need help with this rouge


Advice


ok first off ill let you know that in the game that this rouge is being played the two drawbacks we can pick can grant us tow extra feats. with that said here is that rouges feat list so far my friend wants to keep the feats presented here. what we are looking for are 1-2 more feats to round off the last slots. this rouge build type btw way is designed to do a lot of different stuff as you can see. also this rouge will be using a greatsword as well.

1 Dodge,Mobility,improved initiative
2 power attack(rouge talent: feat)
3 Furious Focus
4 weapon focus(rouge talent: feat)
5 dazzling display
6 combat reflexes(rouge talent: feat)
7 Spring attack
8 combat expertise(rouge talent: feat)
9 whirlwind
10 vital strike(rouge talent: feat)
11 wind stance
12 step up(rouge talent: feat)
13 Devastating Strike
14 following step(rouge talent: feat)
15 improved vital strike
16 step up and strike(rouge talent: feat)
17 Gory finish
18 Improved Devastating Strike(rouge talent: feat)
19
20


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Before you start building a Rouge you should check with your DM if it's okay to pick such a strange class. I can't find it in any of my books so I'm assuming that it's 3PP.

However, from what you're trying to do, may I suggest the rogue class?
No, I'm just kidding. Don't play a rogue either (unless you're going for the Unchained which I don't know how it looks).

It seems like your build would be better of as a fighter, as you're not picking any rogue talants anyway (only combat feats).
With the fighter you'll get WAY higher AC and higher BAB and even more bonuses to hit.
What you'll lose is sneak attack (sneak attack isn't great anyway), skill ranks, trap feats and evasion.

So you'd go from lousy combatant + poor skill monkey to a strong combatant.
If you really want to play the rouge, play the rogue or rather the ninja.
Just check out Fighter, Slayer and the Unchained Rogue as well.


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Youtube has a lot of really good videos for doing your makeup.


Quote:
A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.

Unfortunately, you can only choose Combat Trick once.


Cleru wrote:
Quote:
A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.
Unfortunately, you can only choose Combat Trick once.

It may sound a little cheesy, but RAW a Rogue may still take Ninja Trick: Combat Trick to give you access to a second Combat Feat with Rogue Talents. There's also the Rogue Archetype (Swashbuckler) which allows you to select Combat Trick multiple times (I think 3 times more/total?)

Grand Lodge

Wait for Unchained.


Rogues & Ninjas can't take Combat Trick more than once. Its written as such under both classes. You can take the swashbuckler archetype to get it again though, for total of two combat tricks.


you might consider the circling mongoose feat, since you already grabbed its prerequisite feats, it might give you sneak attack for some attacks you wouldn't otherwise have it on, same with press to the wall.

Though echoing what others said; without house ruling you cannot take combat trick or the "feat: talent more than once normally.


yeah the restriction on the rogue talents is something we missed thanks for pointing that out. we will make the adjustments.


Lore Warden Fighter is a good 5 level dip, loses some sneak attack but gets you 4 feats, all int based skills as class skills, some CMB/CMD bonuses, and access to Gloves of Dueling and Weapon training for another +3/+3 attack and damage.

Also, as mentioned above, Slayer gets Ranger Combat Style feats as talent choices, with more BAB and better saves, losing some skill points and sneak attack dice.


thanks for the ad vice there guys we have the character now fleshed out. we went with 6lv fighter 3 levels ninja and 11 levels rogue
the feat list was pretty close to the afore mentioned list. so my buddy ended up with what he was wanting in the end anyways

Liberty's Edge

Uh...you can't take levels of both Ninja and Rogue.

Ninja is basically a super-archetype of Rogue so you can't take it and Rogue any more than you can take Rogue twice.

That said, Ninja 14/Fighter 6 loses out on very few Feats, and you could likely get even more by going Fighter 6/Slayer 14. For the record.

Grand Lodge

Why not Slayer?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why not Slayer?

This.

Unless you're going for something very specific, the investigator, bard(archaeologist), ranger, inquisitor, or slayer bring everything you probably wanted as a rogue and do it better.

We play gestalt e6 games and rogues fare pretty well in those conditions, Even then, that's largely just as a skill point source for out-of-combat utility. I still find other classes delivering more options and with almost the same bennies, plus benefits the rogue class can't deliver at all.

