Tabletop Giant - New PFS Character Creator


Pathfinder Society

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1/5

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Jon-Enee Merriex wrote:

You click the arrow to add ranks. You can now add multiple ranks at one level (see level 3 and level 7).

EDIT: I fail at refreshing. One suggestion, have the arrow be a + sign. I initially didn't understand the pointing down

Your interpretation is exactly correct. ;)

I do think the icons I used are a bit confusing (my fault for trying to be 'fancy'). A plain '+' sign might be better than the hammer and anvil, and something else for the crown and trophy as well.

Another revision soon (this one won't take long - it's just cosmetic).

!

1/5

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Take a look at this one and let me know if it's a bit more obvious how it works.

Screenshot

The '+' sign raises a skill, the '-' sign lowers it.

A half-star means the HD max has been hit. A full star means all skill points for that level have been consumed.

If ranks were added any given level, then they show within parenthesis after the total above the control buttons.

So, in this screenshot, one rank was added at level 4, 2 ranks were added at level 5, 3 ranks were added at level 8, and finally 4 ranks were added at level 10, which hits the HD max of that level (and so forces the HD max of all previous levels).

This particular character gets a mere 4 skill points a level. Since 4 points were used at level 10, it gets a full star.

I'm still going to think about it a bit - it does need to be intuitive - suggestions are quite welcome!

1/5

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The lack of counter suggestions tells me that we might be onto something - perhaps its time to let people try it out themselves soon :)

As many of you likely know, TG is the 'official' scheduler for Gamex 2016, and I would really like to get this update up and out there before the convention begins on May 27. I will be endeavoring to do so and may end up burning vacation time to get more work in so that we can move on to the next big phase.

I'll get on it - will report back when I have something to show. Thanks!


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Looking forward to it!


Very much looking forward to it, TG! Also, of a note I found a kink with the hydrokineticists. You can select Water as your element and your wild blast talent; however, that's as far as you can go. There is no option to allow you to select your 1st level infusion.

Not sure if this has been reported yet or not, but I figure best to throw out what I've observed! Keep up the great work, TG.

Disregard all that. I figured out what the issue was... Somehow I apparently clicked on Elemental Annihilator when I was scrolling down the archetype screen. The above works just fine... I need sleep.

3/5

Without trying it, based on screenshot alone, I like it. I look forward to seeing the level 20 version in action!

1/5

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Okay, unless someone sets something on fire near me that causes me to run away, on fire, in a panic, looking for a way to put out the fire - because fire really hurts - the update is going to up today.

There is some setup both with code as well as the DB, so to keep things clean, I will be taking TG down for approximately 30-60 minutes to perform the update.

Once everything is up and at least appears to be working as it should, I'll post an update describing all that is included.

Thanks!

--TG


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YAY!!!! I am very much looking forward to seeing the great new work you put into this, TG.

1/5

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What a day - the update is live. Please do give it a try.

I wrote a fairly long description of all it contains in a thread on the site titled The State of the Tabletop Giant.

However, for the click-lazy (you know who you are), I'll summarize at least the 'good parts' here:


  • Build Plans: You may now create your entire build plan. On the 'Class' page, you can now add levels in all available classes up to level 20, establishing the entire path for your player character.

  • Feat Selections: You may also select all non-class specific feats on the Feats page, up to level 20. As you all know, all players - regardless of class - receive a feat at every odd level. As you add levels to your character in your Build Plan, you may also add feats for that particular level on the Feats page.

  • Skill Selections: You may set all of your skill points up to level 20, or as many character levels as you add to your build plan. The UI was went over pretty exhaustively with the community at Paizo (thank you everyone for that!), and the result will allow you to set all skill levels in a single skill with a minimal amount of clicks.

  • Build Now, Level Later: Tabletop Giant is designed under the notion of creating your entire build plan before hand, and then simply 'upping' your level on your character sheet. This has been implemented. At the top of the character sheet is a simple 'Set Active Level' drop down, that you may use to set the current level presented in the character sheet. Leveling mid-game has never been easier than this.

