Skull and Shackles: Recast


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


If Alahazra encounters a monster, can she play Recast to play an attack spell after her discard pile on the combat check against the monster? I'm wondering whether this would be breaking the rule regarding not playing more than one card of a type on a check.

Thanks,
Bill


I've considered Recast to be a card that lets you break that rule. That might just be me personally though.


I'm not even sure Recast is legal to play during an encounter, since it doesn't affect the step's required action on its own.


Hmmmm...I think you'd be right about that. This is one that hasn't made it into my hand yet.

Sovereign Court

Does Recast say you put a card into your hand, or does it specifically say you play the spell? If it says you'd play the spell, I'd actually think you could play it in an encounter.


It allows a character at your location to "play a spell from his discard pile" so I wouldn't think you'd have a problem playing the spell during an encounter.

Sovereign Court

On that wording, I'd say yes to during an encounter, but not on herself. She's played a spell during that step. I wouldn't read it as making an exception to the rule.


Hmm...So, what makes this different than Call Weapon or Phantasmal Minion?

Is it that that player is instructed to play it? Does the fact that you can look through your discard pile and verify that you have a spell that can be played during the encounter matter?

Just mostly thinking out loud here.


The difference between Recast and Call Weapon, for me at least, is that casting the spell is part of the same action. When you use call weapon, you can put the weapon in your hand, but then that event ends, and you independently decide whether to use the weapon or not. You could declare that it's obvious that you intend to use the weapon, but from a rules perspective there is no way it can tie the use of the weapon to the spell call weapon.

For recast, you are specifically casting a spell with it. It's all part of the same event. Because they are tied together, the game is able to identify that you are using a spell relevant to the encounter, and can give the proverbial thumbs-up. Essentially, as long as an action can be verified to be a valid action to an encounter before the action is resolved, it is legal.


So...is there a need for an official ruling on this card? I've been playing it the way (I think?) isaic16 is describing it. I've been doing that since it seems to me a natural way of understanding the card's intent, and its power. Furthermore, the check for recharging it is quite difficult, so there's a high chance that you'll only get to use Recast once.

Still, it would be nice to hear an official call on the use of this card.

Thanks,
Bill


I think an official ruling would be needed. It can go one of three ways:

a) Can't use during an encounter; or

b) Can use during an encounter if the target spell is legal, but the caster can't be the target character unless the target spell also doesn't count against the limit (eg, Quickened Ray);

c) Can use during an encounter, and the caster can be the target character.

---

I think b) is sensible - the target spell counts as the target character's played spell for the step, and Recast doesn't have anything saying that the caster can play another spell.

That would mean that Recast itself counts as the caster's spell, and thus the caster can't legally target herself with it during a check or step.

But let's be sure it's not a) or c) just in case.

Sovereign Court

That's exactly the reason they differ to me Hawkmoon. I think of it like Rage, you're using the card's power for the encounter.


The vast majority of the time you see "a character at your location" it is implied you may choose yourself. So it doesn't make sense to me that a spell like Recast would be different for no reason. It doesn't say "another character at your location". I'm with Hawkmoon's original instinct, that it implicitly allows you to (technically) cast two spells in one step.

Also I agree that it can be played during an combat check because it directly affects the check. Play this spell to play another spell, as opposed to Phantasmal Minion, Call Weapon, Tot Flask, etc. which says play this card to get another card in your hand, which in and of itself is not pertinent to the check.


Personally, I'm now pretty uncertain about this one. I definitely see it relates more to the check than something like Phantasmal Minion, Call Weapon or Tot Flask since you are being told to play it. And since you are getting it from a discard pile, you can know what spell you will choose before you play Recast (since you can examine your discard pile).

As to whether you can choose yourself or not, that I'm uncertain of and can see arguments on both sides. I do kind of feel that since playing it tells you to play another spell, it implicitly breaks the 1 card of each type rule. (I'm not remembering the exact wording right now, but if the character you choose it the one actually playing the spell, than that question is relevant for any target character that has already played a spell.) And, effectively, it doesn't really let you play 2 spells on the same check, since one spell is really being used to play the other. So only 1 spell is impacting the dice or the encounter itself. Recast is really just letting you play a spell from your discard pile instead of your hand. So I don't see it really breaking anything by letting you choose yourself during an encounter.