3rd party products (and possibly Pathfinder Unnchained...I'll have to see it) can help fix some of this, though.


morkoll wrote:
ok first off ill let you know that in the game that this rouge is being played the two drawbacks we can pick can grant us tow extra feats. {. . .}

Another thing (that I didn't see in the posts above) is that taking two Drawbacks would get you two extra Traits, not two extra Feats.

* * * * * * * *

And now I've got this vision stuck in my head of some villain who uses really garish makeup to be able to get away from a heist by stunning onlookers . . . Maybe this ought to be a new Rogue Talent . . . .


No point taking vital strike because it doesn't fully utilize sneak attack.

Vital strike also does not work with spring attack if I'm not mistaken. So no jumping in, doing a vital strike and jumping away.

Maybe take scout to use with spring attack and get rid of vital strike so you can free up some feats?

Grand Lodge

If you take Racial Heritage(Ogre), you can take this feat:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Monster Codex wrote:

Savage Critical

You are able to land critical hits precisely, dealing devastating damage.

Prerequisite(s): Str 19, ogre, sneak attack +2d6.

Benefit(s): When you hit a creature using the Vital Strike feat or confirm a critical hit against an opponent, add your sneak attack damage to the damage from the attack. This feat has no effect on attacks that already allow you to add sneak attack damage.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

If you take Racial Heritage(Ogre), you can take this feat:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Monster Codex wrote:

Savage Critical

You are able to land critical hits precisely, dealing devastating damage.

Prerequisite(s): Str 19, ogre, sneak attack +2d6.

Benefit(s): When you hit a creature using the Vital Strike feat or confirm a critical hit against an opponent, add your sneak attack damage to the damage from the attack. This feat has no effect on attacks that already allow you to add sneak attack damage.

This feat is great and it really shines when you have multiple attacks with a high threat range weapon.

Outflank & Paired Opportunists with appropriate allies with these feats help. Or if you had 3 levels of Inquisitor to get the Solo Tactics ability, still need an ally to help with the flanks etc...


I understand what you want to do, you want to be that bad-ass guy that sneak towards a guy with a great sword and then will roll a metric ton of d6's? Sorry to burst your bubble honey, that will not work if you pick up a rogue.

Now let me talk you about a class that is thematically the same but simply better: The Ranger.

As a ranger you get a lot of skills points like your rogue, you can also build stealthy if you like. You will be adapt at finding traps like a rogue, only you will have to detect magic. Unlike a rogue you will have spells, full BAB, a pet to flank with often, proficiency with most martial weapons. You will also get flat bonuses against your favored enemies (I suggest humanoid:human, outsider:evil and animal or undead). You lose your sneak attack and trust me you will not care about it. You gain the ability to track people with ease.

As a ranger you from level 1 and up you can use a lot of scrolls and wands something the rogue has to invest a lot of skill points to be able to do reliably.

You can build yourself to be a very good with 2 weapons, a two handed weapon or bows via your combat style bonuses. Spells like "lead blade"and "Gravity bow" will ensure constant damage from your weapons.

Make the right choice and go Ranger, rogues can't barely stand for themselves in a fight, with a ranger you bring a versatile Skill/Tracking/killing machine + a companion to the table. You can even go and take some prestige levels as a Horizon Walker for extra awesome points.


^Before you get too excited about dissing the Rogue, let's see what Pathfinder Unchained does. This is coming out soon (I thought I saw June 29, but I could be remembering wrong).


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Before you get too excited about dissing the Rogue, let's see what Pathfinder Unchained does. This is coming out soon (I thought I saw June 29, but I could be remembering wrong).

The PDF should be out in about 15 minutes. The hardcover is already out. They said it gets an all around good upgrade, and it can debuff among other things. If you want combat to be your main thing you are still better off with a ranger or slayer, but if not then the rogue might not be a bad idea.


ok just a question where in the books does it state that you cant build a character with levels of rouge and ninja. and while vital strike only increases the amount of damage dice based on the weapons damage dice which we understand the character would still recieve the sneak attack dice if conditions are met to allow it. and as far as the drawbacks are concerned our house rule allows you to take an extra feat or trait per drawback.


oh yeah and as far as spring attack. we didnt expect it to work with vital strike it was only taken to get whirlwind


morkoll wrote:

ok just a question where in the books does it state that you cant build a character with levels of rouge and ninja. and while vital strike only increases the amount of damage dice based on the weapons damage dice which we understand the character would still recieve the sneak attack dice if conditions are met to allow it. and as far as the drawbacks are concerned our house rule allows you to take an extra feat or trait per drawback.