  • Tabletop Giant's First Complete Class: I am really proud to be able to say that TG now offers full class support for one of the oldest core classes in the game - the Fighter. This class was admittedly chosen for its simplistic structure; however was valuable in helping to establish the patterns that all other classes will follow.

  • Fighter Archetypes: With the completion of the Fighter also comes with the completion of all Fighter archetypes. With the exception of the Viking - who's rage powers will be implemented when we work with the Barbarian - all archetypes have had their UI designed and are available for use.

Grand Lodge 2/5

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This is very exciting!

I very much want to try it out. Do you have a plan for what classes you're implementing next?

Let's see, my single-classed characters I could input that may/may not influence your decision..

Skinwalker bloodrager (not a pfs character but it would be legal with a race boon)
Aasimar Paladin
Tiefling Magus
Human Hunter
Human Warpriest
Vishkanya Rogue

Some of my multiclassed characters..

Tiefling Bloodrager 1/Monk x
Human Fighter 1/Cleric x (basically warpriest before they were a thing)
Cav 1/Hunter X/Fighter 2/Monk 2/ (in this order Cav 1/Hunter 3/Monk 1/Fighter 1/Monk 1/Fighter 1/Hunter x)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I wonder if there would be some way to poll your user base to find out what the most frequently used classes are. While you can look at the currently entered PCs, I suspect that it will be missing a lot as in my case.

Here are mine progressed to level 12:

Monk Unchained 12
Swashbuckler 5/Ranger 6/Inner Sea Pirate 1
Cleric 8/Holy Vindicator 4
Barbarian 8/Druid 4
Monk Unchained 1/Sorcerer 4/Dragon Disciple 7
Oracle 10/Rogue Unchained 2
Fighter 1/Inquisitor 11
Rogue Unchained 12
Magus 12
Gunslinger 5/Investigator 1/Shieldmarshal 6
Slayer 12
Summoner Unchained 12
Fighter 2/Warpriest 1/Brawler 9
Bloodrager 12

Grand Lodge 2/5

Michael Hallet wrote:


Rogue Unchained 12

Ah right, that's important. I should note that my vishkanya rogue mentioned above is also unchained. I've also half a dozen other PFS characters, but I'm not as worried as much about them.

1/5

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Lots and lots of bugs! There was a pretty bad bug in the system that was causing newly created characters to be mangled; that's been cleared up. A few others as well. My morning coffee was a busy one.

Please do keep an eye out for other things going wrong and do point them out; this update is rather large and it is very difficult to test all that it influences.

As far as what is next - I would honestly like to rework the race and racial traits menus next, and then the equip page, before then moving on to the various class pages. Note - as part of the race redo, I'd like to add Catfolk and Androids, so there would be something new.

Also, we also need to implement a way to add +1 to an ability score at every four levels - not a hard feature to code and a necessary one.

After those pages, it probably will be mostly a matter of ticking through the class UI's. I'd like to do the core classes first - just feels natural to me - and I was considering doing the Cleric next. Handling a spellcaster will give me the opportunity to lay out how spell selections, which can actually get pretty complicated given how I'd like to approach it.

What I mean by that is - the intent will be to establish a system where you can pick your known spells per level. This is to support the 'Active Level' feature on the character sheet - the spells you might like to have known at any given level are likely to change as you progress.

However - first things first - while I fixed a number of bugs this morning, I know there are others lurking. This first week or so will probably be spent ironing out problems found within the update itself. Further, I know the Adopted trait isn't working all that well, and Unchained Summoners have a messed up spell list (pointing at standard summoners), so these issues should also be resolved first.

Work work work! Thanks everyone :)

--TG

Grand Lodge 2/5

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Clerics next will allow me to put two of my characters in. One fighter/cleric and another straight cleric. First thing I notice is that when putting feats in (as a fighter), there's no clear indication of which fighter bonus feat it is--or more specifically, what level it's for. It also looks like I'm getting a fighter bonus feat for every level instead of 1st and every even level. It also doesn't look like I'm eligible for any feat, requiring me to steal any feat desired.

