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Hi all,
I've played my first Pathfinder Society last week. I've spent the time since reading up on the system and trying to make my first character. I'd like to post her here. Looking for some input, some checking of my choices and any suggestions you can make.
The concept is a young girl, who grew up as an orphan in a gang in Magnimar. A chance encounter with a follower of Chadali, who was also a member of the Pathfinder society, gave her the chance to break free of that life and to use her talents for something good. I've posted a full description on the character page. Mechanically, I'd like a character who is good in combat, but has decent skills and some options for party support. I first tried a halfling rogue, but didn't get the result I wanted. After a couple of revisions, I've settled on this half-orc bard with the archaeologist archetype.
Now for the crunch. I've thought up the following: I've got one chronicle sheet from the adventure that I played with the premade. This gives me 1xp, 500gp on top of the 150gp I started with. Unfortunately, only 1 prestige so far.
Stats: Str 17 (incl +2 racial), Dec 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 14.
Race: Half-Orc, with alternate traits. Skilled instead of Darkvision. Sacred Tattoo instead of Orc Ferocity. Scavenger instead of Intimidate.
Class: Archaeologist 1. Bardic knowledge and Achaeologist's Luck.
Skills: Diplomacy, Disable device, Intimidate, Kn. Arcana, Kn. Local, Kn. Religion, Perception, Stealth, Use Magic Device.
Feat: Lingering Performance (+1 round of Archaeologist's Luck/day)
Faction: Grand Lodge
Traits: Vagabond Child (Disable Device as class skill, and ???
Spells known: 0 - Detect Magic, Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic. 1 - Greasee, Silent Image.
Equipment: Studded leather, Falchion, Composite crossbow [+2 str] (no money for +3 yet), Rogue's kit, 2x acid flask, 1x Thunderstone, potion of CLW, scrolls of Charmm Person, Disguise Self, Comprehend Languages. Wizard scrolls of Protection from Evil and Obscuring Must (DC 21 Use Magic Device).
How does this sounds so far? The thing I'm stumped about is the second trait. I've found the following options, browsing some wiki's and the PRD:
- Fate's Favored. Seems almost too cheesy with the archaeologist. Also, requires me to buy the Ultimate Campaign book for just 1 trait.
- Empyreal focus. Once per day, +2 trait bonus to a single skill check. Seems flavorful. Is this one legal, for a character with Chadali as a patron deity ? Which book should I own to pick this one?
- Empyreal cultist. Speal Celestial and +1 diplomacy vs good humanoids. Seems mildly flavorful, but not really sold of the effects.
Thanks for reading so far. Please leave any suggestions or comments you might have.
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Looks solid. I might be inclined to drop Wis to 8 and raise Int to 13 or something like that since Int 13 is actually potentially useful, while Wis 9 isn't (or go whole-hog, drop Wis to 7 and raise Str to 18).
Sacred Tattoo is debatably a bad call since it doesn't stack with Luck, but I'd argue it's still awesome.
Fate's Favored is amazing, and by far the best of those Traits (all of which I believe you need weird books for).
In terms of spells...I'd really grab CLW. Might be valid to wait for level 2, but having your own healing available is great in PFS (where you can't necessarily rely on anyone else).
In terms of equipment, I don't think composite crossbows exist...I assume a typo. Also, I'd argue that the extra AC from a Chain Shirt is worth the extra armor check penalty.
The trait that gives you +1 Fortitude is amazing. Fort saves are very important.
The Maestro of the Society trait is also helpful in giving you more Archaeologist's Luck rounds...
SACRED TATTOO DOES NOT STACK WITH ARCHAEOLOGIST'S LUCK!!! Keep that in mind.
First of all, +1 to the Fate's Favored = absolutely amazing and worth it no matter what. Unless I am wrong, Vagabond Child also comes from Ultimate Campaign, so you'd have to buy the book anyway.. ;)
That, and with Fate's Favored + Maestro of Society you'd effectively get almost the same bonus as you would from having DD as a class skill 3+ times a day, with a more versatile bonus:
DD (Class Skill) @ L1: +6 (+3 CS, +1 SP, +2 Dex)
DD (Luck (FF) @ L1: +5 (+1 SP, +2 Dex, +2 Luck)
(of course, the luck would give you a +8 on DD in the first scenario, but you'd have fewer uses of it, and thus be less likely to do so)
Since Sacred Tattoo doesn't stack with the luck, you might want to look at either Toothy (gives an 1d4 primary bite attack - which is neat with the static bonuses you get from Luck) or Bestial (gives you +2 perception - always handy)?
