Best senses on a Familiar?


Advice


So I was thinking about taking a Sage + Figment familiar for Knowledge skills as a Tattooed Sorcerer (I can use Figment to boost its Intellect by +2 thanks to Evolution points!), but I also thought it would be useful to use my familiar to grant me visibility of invisible enemies with blindsense (bat?) or darkvision (???)... since talking is a free action, when they get Speak with Master they'll just relay any info on the location of enemies, right? I could get the Telephatic Link feat as well to drive this home.

Do you recommend any familiars for these purposes? Preferably one with a good bonus!

EDIT: Ioun Wyrd familiars have blindsense 30 ft which seems like a charm -- could I have a figment Ioun Wyrd without paying for the construction cost?!


Improved Familiars don't get speak with animals of its kind and can't be a figment.


deuxhero wrote:
Improved Familiars don't get speak with animals of its kind and can't be a figment.

Kneejerk post? He didn't mention any improved familiars


I didn't realize Ioun Wyrd wasn't an actual Improved Familiar, just a familiar with an extra cost. Seems a lot more useful now.

Grand Lodge

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Greensting Scorpion starts with tremorsense. As long as it is in contact with the earth it can find it.

Bat has Senses blindsense 20 ft., low-light vision; Perception +6. It has the ability to locate.

There is a handful of them that have scent. While not as good as Above they can get in an area by smell...which is typically enough for a glitter dusting...Hell I'd hit my familiar with it and not care.

Improved familiars have other ways...Imp has Detect good, Detect Magic, and see in darkness. He can pinpoint an aura from a spell.


Bats are my favorite familiars for scouting. In a home game, I have a 5th level shaman (spirit = lore) whose Bat (School Familiar, Conjuration) has:

* Improved Evasion
* Blindsense 20 feet
* 40ft fly speed (Good)
* AC 19 (+2 Dex, +3 natural, +4 Size)
* Low-light Vision
* Telepathic Link to its master while within 1 mile of master.
* Dimension Door*** 2/day (as SLA) to master's side.
* Cannot be tracked by scent (Deodorizing Agent**)
* +37 Stealth
(+12 size modifier, +8 racial modifier*, +2 Dex, +4 spirit animal bonus, +8 skill modifier, +3 feat bonus of Skill Focus = Stealth)

* = Evolved Familiar Feat, 1pt evolution = Skilled (Stealth)
** = "Coating a creature in a vial of this milky, odorless substance takes 1 minute and renders it scentless for 1d3 hours. Creatures that rely on scent for locating creatures do not gain the benefit of this ability against a creature affected by a dose of deodorizing agent. (Cost = 30 gold)"
*** = Range of Dimension Door = 600 feet.

Grand Lodge

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Bats are better than people give them credit for.

Sure you don't get the initiative modifier...but honestly if you're stacking Initiative all the way up your min-maxing. +8 is good enough. People get so blinded by it that they miss the fun things you can do with other minor familiars. Like that above Bat. Makes a great scout.


Spoiler:
Class: Shaman
Level: 5
Archetype: N/A
(dual-talent, +2 INT and +2 CHA, Human)

Stat Array
STR 8 / DEX 12 / CON 10 / INT 16 / WIS 16 / CHA 16

Feats
1st Level: Evolved Familiar
3rd Level: Extra Hex -> Witch's Hex -> Slumber hex
5th Level: Telepathic Link

Hexs
2nd level hex: Evil Eye
3rd level hex: Slumber
4th level hex: Arcane Enlightenment

Bat stealth (+37) modifier.
Hide check while flying 1/2 speed: 39 to 57
Hide check while flying full speed: 39 to 52

To min-max my Bat to be a spy-machine, I only sacrificed my 1st and 5th level feat and my constant-spirit had to be Lore. The rest of the character I had full control over.

Also yes you only need really +8 on Initiative as caster if its a must-have for you. The higher you go the more you over-specialize in Initiative and the greater likelyhood you are weaker as a result as a caster as a good portion of your resources are poured into Initiative.

Green Scoprion = +4 Initiative
Alertness feat(from Scorpion while within arm's reach) = +2 Initiative
Dexterity 14 or Reactionary Trait = +2 Initiative
Total: +8

Shaman is also one of the more hilarious classes when it comes to familiars.