1/5

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claudekennilol wrote:
It also looks like I'm getting a fighter bonus feat for every level instead of 1st and every even level. It also doesn't look like I'm eligible for any feat, requiring me to steal any feat desired.

That doesn't sound right - hmmmm!

Fighter bonus feats are selected on the 'Feats' tab now (all 'bonus feats' will be migrated so that feat selections are done on this single page).

You click the toggle of which feat you wish to select. It should look like this: Screenshot

The label of each toggle shows what feat it will set - you can see is a bonus feat for Fighter level 1, then 2, then 4, 6, and so on for even numbers.

Where it says "Feat (1)", and "Feat (3)" - those are your standard feats that you get for level - one feat every odd level.

Are you seeing something different than that?

Grand Lodge 2/5

Tabletop Giant wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
It also looks like I'm getting a fighter bonus feat for every level instead of 1st and every even level. It also doesn't look like I'm eligible for any feat, requiring me to steal any feat desired.

That doesn't sound right - hmmmm!

Fighter bonus feats are selected on the 'Feats' tab now (all 'bonus feats' will be migrated so that feat selections are done on this single page).

You click the toggle of which feat you wish to select. It should look like this: Screenshot

The label of each toggle shows what feat it will set - you can see is a bonus feat for Fighter level 1, then 2, then 4, 6, and so on for even numbers.

Where it says "Feat (1)", and "Feat (3)" - those are your standard feats that you get for level - one feat every odd level.

Are you seeing something different than that?

THIS is what I'm seeing with an 11th level fighter. Also a quick edit to my previous. My characer level feats appear to be working as intended, it's on my fighter bonus feats that I'm not eligible for anything.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm not able to reproduce this. There were some recent changes around fighter bonus feats for a bug I had reported. Maybe try creating the character from scratch again and see if it is still a problem.

4/5

Small thing. The checkbox for "Remember me" isn't showing up. Current (bleeding edge actually) copy of Firefox or current Chrome.

Grand Lodge 2/5

I've never tried before, but is there a way to delete a character?

I can't repro it now with a new character. But the original character is still broken and named "fighter 11 test" if you want to take a look at it.

1/5

Sorry about that Claude! As Michael said this one should now be fixed. But, to repair the character, you'll have to remove the fighter levels - all of them, sadly - just go down to 1, then switch it to some other class, then back to fighter, then re-add the levels, and it should be fine then.

The biggest problem this update is having - and it's one that surprised me - was the character sheet update to allow the setting of the 'Active' level. It had a number of unintended side effects, including breaking Fighter bonus feats. Fixing the issues as they're spotted.

There's about five new tickets I'm about to chew through atm - I will take a look at the Remember Me issue too (I saw it on my Android earlier - strange).

Thanks!


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Hey TG, just found a big bug! The floating attribute bonus for Humans, Half-elves, and Half-orcs is not being implemented into the attributes. I checked all my PCs with floating bonuses and none of them have been applied to the sheet or the Abilities page. All the PCs that have set Attribute bonuses are being applied properly though.

1/5

Added to to-do list :)

Should be able to knock that one out easily.

Besides the bad bad terrible one yesterday, all of the bugs have been mostly been about tightening up a bit of logic - not that bad. Just a matter of ticking through them.

!


Thanks for the great work here, TG! I like the new options you added with this update. I'll let you know if I find anything else that stands out for issues and such that might need tweaking!


Just a very minor nitpick, Obscuring Mist doesn't seem to be an Oracle spell. It's a key spell for a build I'm working on, so it's kind of important.

Actually... I don't seem to be able to pick my first level Revelation as an Oracle either. Oracle isn't my first level, but I only have one Oracle level - should be able to make my 1st level Oracle picks right now, or should only the first class I take work for now?

2/5

I ran into two minor issues: the first is the floating attribute bug mentioned by Faelyn above. The second involves the Sacred Summons feat. It seems that the Aura class feature for Clerics hasn't been implemented, meaning that the feat's prerequisites can't be legally fulfilled.