Also, a simple sling gives you str to damage on ranged attacks, and is free and lightweight. I tend to prefer those over crossbows, and it saves you some gp too.
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Fate's Favored is worth three regular traits when applied with sacred tattoo. And while the +2 from that combo doesn't stack with the bonus from Archaeologist's Luck it does effectively give you a 3 level bump in this class ability
I'm playing an archaeologist in an AP right now and I often wish I had the sacred tattoo. Often I don't have a chance to get my Archaeologist 's Luck up and running before I need to make saves (ambushes, environmental effects, haunts, etc).
As for the shortbow, I agree with pounce about starting off with a sling. Later, if I wanted to improve my ranged, I would buy a MW composite shortbow (+0), and save the money. Once you get it enchanted +1, you can spend 1000gp and get the Adaptable enchantment, which will let you use it with whatever strength bonus or penalty you have.
Lingering Performance is better than what you give it credit for. 1 swift action to activate Archaeologist's Luck and it will last for the regular 1 round and an additional 2 rounds. Basically it triples your Archaeologist's Luck Ability duration.
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Thanks for the replies. It seems you caught two mistakes in my writeup: I had meant to write a composite shortbow (instead of crossbow), and the Lingering performance indeed gives 2 rounds extra, for each time I perform. In the last case, I was mistaken with the half-orc Favored class bonus, that gives +1 round per day. So far, I have 21 rounds total benefit per day, broken up in seven three-round increments. I think that should be enough.
Fair point on the Int 13. I had somehow thought I might spend a stat point from leveling on Wis to bring it up to 10 and lose the penalty, but that just seems a waste. On the other hand, Int 13 lets me quality for some combat feats, and will allow me to cast level 3 wizard spells from scroll without having to use UMD for the Int.
The Adaptable enchantment on the shortbow sounds really nice, I'll be sure to buy that somewhere along the way. That will save me come cash now. I've had to use a sling in my latest adventure, but wasn't a fan. Maybe I'll buy some throwing daggers to tide me over and buy a MW composite shortbow after my next adventure. That should tide me over until I can afford the +1 and adaptable enchantment. Also, that means I have some cash available for the chain shirt. (Money was one reason for sticking to studded leather now).
I think I'll stick to the Tribal tattoo, even though it doesn't stack with archaeologist's luck. I can see merit in having it always available (even in suprise rounds and such) and it's also a big part of my background as I've written it. Finally, it will make me feel slightly less dirty for picking Fate's Favored. As it seems, that's really the best option there is for my second trait.
Just two more questions, that I thought of this morning:
- Are there any books that write about Chadali in more detail?
- How important is it to have all kinds of weapons and materials, to deal with damage reduction? If that's important, I was thinking about adding a cold iron dagger (piercing) and a silvered light mace (bludgeoning) to my arsenal. Or is that going overboard?
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Thanks for the replies. It seems you caught two mistakes in my writeup: I had meant to write a composite shortbow (instead of crossbow), and the Lingering performance indeed gives 2 rounds extra, for each time I perform. In the last case, I was mistaken with the half-orc Favored class bonus, that gives +1 round per day. So far, I have 21 rounds total benefit per day, broken up in seven three-round increments. I think that should be enough.
That sounds sufficient, yeah. :)
Fair point on the Int 13. I had somehow thought I might spend a stat point from leveling on Wis to bring it up to 10 and lose the penalty, but that just seems a waste. On the other hand, Int 13 lets me quality for some combat feats, and will allow me to cast level 3 wizard spells from scroll without having to use UMD for the Int.
And if you do want to invest in bumping something up, +Level in skills is more fun than +1 Will Save, too.
The Adaptable enchantment on the shortbow sounds really nice, I'll be sure to buy that somewhere along the way. That will save me come cash now. I've had to use a sling in my latest adventure, but wasn't a fan. Maybe I'll buy some throwing daggers to tide me over and buy a MW composite shortbow after my next adventure. That should tide me over until I can afford the +1 and adaptable enchantment. Also, that means I have some cash available for the chain shirt. (Money was one reason for sticking to studded leather now).