Squirrel Tank:
Squirrel Tank
AC: 22 (10 + 5 Dex + 4 Size + 3 Natural)
Flat-Footed: 17 (10 + 4 Size + 3 Natural)
Touch: 15

Full Defense: AC (26), FF (17), Touch (19)

HP: 6 (Master has D8 Hit die (8) + FORT 20 (+5) = 13)
Hit Die: 1 (Aka Level 1 Shaman)

Saves
FORT -1/ REF +5/ WILL +1

Special Quality: Improved Evasion

Stat Array
STR 2 / DEX 21* / CON 9 / INT 6 / WIS 12 / CHA 8

* = Eye for Talent (+2 to selected ability score), human trait.

Spirit of: Battle (+2 Natural Armor. If it already has natural armor, increase it by 2.)

Could be funny for a Shaman 2/Witch 10 (Beast-Bonded) build as you become the Squirrel Tank.

@ Secret Wizard: If you haven't flipped through the pages of Familiar Folio and Animal Archive... you should.


Wanderer Ammon wrote:

Bats are my favorite familiars for scouting. In a home game, I have a 5th level shaman (spirit = lore) whose Bat (School Familiar, Conjuration) has:

* Improved Evasion
* Blindsense 20 feet
* 40ft fly speed (Good)
* AC 19 (+2 Dex, +3 natural, +4 Size)
* Low-light Vision
* Telepathic Link to its master while within 1 mile of master.
* Dimension Door*** 2/day (as SLA) to master's side.
* Cannot be tracked by scent (Deodorizing Agent**)
* +37 Stealth
(+12 size modifier, +8 racial modifier*, +2 Dex, +4 spirit animal bonus, +8 skill modifier, +3 feat bonus of Skill Focus = Stealth)

* = Evolved Familiar Feat, 1pt evolution = Skilled (Stealth)
** = "Coating a creature in a vial of this milky, odorless substance takes 1 minute and renders it scentless for 1d3 hours. Creatures that rely on scent for locating creatures do not gain the benefit of this ability against a creature affected by a dose of deodorizing agent. (Cost = 30 gold)"
*** = Range of Dimension Door = 600 feet.

How does a Shaman's familiar qualify as a School Familiar when a Shaman doesn't have the Arcane School class ability?


I ended up going with a Cosognathus or whatever it is called for the scent.

With a telepathic link, that should let me echolocate nearby enemies, right?

I took the Sage archetype but I'm not sure how it works... Does it keep its racial ranks or am I free to reassign them into knowledge skills?


Secret Wizard wrote:

I ended up going with a Cosognathus or whatever it is called for the scent.

With a telepathic link, that should let me echolocate nearby enemies, right?

I took the Sage archetype but I'm not sure how it works... Does it keep its racial ranks or am I free to reassign them into knowledge skills?

I don't see anything that says you can reassign the original skill ranks. The Sage archetype does grant it 2 skill ranks per level that you could assign to other skills.


What I'm wondering is whether the racial ranks (in this case, perception and swim) are considered automatically placed, or if they are natural bonuses, because they predate any "levels".

So - does it get +10 swim and +4 perception as a racial bonus, or should I consider them immovable first level ranks?


Do however remember that a Sage gaining 2 skill ranks at each level does not replace the familiar's native skill point gains and in PF skill ranks are retroactive with intelligence increases. At level 5 and every odd level after that your familiar will gain an extra skill point per HD.

This can be as many as 32 skill points with a Tidepool Dragon or Pooka (who have the record of HD for familiar options with 4 each. Both also have types that give a good array of class skills)

edit: The dinosaur seems to have 1 rank in perception with the +3 class skill bonus applied and 0 ranks in swim, with a +2 dex bonus (as it is small enough to use it for swim instead of strength) and the +8 bonus to "perform a special action or avoid a hazard." from having a swim speed given as a general modifer (admittedly the bonus covers 99% of swim uses but...).


Gisher wrote:
Wanderer Ammon wrote:

Bats are my favorite familiars for scouting. In a home game, I have a 5th level shaman (spirit = lore) whose Bat (School Familiar, Conjuration) has:

* Improved Evasion
* Blindsense 20 feet
* 40ft fly speed (Good)
* AC 19 (+2 Dex, +3 natural, +4 Size)
* Low-light Vision
* Telepathic Link to its master while within 1 mile of master.
* Dimension Door*** 2/day (as SLA) to master's side.
* Cannot be tracked by scent (Deodorizing Agent**)
* +37 Stealth
(+12 size modifier, +8 racial modifier*, +2 Dex, +4 spirit animal bonus, +8 skill modifier, +3 feat bonus of Skill Focus = Stealth)

* = Evolved Familiar Feat, 1pt evolution = Skilled (Stealth)
** = "Coating a creature in a vial of this milky, odorless substance takes 1 minute and renders it scentless for 1d3 hours. Creatures that rely on scent for locating creatures do not gain the benefit of this ability against a creature affected by a dose of deodorizing agent. (Cost = 30 gold)"
*** = Range of Dimension Door = 600 feet.

