the class it still seems like it'll be a problem. I'd rather be safe than sorry for MY home campaign.
If anyone can shed some light on to the class a bit more, maybe someone who has playtested it at multiple levels such as 1,5,10?
From someone who plays higher power games, all I can say is if given the option between a summoner and druid I'd nearly always pick the druid every time. Druid can do everything the summoner can do better, all at the same time, fight better himself, don't have to share magic item slots, and all while having better casting.
As for the "crazy high AC" what are we talking here? The eidolon can't wear armor so only progression, spells, and evolution points. I'll take a biped base level 5 and see what I can come up with: +2 dex, +2 natural armor, +4 progression, +2 evolution point x 1, +4 mage armor, added all together this gives us 24. 24 is a pretty good AC for 5th level now it could be 1 point higher if you put 2 eps into ability dex but that's only 1 point left for other things which isn't much but the 24 is without any gold burned so I say it's pretty good so far.
Now lets look at a tanky animal...
Who cares about actual armor. With the combination of Mage Armor, Shield and Barkskin which the Eidolon can benefit from all and a naturally progressing Nat armor and evolution points to invest in it. It became a serious problem for the dm and party when the Eidolon had an AC of 40 at level 10 with a single standard action from the party. Also that turtle is only going to get 1 attack per turn while the old eidolon could crank out like 5/6 at that level with insane mobility and reach. It quickly outclassed literally every other character at the table making them completely useless.
Thats what I don't want in my campaign and I'm not convinced they have fixed that with the Unchained Summoner.
Crazy high AC is mitigated (somewhat) by their inability to wear armor.
So far, my summoner has played one game, got his clock completely cleaned. But that may have had something to do with playing a level 2 in and adventure designed for 4-5... :) (That and being completely unable to roll above a 8 the whole first fight, followed by a really elementary tactical error in the second fight.)
So it's not really a good test. I'll let you guys know how Thursday goes.
I covered the magic item sharing and in ability to wear armor in my example post.
What about Mage Armor and Bracers of armor?
Unless you're running something like a Kensai or Dex monk Eidolan AC scales faster than PC AC does.
I covered this as well, mage armor was factored in the original eidolons ac for 5th level. Because of the magic item sharing of the summoner it's advisable to not use the bracers.
Who cares about actual armor. With the combination of Mage Armor, Shield and Barkskin which the Eidolon can benefit from all and a naturally progressing Nat armor and evolution points to invest in it. It became a serious problem for the dm and party when the Eidolon had an AC of 40 at level 10 with a single standard action from the party. Also that turtle is only going to get 1 attack per turn while the old eidolon could crank out like 5/6 at that level with insane mobility and reach. It quickly outclassed literally every other character at the table making them completely useless.
Thats what I don't want in my campaign and I'm not convinced they have fixed that with the Unchained Summoner.
Again you've overwhelmingly confirmed my assumption about the campaign you play in by completely dismissing example numbers with no counter example, using the old eidolon as reference when the new one was being discussed, complained about the whole party spending resources to buff the old eidolon, and brought nothing back to the discussion You asked for.
My suggestions is to tell the dm to put in more treasure and gold, and maybe bump up the point buy. A well funded and buffed martial is going to be better than the eidolon; a poorly funded, low powered, unbuffed martial is going to be awful at 10+ level in any game. I would offer more examples and number but you've proven you don't actually care about that just the bias you already have from being shown up. I'll offer one more piece of advice though beware of the well played druid/hunter or you'll realize the tiger you think you see is nothing more than a kitten.
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We must play in very different games. By level 10, PC tanks I run into seem to have ACs in the 38-42 range. (I don't play them, so I don't have the builds handy)
At level 10, an eidolon pounce beast has:
Dex 18
Natural Armor +8
Mage Armor +4
Shield +4
Barkskin +4
for a total of 24.
Lets assume he picked a sub type that gives him flight to get the mobility you wanted.
He has 8 evo points;
Claws (1)
Rake (2)
Rend (2)
Pounce (3)
Okay, thats all of them.
He has reach 5. Move 40 (although it is flight)
Lets say we want to make him large. That will cost him 4 evo points. Lets assume we use evo surge, (another action, and it has limited time.)
He now has reach... 5. Oh yeah, you only get extra reach from size large if your form is humanoid...
Okay, lets give him reach (maybe we had an extra evo point from feats or fcb.) He now has reach... 5. Except on a single attack that has reach 10. And reach can only be taken once.
Where are you seeing this high AC and reach?
If I had some time I could probably build a lvl 10 pounce barbarian with more natural attacks, more ac, more reach and more damage.