That all sounds workable.
I think I'll stick to the Tribal tattoo, even though it doesn't stack with archaeologist's luck. I can see merit in having it always available (even in suprise rounds and such) and it's also a big part of my background as I've written it.
Definitely stick with it, then. It's excellent insurance vs. surprise attacks and such anyway.
Finally, it will make me feel slightly less dirty for picking Fate's Favored. As it seems, that's really the best option there is for my second trait.
It really is.
Just two more questions, that I thought of this morning:
- Are there any books that write about Chadali in more detail?
Not that I know of.
- How important is it to have all kinds of weapons and materials, to deal with damage reduction? If that's important, I was thinking about adding a cold iron dagger (piercing) and a silvered light mace (bludgeoning) to my arsenal. Or is that going overboard?
No, that's a solid choice early on, and fairly cheap to boot at around 30 gp. It's not strictly required but it's a good idea.
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- Are there any books that write about Chadali in more detail?
The only thing I can recall that has much of a write up about Chadali is [url=http://paizo.com/products/btpy8xe9?Pathfinder-Campaign-Setting-Chronicle-of-the-RighteousThe Chronicle of the Righteous"[/url]. Besides the basics of the Empyreal lords, she has about a half-page write up. She's only listed as a table entry in Inner Sea Gods.
- How important is it to have all kinds of weapons and materials, to deal with damage reduction? If that's important, I was thinking about adding a cold iron dagger (piercing) and a silvered light mace (bludgeoning) to my arsenal. Or is that going overboard?
That's my standard load out (though a battle-aspergillum is roughly the same as the light mace if you wanted another option, plus the ability to fill it with holy water).
I would probably also take the +1 hp favored class bonus. With your falchion you'll be in melee a lot, and you'll probably need the HP. Looking over your stats again, I might switch Dex and Con (more HP and the Con helps boost your weakest save).
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I would probably also take the +1 hp favored class bonus. With your falchion you'll be in melee a lot, and you'll probably need the HP. Looking over your stats again, I might switch Dex and Con (more HP and the Con helps boost your weakest save).
Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into it, but this comment triggered me in some thoughts that left me with some doubt on my concept. First, am I going full-hog into melee feat (Power attack, Cleave, etc)? Second, do I have the AC and hp to survive being in melee all the time?
If I stick with this concept and go with the melee feats, my damage output will be pretty good, but at the cost of survivability. Even with DEX 14, I'll be stuck with AC 16 for the short-team, and only 10 health with the favored class bonus. Will that be enough for a primarily melee fighter? I could invest in a Wand of Shield down the line, but I'm not sure whether that's enough.
I thought of an alternative, to go for Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14 and multiclass into Swashbuckler/Daring Champion Cavalier after a couple of levels in Bard. The earliest I could do this would be at level 3: If I take Weapon Prof (Longsword) at level 1, I could take Slashing Grace at level 3 and use Dex modifier to his and damage, while profiting from high AC and better health. It would leave me a bit weaker at the earlier levels, but could end up with more survivability (at the cost of skills and spells, of course).
Choices, choices...
The easiest survivability 'fix' I can think of is to use a longspear over a falchion. That way enemies are likely to provoke an AoO when they want to attack you, which makes you a less enticing target.
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I'd stay Str based over level-dipping. Delaying progression on spells and other Bard stuff really hurts. Toss on CLW and you'll have the healing to survive combat adequately. The Longspear idea is solid as well.
If you can last until 4th level, you get Mirror Image (aka the best defensive spell in the game) and suddenly become a whole lot more durable (as well as better offensively with Str 18).
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Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into it, but this comment triggered me in some thoughts that left me with some doubt on my concept. First, am I going full-hog into melee feat (Power attack, Cleave, etc)? Second, do I have the AC and hp to survive being in melee all the time?If I stick with this concept and go with the melee feats, my damage output will be pretty good, but at the cost of survivability. Even with DEX 14, I'll be stuck with AC 16 for the short-team, and only 10 health with the favored class bonus. Will that be enough for a primarily melee fighter? I could invest in a Wand of Shield down the line, but I'm not sure whether that's enough.