Having said that, I can definitely see the wording also being chosen so that you could choose yourself outside of an encounter, but not during an encounter. So you could Recast things like Cure or other things by letting them end up in your discard pile.

Sovereign Court

iMonkey, even when one thing tells you to do something, other things can still disallow it. If a location power says you can't search your deck, it doesn't matter that Call Weapon lets you, you can't do it. Just because Recast says "a character at your location", doesn't mean the "one per step" rule all of a sudden doesn't apply.

I don't think this is explicitly creating an exception to that rule.

It's definitely a FAQ-worthy question


Sure, I understand that. And I get that the wording isn't the same as some shields which say explicitly "you may play another armor on this check". But the spell is instructing you to play another spell. You are right, it doesn't explicitly create an exception. As I said above, it implicitly creates an exception since it causes you to break that rule without referring to it. Otherwise, I can't think of any situation where you could play Recast on yourself (possible I'm missing something).

I play the spell Recast. It says "a character at your location" so I choose myself because cards don't do what they don't say and it doesn't say I can't choose myself. Yes, the rulebook says one type of card per check, but whenever the rulebook and a card are in disagreement ...

IMO I think it works as it is. But I wouldn't be surprised if I were wrong and an FAQ is on the horizon.

And all this for a card I haven't even seen yet! XD


I don't think it needs an FAQ, it says specifically what it does on the card. That it may well break a general rule is not at all uncommon. Some cards let you move again for example.

Sovereign Court

iMonkey, the difference is the shields explicitly say YOU, so you know it's creating an exception. The spell isn't instructing YOU, it's instructing the chosen player. Even if you could choose yourself, there is a big difference between those two designations. This wouldn't be the first time a minor piece of text like this has been an error, and it doesn't explicitly or implicitly go one way or the other. So, I err on the side of caution and say it doesn't let you break the rule. You could play Recast at any time outside of an encounter. For example, Cure yourself then Recast that Cure.

Troymk, sure it isn't uncommon for cards to break rules, but when they do they say so, or it's so blatantly obvious that it breaks the rule (like moving, clearly that isn't going to be limited to only playing during the chosen player's move step, because then they can move anyways and it defeats the entire purpose of the card).

If we had a location that said players could not play cards from their discard pile, we wouldn't even be arguing the point. Something says you can't, this card doesn't say it changes that, that's just something players are assuming.

Sure it could go either way, but it is by no means obvious and does deserve an FAQ.


Was this ever resolved? We finally reached deck 6 of S&S and another player saw the card and had the exact same question.

I can understand both arguments:

1. You can play it on yourself because it says "choose a character" and not "another character" which means you can choose yourself, thereby implicitly allowing you to break the "no more than one type of card per check" rule.

2. You cannot play it on yourself because you are breaking said rule and the card does not explicitly say you can break the rule, in the same way that shields and other similar cards say you can.

Anything else? Probably depends on what the intention is. As I think more on it, it probably does need an FAQ either way.

Adventure Card Game Designer

We are awaiting a final FAQ ruling from Vic. Y'know, Paizocon.


How dare you all enjoy this game and other fine Paizo products (and licensed products and products unrelated to Paizo) and spend time with the people who play this fine game, often for so many hours on end that it is to the determent of your own health when you could have been discussing the fine nuances of the rules!

In all seriousness though, I was actually surprised you even mentioned that you discussed one of the other current questions. How did you have the time?

Sovereign Court

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Wait a minute Mike. Are you telling us Vic doesn't 24/7 stalk these forums to answer every single question and do our bidding, ignoring all other personal interests and responsibilities?

Geez, talk about terrible customer service...


PAIZOCON IS OVER GET BACK TO WORK

Jk. Seriously though, didn't mean to be rude, sorry. I love all the hard work you guys put into this awesome game :) I only asked because it had been a while and I often miss things!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Added to FAQ.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Added to FAQ.

That link doesn't work for me. It tells me I've made too many requests for that page. I know I like to read the FAQ and all, but I think the problem is with the link and not with me. I think it is missing the http:// part of the url.


You can target yourself during a check or step. If you do, Recast doesn't stop your other spell from being played. (Not stated but obvious: the target spell has to be legal for the situation.)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Added to FAQ.
That link doesn't work for me. It tells me I've made too many requests for that page. I know I like to read the FAQ and all, but I think the problem is with the link and not with me. I think it is missing the http:// part of the url.

Fixed. Thanks!

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