1/5

gatherer818 wrote:
Just a very minor nitpick, Obscuring Mist doesn't seem to be an Oracle spell. It's a key spell for a build I'm working on, so it's kind of important.

Fixed :)

gatherer818 wrote:


Actually... I don't seem to be able to pick my first level Revelation as an Oracle either.

I tried a test Oracle and it looks like it's working; however, Revelations don't show up until you select a Mystery (as they are related). Check to make sure you have a Mystery selected - if you do, and revelations are still hidden, let me know the character name and I'll figure out what's gone awry.

Thanks!


It seems to be working for me now, but I didn't change anything in the Oracle tab except picking Cure as auto-known spells. Could that have been it?

As an aside, while you're doing other UI improvements, I'd LOVE a way to sort Archetypes by does/does not replace class feature X. I'm going through the Rogue ATs now going "NO WHY DOES EVERY FREAKING ARCHETYPE FOR THE CLASS THAT SPECIFICALLY HANDLES MAGICAL TRAPS TRADE MY [censored] ABILITY TO DISARM MAGICAL TRAPS DIE IN A FIRE A MAGICAL FIRE TRAP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" -cough- I mean, um, yeah. "Retains: Trapfinding" would be amazing...

1/5

Not sure about the Oracle - I'm just glad it's working!

Someone had asked about such a UI for the archetypes before, but the way you've phrased it gives me an idea. Not sure when I can fit it in but I think we can come up with something.

We'll see how many new tickets are waiting for me in the morning, lol.

3/5

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Things seem to be working better now! I'd been struggling after the update. Thought I'd let you know that the Two-World Magic Trait keeps giving me a table error as, I believe, it's trying to load up the spells that you can choose from.

Grand Lodge 2/5

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Tabletop Giant wrote:
Someone had asked about such a UI for the archetypes before, but the way you've phrased it gives me an idea. Not sure when I can fit it in but I think we can come up with something.

It was me ;)

1/5

DrakeRoberts wrote:
Things seem to be working better now! I'd been struggling after the update.

Me as well, haha. I've been doing this for quite awhile so have come to expect problems; big changes always have big side effects that are unforeseen. It is the nature of code.

That said - three days after the update most things seem to be working as intended now. Not so bad!

DrakeRoberts wrote:
Thought I'd let you know that the Two-World Magic Trait keeps giving me a table error as, I believe, it's trying to load up the spells that you can choose from.

Fixed :) It was coughing on an old function. I straightened it out and it appears to be behaving. Thanks for letting me know!

--TG


Is it still possible to try

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
VNDL wrote:
Is it still possible to try

Do or do not. There is no try.

4/5

I just noticed something else. Searched this thread but couldn't find anything about it.

I can't seem to change my first level. It seems to be set to the first class you choose as a Favored Class.

Edit: Nevermind. I just found it. You have to go to the new class you want for first.

4/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Am I missing how to add Ranger combat styles, or has this not been implemented yet?

1/5

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Chris Rathunde wrote:
Am I missing how to add Ranger combat styles, or has this not been implemented yet?

It's not implemented - this is one thing I'll have to make a bit more obvious on the site so as to avoid frustration for everyone.

At the moment, the Fighter is the only 'completed' class within the app (which is awesome - we have a completed class!). By 'complete', we mean that you can add as many levels as 20, and the class page will have a complete UI to make class dependent selections (e.g., ranger combat styles, rogue talents, barbarian rage powers, oracle revelations, etc). In the case of the Fighter, this means he can pick all of his weapon mastery's as well as his bonus feats.

Each and every remaining class is going to have to be reworked to bring it to being 'complete'.

This week has been spent working on the flurry of bugs that the update revealed, and it looks like we've gotten on top of them and the worst are gone. Next week I can start pushing new progress.

Here's what is likely to be next - race selection and racial traits need to be reworked. The bonus feats gained through certain racial traits are not implemented well with the new system, and currently are even being ignored as feat prerequisites. The racial traits and all of their bonuses need to be revisited to bring them up to the same design pattern as the existing feats and bonuses.