It's why many Bards use range (shortbow) or reach (whip, spear, etc) You'll be wanting to cast some during battle, doing so in reach of opponents provokes or requires a defensive casting check (unless you're casting a spell with a swift or immediate action cast time).
I thought of an alternative, to go for Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14 and multiclass into Swashbuckler/Daring Champion Cavalier after a couple of levels in Bard. The earliest I could do this would be at level 3: If I take Weapon Prof (Longsword) at level 1, I could take Slashing Grace at level 3 and use Dex modifier to his and damage, while profiting from high AC and better health. It would leave me a bit weaker at the earlier levels, but could end up with more survivability (at the cost of skills and spells, of course).Choices, choices...
I'm not sure why you would need to pick up weapon prof (longsword) for two reasons:
1) that archetype has martial weapon proficiency2) If you're not going to use a falchion, take a look at the city-raised half-orc trait.
One way to go melee would be to go dex by using a rapier and either applying the agile ability to it at a later date or take the fencing grace trait. If you decide to go this route, you can take a level of the inspired blade archtype which gets you both weapon finesse with the rapier and weapon focus with it.
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You'll find offensive spells like grease aren't terribly effective when you have a Charisma of 14, due to the low spell save DCs the bad guys have to make.
Focus more on buffing the party, where that doesn't matter. Saving Finale is a great replacement spell for that one.
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I mostly cast grease on party members, because if they'll be grappling (in case of reversed grapples) or more likely fighting a grappling creature (or are already grappled) this gives them a +10 bonus on CMB/escape artist checks to break a grapple and +10 CMD to avoid being grappled. If you're dealing with someone with a higher escape artist bonus than CMB, that is unlikely to be grappled again, and your CL is 5 or above, you may want to consider Liberating Command.
I'll also use it occasionally to:
• stop enemies from charging
• slow/stop enemies (and feared party mates if I don't have remove fear) from running away
• If an enemy looks like they might have low reflex saves, I will cast it on their weapon. If you get to act in a surprise round, before they've drawn their weapon even better, now they have to roll a reflex save every round they want to use it (eventually they will fail). It's a good opening move if you're too low a level to have haste or good hope. If they drop then picking it up can provoke an attack of opportunity.
• If you cast it on a wall/ceiling that a creature is climbing on, they have to make the reflex save, and it imposes a +5 penalty to the climb check (I used this once on an enemy climbing the walls* to escape our melees reach, they fell prone to the ground) *note this also a place where stunning effects are great to use.
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Thanks for the useful input. The longspear is a great idea, I hadn't considered that. If I understand correctly, I can't use it to trip at range. I would need a guisarme for that, which requires martial weapon proficiency. That doesn't seem to matter too much, though. If I can get some good AoO's in with the longspear before the enemies can attack me, that should be good enough. I've discarded the switch to DEX-based: it doesn't really fit the concept I had in mind, and making the switch now will lead to even more analysis paralysis on my part. ;)
About spells, I think I'll stick with Grease for now. I had considered Saving Finale, but read that it wasn't that useful for an archeaeologist. Since my 'performance' (Archaeologist's Luck) only affects myself, I can't use the saving finale on party members...
The only thing the 'trip' weapon property does is that it allows you to drop your weapon as a free action instead of falling prone if you fail the trip attempt by 10 or more. You can still use a longspear to trip at range :) (mind, your opponent gets an AoO vs you because you lack the improved trip feat, but they won't get to use it unless they have reach themselves)
Thanks for the useful input. The longspear is a great idea, I hadn't considered that. If I understand correctly, I can't use it to trip at range. I would need a guisarme for that, which requires martial weapon proficiency. That doesn't seem to matter too much, though. If I can get some good AoO's in with the longspear before the enemies can attack me, that should be good enough. I've discarded the switch to DEX-based: it doesn't really fit the concept I had in mind, and making the switch now will lead to even more analysis paralysis on my part. ;)
As Pounce mentioned, you can use a longspear to trip. Here is the relevant FAQ.
Trip Weapons: If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?
No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.On a related note, you don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.
Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.
About spells, I think I'll stick with Grease for now. I had considered Saving Finale, but read that it wasn't that useful for an archeaeologist. Since my 'performance' (Archaeologist's Luck) only affects myself, I can't use the saving finale on party members...
If you are using reach tactics, Long Arm and Enlarge Person are useful spells since each will extend your reach.