Three summoner questions


Rules Questions


1. Does Summoner cast summon monster spells (not SLAs - I'm talking about spells from summoner spell list) as standard actions and are their durations increased?

RAW wrote:
He can cast this spell as a standard action, and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level).

The confusion mostly comes from the word spell. Usually when rules refer to the ability (in this case, the SLA version) it says something along the lines "he can use this ability as a standard action".

2. If an eidolon has gear (eg. manufactured weapons and magical items) and is dismissed or banished to its native plane (be it due to dismissal or banishment spell or taking enough damage), what happens to the gear? Is it banished with the eidolon? Does it return with the eidolon once it's summoned again? Or does the gear just stay on the Material Plane for anyone to pick up?

3. Do creatures summoned using summon monster SLA benefit from Augment Summoning? Again, the feat says "summon monster spell" which makes me doubt it works on SLAs.

Thanks a bunch!

Silver Crusade Contributor

I believe any spell-like ability counts as a spell for any other effect that can work with spells, unless specifically forbidden or generally incompatible (e.g., Quicken Spell and SLAs not using spell slots).

However, I could be wrong. I'm sure others can quote rules and such to prove me right/wrong. :)

Sczarni

1) If the Summoner casts an actual Summon Monster spell then it takes one round to cast, as normal. Only their SLA is a standard action.

2) Since the Eidolon always appears without gear, any gear you give it remains behind if it is banished or dismissed.

3) It's in the FAQ.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Re: #1, can you cite any sources for your position? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, just curious about the structure that led to your conclusion. :)


Hmmm. Even I'm not going to touch that one.


Thanks Nefreet. One more question came to mind:

4. Can Reach evolution be applied to an attack made with a manufactured weapon?

RAW wrote:
Reach (Ex): One of the eidolon’s attacks is capable of striking foes at a distance. Select one attack. The eidolon’s reach with that attack increases by 5 feet.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
MightyGlacier wrote:

Thanks Nefreet. One more question came to mind:

4. Can Reach evolution be applied to an attack made with a manufactured weapon?

RAW wrote:
Reach (Ex): One of the eidolon’s attacks is capable of striking foes at a distance. Select one attack. The eidolon’s reach with that attack increases by 5 feet.

4. No.... reach is applied to natural attacks. But you can simply just give him a reach weapon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
Re: #1, can you cite any sources for your position? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, just curious about the structure that led to your conclusion. :)

There's nothing to cite. There doesn't need to be. the text about summon monster being a standard action, ONLY occurs in the block for the spell like ability. There's nothing in the summoner class that modifies any spells they cast through spell slots including Summon Monster.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Well, the ability does say "he can cast this spell as a standard action". It isn't exactly sky-is-blue, 100% airtight and unarguable reasoning. :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
Well, the ability does say "he can cast this spell as a standard action". It isn't exactly sky-is-blue, 100% airtight and unarguable reasoning. :)

That's specificaly in the text referring to the spell like ability, not casting out of his Vancian spell slots.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Is it true that a class feature can't modify spellcasting? This is a major change to my understanding of the game...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
Is it true that a class feature can't modify spellcasting? This is a major change to my understanding of the game...

That's not a correct interpretation. It's not that class features can't modify spell casting. There is simply no connection, no text that says that the rules for the Spell Like Ability apply to any spell cast through the Vancian slots. Casting Summon Monster 3 from the SLA is simply NOT the same action as casting it from the Vancian spell slots. Despite the spells being the same name, they are being cast through two entirely different mechanics, each with it's own rules set.


Kalindlara wrote:
Well, the ability does say "he can cast this spell as a standard action". It isn't exactly sky-is-blue, 100% airtight and unarguable reasoning. :)

It is, when you actually read the full description. Here's enough to demonstrate what the entry specifies:

Summon Monster wrote:
Starting at 1st level, a summoner can cast summon monster I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned. He can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level).

The paragraph structure regarding "spell" refers to the class feature the Summoner gets; it can't refer to the actual Summon Monster spell, because it's only referenced for the effects of the feature, for starters (it doesn't grant him actual uses of the spell), and the intent shows the adjusted benefits of this class feature because this ability cannot work in conjunction with their Eidolon class feature.

The entry does further state that the class feature counts as being on his spell list for the purposes of feats and other requirements that need it.

Silver Crusade Contributor

I will think this over - I'm very tired, if I seemed particularly obtuse. Thank you for your explanations. :)


For 2, it is worth noting that GMs usually don't make your Eidolon re-equip gear every day. Just don't give it the stolen treasure and dismiss it to cover evidence, and you'll probably be fine. This is, however, the rules thread.

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