While this is being done, I also plan to add the Catfolk and Android races, just for fun.

I'm going to suppress the urge to estimate how long that upgrade will take - once I'm able to dig into the task and see some progress, an eta will be more reasonable. I *suspect* it should be about the same effort as when the skills page was reworked (see the last one or two pages of this thread). If it makes sense, I will also post screenshots while they are being worked for feedback (that input REALLY helped with the skills page).

After that is done, I believe I'd like to do the Cleric next, so that we have two complete classes.

After the Cleric - not quite sure. It maybe go straight into another class, or the Equip page. If it is a class, tentatively, those would be Rogue, and then Wizard (to complete the standard Fighter-Cleric-Rogue-Wizard pattern), and then likely other core classes. It is intended that the core classes will be the first to be done.

As was done with the Fighter, each class will also have its archetypes completed while it is being brought up to level 20. Also, tentatively - unless it is shown to be unwise - I'm likely to try to implement the Unchained versions of any class as I work on them (the only exception to the core classes being first).

Good times :)

1/5

GinoA wrote:

I just noticed something else. Searched this thread but couldn't find anything about it.

I can't seem to change my first level. It seems to be set to the first class you choose as a Favored Class.

Edit: Nevermind. I just found it. You have to go to the new class you want for first.

That's exactly it. The system needs to be at least level 1 in *something*, so it just assumes the favored class for the first level. But if you want to switch it, just visit the class page for a different class, and hit the 'level 1' button and it'll swap.

!

4/5

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The new skills page is nice, but I have one complaint. I can't see what points I've spent/have available anywhere but in the pop-up. Even there, I can only see where I've got some number of points free, not the actual number free.

A simple list showing remain points at each level somewhere on the main page would be great. Maybe just a line like below at the bottom of the instruction box:

Skill Ranks remaining/total per level:
1:0/4 2:3/4 3:4/4 4:4/4 5:4/4...

1/5

GinoA wrote:

The new skills page is nice, but I have one complaint. I can't see what points I've spent/have available anywhere but in the pop-up. Even there, I can only see where I've got some number of points free, not the actual number free.

A simple list showing remain points at each level somewhere on the main page would be great. Maybe just a line like below at the bottom of the instruction box:

Skill Ranks remaining/total per level:
1:0/4 2:3/4 3:4/4 4:4/4 5:4/4...

Completely agree. I think this one is simple enough that I can tinker something together before really diving into the race updates.

I did look more at the Archetype filter and it's a bit complex due to what I'll call 'Partial special replacements' such as a special that replaces 'Bonus Feat (1)' but not the others. It's something I'd like to do and is certainly possible but I need to fit it in the schedule.

!


TG, just noticed that the prerequisites for Pummeling Style are off. It appears to be coded as requiring Improved Unarmed Strike, BaB +6, and Brawler's Flurry or Flurry of Blows... Whereas it should be IUS; BaB +6, Brawler's Flurry, or Flurry of Blows.

1/5

That shouldn't be too hard to fix - I'll take a look at it late this evening or in the morning. Gamex is on today and I'm actually playing for once - sending my angry and obligatorily morally confused Paladin out to smash things weeee.

Thanks!

--TG


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Haha! Enjoy smashing things with your paladin!! As always, thank you for all the work you're putting into this!


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Seems like a bit of a project; kineticists selections past their initial blast are not in. Thanks for the help with my account!

1/5

My poor Paladin managed to get his butt surrounded by three touch attack mooks that damage 1-4 wisdom each hit. He has 8 wisdom and a 12 touch ac. The math was way against me.

To his credit, he stayed up way longer than he rightfully should have and managed to do some damage as well. The rest of the party did save the day, so my Paladin eventually (eventually) stopped making motorboat sounds and running in circles.

GinoA wrote:


A simple list showing remain points at each level somewhere on the main page would be great. Maybe just a line like below at the bottom of the instruction box:

I put in a patch that should help with this. In the bulleted lines at the top, one of the items lists those levels where you have available skill points. If you've used all the skill points for a level, it won't be shown in the list - when you've used all skill points for all levels, this line will let you know.

