Stacking Rogue Archtypes


Rules Questions


So one of the players in my group is making a Rogue and with some help from other members, we've concocted quite the interesting build for him. Overall he is lvl 8, we gave him 4 lvls Scout, 2 Knife Master, and 2 Assassin. So my question is, does the Sneak Attack from the Rogue Archtypes stack with each other? As it doesnt specify unlike the other classes like Assassin and Stalker and other variable classes of the sort.


Can you link to the rules text you're using to do this at all? 'Cause I don't think you can multiclass in different archetypes of a single class that way. If you want your Rogue-ness to be Scout-ish, it must be Scout-ish always and forever. You can take multiple archetypes simultaneously as long as they don't replace the same thing at any point.

That said, if you could do that I do believe the SAs would stack! ;-)


Keagun Redcrow,

First, archetypes do not work the way you have described. Archetypes are not separate classes, they are modifications to the base class (in this case, Rogue).

So, what you described is a Rogue 6/Assassin 2 with the Rogue having 2 archetypes.

Second, you can only take archetypes that do not modify/replace the same class ability.
In this case Knife Master replaces Trapfinding and Trap Sense and modifies Sneak Attack while Scout replaces Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanndy Dodge.
Because they do not modify or replace the same abilities they are compatible.

Third, the Assassin's Sneak Attack ability specifically states that it stacks with other Sneak Attack abilities. So your total sneak attack at this level is 3d6+1d6 = 4d6.

Summary: Your level 8 character is a Rogue 6 (Knife Master/Scout)/Assassin 2 with a Sneak Attack of 4d6.


So as this character gains levels, if he advances in Rogue, he would have to specify which Archtype he was advancing as. Cuz I know that when you take a different Archtype, you basically start over in the class, tho giving the way he is now, I dont think it would matter too much.

So lets say he reaches level 9 and wants to advance in as a Rogue, he would need to specify which variant he is advancing as, since the Archtypes basically rename the class to the Archtype, hence why you can take multiple archtypes, as long as they dont cross replace the same abilities.


Keagun Redcrow wrote:
So as this character gains levels, if he advances in Rogue, he would have to specify which Archtype he was advancing as.

No, when you pick an archetype it's a permanent change to the class for that character. This character isn't "Scout 4, Knife Master 2, Assassin 2," but rather "Rogue(Scout/Knife Master) 6, Assassin 2."

The reason you can take multiple archetypes is that they are each based on trading some abilities away for new abilities. If two archetypes require different abilities as their 'payment' you can have both because you can make both trades.


Chakat has it. Think of Archetypes as a type of specialty that affect classes. They are NOT new classes like a Prestige Class.

So even with two Archetypes, you would still only have one class.


on a somewhat related note would any of you like to take a look at my question regarding archetypes?

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s7kg?Education-on-Animal-Companions

thanks!

Sczarni

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Same circumstance.

You're combining two Archetypes of Hunter, much like this poster is combining two Archetypes of Rogue.

But you're still leveling up as "Hunter".

As long as neither Archetype trades out your ability to obtain an Animal Companion, then you'll have a single Animal Companion advancing as your Hunter gains levels.

Another way to look at this would be a baking analogy.

Say you want cake (Rogue).

But, upon visiting the store, you notice two new flavors of cake (Scout and Knife Master).

One flavor trades out vanilla for cinnamon, and the other trades out oil for melted butter. In this case, since neither recipe switches out the same ingredients, you could combine them both.

You'd have 4 options.

Regular cake (Rogue).
Cinnamon cake (Scout).
Buttery cake (Knife Master).
Or Buttery Cinnamon cake (Scout/Knife Master).

All of these options still result in one cake.

You then notice a toffee cake recipe, but this one switches out vanilla and oil for sugar and caramel.

You would not be able to make a toffee cake that was either cinnamony or buttery.

Does that help?


Nefreet,

Yes that helps. My GM and I figured it out by playing around with the build, plus all the replies to this thread. Between all that, we found a 3rd Archtype that could still apply and was super beneficial. Quite amazing how this Rogue turned out. Once all said and done, it is capable of delivering almost every attack as a FF attack or gaining his SA damage on every attack.


What were the three you settled on?


not a hell of a lot left to trade in after Knife Master and Scout.

I think he's got Evasion and Talents


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Nefreet wrote:

Same circumstance.

You're combining two Archetypes of Hunter, much like this poster is combining two Archetypes of Rogue.

But you're still leveling up as "Hunter".

As long as neither Archetype trades out your ability to obtain an Animal Companion, then you'll have a single Animal Companion advancing as your Hunter gains levels.

Another way to look at this would be a baking analogy.

Say you want cake (Rogue).

But, upon visiting the store, you notice two new flavors of cake (Scout and Knife Master).

One flavor trades out vanilla for cinnamon, and the other trades out oil for melted butter. In this case, since neither recipe switches out the same ingredients, you could combine them both.

You'd have 4 options.

Regular cake (Rogue).
Cinnamon cake (Scout).
Buttery cake (Knife Master).
Or Buttery Cinnamon cake (Scout/Knife Master).

All of these options still result in one cake.

You then notice a toffee cake recipe, but this one switches out vanilla and oil for sugar and caramel.

You would not be able to make a toffee cake that was either cinnamony or buttery.

Does that help?

That is a great way to explain archetypes. But now I have a craving for cake.


Greylurker-
To answer your question, we used Scout/Knife Master/Glory Rogue.
The abilities from Glory Rogue don't replace any of the Rogue's base abilities, though that is probably because it is a 3PP Archtype.

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