Too lazy to make a link.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes

Alternate classes are standalone classes whose basic ideas are very close to established base classes, yet whose required alterations would be too expansive for an archetype. An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa.


ok never noticed that part thanx


Eigengrau wrote:

{. . .}

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes
{. . .}

(Linkified.) That is easy enough to find, but it is remarkably hard to find where it is in the original PRD (I still can't find the original, even using the Search function).

* * * * * * * *

Okay, messageboard people, now for the challenge:

How can we build a Rogue who uses really garish makeup to be able to get away from a heist by stunning onlookers? The garish makeup can be used for Disguise, but it also has to be used for something else common (at least Intimidate -- if it provides some kind of additional Extraordinary or Supernatural ability, all the better). (Although this concept probably works better as Ninja.)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eigengrau wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

If you take Racial Heritage(Ogre), you can take this feat:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Monster Codex wrote:

Savage Critical

You are able to land critical hits precisely, dealing devastating damage.

Prerequisite(s): Str 19, ogre, sneak attack +2d6.

Benefit(s): When you hit a creature using the Vital Strike feat or confirm a critical hit against an opponent, add your sneak attack damage to the damage from the attack. This feat has no effect on attacks that already allow you to add sneak attack damage.

This feat is great and it really shines when you have multiple attacks with a high threat range weapon.

Outflank & Paired Opportunists with appropriate allies with these feats help. Or if you had 3 levels of Inquisitor to get the Solo Tactics ability, still need an ally to help with the flanks etc...

How does a feat that relies on you making only a single attack work great with multiple attacks???


Ravingdork wrote:
Eigengrau wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

If you take Racial Heritage(Ogre), you can take this feat:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Monster Codex wrote:

Savage Critical

You are able to land critical hits precisely, dealing devastating damage.

Prerequisite(s): Str 19, ogre, sneak attack +2d6.

Benefit(s): When you hit a creature using the Vital Strike feat or confirm a critical hit against an opponent, add your sneak attack damage to the damage from the attack. This feat has no effect on attacks that already allow you to add sneak attack damage.

This feat is great and it really shines when you have multiple attacks with a high threat range weapon.

Outflank & Paired Opportunists with appropriate allies with these feats help. Or if you had 3 levels of Inquisitor to get the Solo Tactics ability, still need an ally to help with the flanks etc...

How does a feat that relies on you making only a single attack work great with multiple attacks???

It's the second part where you get SA damage on a critical hit that they were referring to.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Unless you're tactically inept, wouldn't you likely be getting sneak attack on your crits anyways?

I can see a few situations where you can't flank, feint, or otherwise open your foe up to sneak attack, but I would think it would be rare enough to not waste one of your precious few feats cover for it.

But at this point, I'm arguing preferences.

Thanks for answering my question.


Ravingdork wrote:

Unless you're tactically inept, wouldn't you likely be getting sneak attack on your crits anyways?

I can see a few situations where you can't flank, feint, or otherwise open your foe up to sneak attack, but I would think it would be rare enough to not waste one of your precious few feats cover for it.

But at this point, I'm arguing preferences.

Thanks for answering my question.

The part that's really great about this feat is the fact that you can add your SA damage dice to the attacks of Vital Strike or on a Crit. So, if your enemy is immune to Sneak Attacks, it doesn't matter on a Vital or Crit, they take the extra damage, the feat doesn't say you're Sneak Attacking it just says to add your SA damage in with Vital or Criticals.

Plus there are times where you can't get in a Flank or you've somehow fell victim to a surprise round or didn't win initiative. It's not a bad feat for STR sneak attackers.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah, now that does make it much better.


Thread Breath of Life time!

Now that Rogue Unchained has been out for a little while, here's my messageboard challenge renewed: How can we build a Rogue who uses really garish makeup to be able to get away from a heist (or other shenanigans) by stunning onlookers? The garish makeup can be used for Disguise, but it must also be used for something else common (at least Intimidate -- if it provides some kind of additional Extraordinary or Supernatural ability, all the better). Due to Charisma dependence, this concept probably works better mechanically as Ninja, but Rouge Rogue just sounds too good to pass up (and Ninja trades out Trapfinding). Bonus points for NOT trading out Trapfinding in the build (I want to steal this build for Shattered Star or something similar).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, a good foundation is essential when applying rouge to your rogue. :)

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