If that's not quite right, let me know and I'll tinker with it.

Faelyn wrote:
TG, just noticed that the prerequisites for Pummeling Style are off. It appears to be coded as requiring Improved Unarmed Strike, BaB +6, and Brawler's Flurry or Flurry of Blows... Whereas it should be IUS; BaB +6, Brawler's Flurry, or Flurry of Blows.

Nice catch! Fixed :)

aristalis wrote:
Seems like a bit of a project; kineticists selections past their initial blast are not in. Thanks for the help with my account!

Unfortunately the only class that can make class dependent selections past level 1 are Fighters - updating all other class pages will take a bit of time, but we're definitely on the path!

Thanks all!

4/5

Another couple comments/requests:

1: It's not clear what source materials are currently implemented. Particularly, when looking for magic items.

2: There needs to be a way to enter unusual stuff. For example, there are several boons available that provide a permanent, untyped or inherent boost to an ability score. There is no way to update the PC to reflect this.

3: The skill point totals are definitely an improvement. I usually try to avoid offering suggestions based on competitors, but the presentation of skill points in YAPCG has always seemed very intuitive to me.

4: Not sure this can be easily fixed, but changing out a level other than the current highest requires deleting several levels and re-assigning. Reflecting a re-train with this approach will be painful.

5: Some of the "pretties" are a big hit performance-wise. Particularly the "you're as strong as a" flavor text on abilities. An option to turn off some of this stuff would be nice.

6: I've mentioned it before, but a plain, Paizo-like stat block and/or sheet would be a must-have for heavy-use.

Overall, still an incredible accomplishment in the time you've been working. Thanks a lot for your effort.

4/5

Couple more items..

Something seems off on minimum skills per level.

Per Intelligence in Abilities, "The number of skill points gained each level, though your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level." So an INT = 7 Fighter should be getting one per level before FCB.

Half-bloods (H-Orc, in particular) can't take Racial Heritage. H-Orcs and H-Elves can take any Human or Orc/Elf feats,...

Grand Lodge 2/5

GinoA wrote:

Couple more items..

Something seems off on minimum skills per level.

Per Intelligence in Abilities, "The number of skill points gained each level, though your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level." So an INT = 7 Fighter should be getting one per level before FCB.

THIS faq is relevant. So on the same lines, a human fighter putting his FCB into int would have 3 skill points per level.

4/5

I'm beginning to think I build weird characters.

Low INT and a rank in Linguistics isn't giving a language.

1/5

Got it - I think it's just not checking for skill points < 0. Should be easy to fix ;)

Edit: should be good now - give it a shot and if it's still off let me know!

1/5

GinoA - you've some great feedback in that list. Some of them (such as removing levels 'mid' build) would definitely be some work, and will likely have to be looked at after all the character UI's are made (getting that done is pretty important for obvious reasons).

A few notes:

GinoA wrote:


2: There needs to be a way to enter unusual stuff. For example, there are several boons available that provide a permanent, untyped or inherent boost to an ability score. There is no way to update the PC to reflect this.

Agreed! For those sorts of boons, I'd like to add a means to add a modification to the character sheet which the player can declare to be 'PFS Legal'. The character sheet would still list the character as PFS Standard (or core, if that is the case), with the footnote that this modification was made (so the GM can see it if reviewing the sheet).

Though again this is one that'll probably be post character UI effort.

GinoA wrote:


5: Some of the "pretties" are a big hit performance-wise. Particularly the "you're as strong as a" flavor text on abilities. An option to turn off some of this stuff would be nice.

Chagrins me to admit this, but the bottleneck there is actually reconfirming the attribute totals. When you change values, the system checks over everything to total the new values. What needs to be done is an optimization pass (more caching, etc) to make this routine more efficient.

GinoA wrote:


Overall, still an incredible accomplishment in the time you've been working. Thanks a lot for your effort.

Thank you so much! This thing has been quite a job. It's fun.

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