How does a Shaman's familiar qualify as a School Familiar when a Shaman doesn't have the Arcane School class ability?

House rule by my GM. If it wasn't a house rule I would have gone Shaman 4/Wizard 1.


deuxhero wrote:

Do however remember that a Sage gaining 2 skill ranks at each level does not replace the familiar's native skill point gains and in PF skill ranks are retroactive with intelligence increases. At level 5 and every odd level after that your familiar will gain an extra skill point per HD.

This can be as many as 32 skill points with a Tidepool Dragon or Pooka (who have the record of HD for familiar options with 4 each. Both also have types that give a good array of class skills)

edit: The dinosaur seems to have 1 rank in perception with the +3 class skill bonus applied and 0 ranks in swim, with a +2 dex bonus (as it is small enough to use it for swim instead of strength) and the +8 bonus to "perform a special action or avoid a hazard." from having a swim speed given as a general modifer (admittedly the bonus covers 99% of swim uses but...).

Oh, so:

- It has 1 skill rank due to HD on Perception. (Didn't know about the DEX to Swim rule)

- And then he gets 2 ranks per level + Int mod (minimum 2) as soon as I get him and every time I level up.

...right?


The sage bonus skill points is just 2 a level.

The high intelligence is still based on HD which means you get 1 skill point at 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17 and 19. With the way Pathfinder handles class skills, these are actually semi-relevent.


Wanderer Ammon wrote:
Gisher wrote:
How does a Shaman's familiar qualify as a School Familiar when a Shaman doesn't have the Arcane School class ability?
House rule by my GM. If it wasn't a house rule I would have gone Shaman 4/Wizard 1.

Ok. I thought I had overlooked a cool Shaman option.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Greensting Scorpion starts with tremorsense. As long as it is in contact with the earth it can find it.

I can't find tremorsense listed under the PRD entry for Greensting Scorpion, my Ultimate Magic PDF, or my Bestiary 4 PDF. Giant Scorpions have tremorsense, but apparently not their tiny Greensting cousins.


deuxhero wrote:

The sage bonus skill points is just 2 a level.

The high intelligence is still based on HD which means you get 1 skill point at 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17 and 19. With the way Pathfinder handles class skills, these are actually semi-relevent.

I do not getz this.


Sage Familiars get +2 skill points per level.
Knowledge skills are considered class skills for a Sage Familiar.
A Sage Familiar can do knowledge checks untrained.
A Sage Familiar gets 1/2 its level as a bonus on knowledge-related skill checks.
A Sage Familiar gets 5 + its level as Intelligence. (So a 3rd level wizard would have a familiar whose INT was 9 instead of 7.)


Secret Wizard wrote:
could I have a figment Ioun Wyrd without paying for the construction cost?!

I doubt it, but that would make sense.

Either way, a sorcerer talking to a heap of pebbles as if it's a sentient creature does make for a nice bit of comic relief.


If you take ioun wyrd as a tattooed sorcerer, do you get the benefits of whatever ioun stones are in the wyrd when it's in tattoo form? i.e. does that count as part of its special familiar ability? or is it just the +1 to nat ac and alertness (disregarding archetypes for the moment)?

edit: also, "For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher." - does your level affect the number ioun stones it can have?


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Secret Wizard wrote:
deuxhero wrote:

The sage bonus skill points is just 2 a level.

The high intelligence is still based on HD which means you get 1 skill point at 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17 and 19. With the way Pathfinder handles class skills, these are actually semi-relevent.

I do not getz this.

Most Familiars are Animals with 1 HD. Animals get 2+Int skill points per HD, min 1 point per HD.

Familiars start with low Int, so they get the min 1 point. But if your Int goes up, you get retroactive skill points.

A Sage has Int 5+level Int. So at level 5, his Int becomes 10, and he goes from 1 to 2 skill points for his racial HD.

Then, every 2 levels he will get another skill point for his Int going up.

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