Schadenfreude |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Good, I think.
They now (basically) get Shadow Strike and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats at 1st level. They get Dex instead of Str to damage with one type of finessable weapon (more at higher levels). Trap sense now also gives them a bonus to detect ambushes/avoid surprise.
They get a new debilitating injury ability, which reduces AC, attack bonus or speed. It relies on sneak attacks to activate, so if you're one of those people who think no one ever gets enough sneak attacks, you may have problems with that.
They get new uses from their choice of skills, called edges, which are quite nifty. The Stealth one, for example, makes it easier to snipe, whereas the Acrobatics one makes it easier to tumble through squares (and more at higher levels).
Finally, a fair number (not all) of the rogue talents and a lower proportion of the advanced talents have been buffed up: some are no longer 1/day, some give a larger bonus, and some have extra sub-powers.
I don't think it'll kill off the rogue hate, but it might balance it out a bit more.
Zolanoteph |
I had figured the unchained rogue was one of the more underwhelming additions to the book when I realized it was the only PU class I saw virtually no discussion of. I would totally still roll one though. I think the people who thought that the new rogue would be a super powerful combatant were setting themselves up for disappointment.
Do you think they're passable combatants now? Another question, do you think the ranged rogue has become any more viable?
Schadenfreude |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I wouldn't say underwhelming. The others have major changes which perhaps provoke discussion; the rogue's had a straight up power upgrade. As I said, I think the changes are good.
There's now almost no reason to play a Str-based rogue. Which is fair enough, because that's more or less what a slayer is for. This means that rogues are now even more SAD than they were before - dumping Str has no consequences.
There are more options to get sneak attacks - dim light, smoke, etc - so more traditional rogue tactics don't actually invalidate the class now. But the basic mechanic hasn't changed - you need to be flanking or catch them without a Dex modifier somehow.
(As a note, all of the rogue archetypes still work, so you can still play a Scout if you want the extra sneak attack flexibility).
The Dex bonus to damage, though, means that they've got a bit of a boost when they're not sneak attacking. So they've been thrown a bit of a bone there.
Debilitating injury at 4th level means that you can put negative conditions on opponents. You have a choice of three, one of which explicitly compensates for the rogue's low BAB, and another which compensates for a low AC (and there's a talent which lets you do both at once).
Two-weapon fighting from level 4 is therefore a much better option.
The skill edges also make sniping easier, so ranged is a better option until level 8 (when missing out on the iterative attacks starts to put you behind the damage curve). But the Finesse and damage bonus don't apply to ranged weapons (although debilitating injury does). I think playing an exclusively ranged rogue isn't significantly easier than it was before, but playing a switch hitter might be better.
I don't think this rogue is a straight up hammer. Instead of doing massive amounts of damage every round, it looks to me like they're intended to do medium-range damage and apply negative conditions.
Using the stamina rules also helps them, because they can get Combat Expertise without Int 13 (so you can dump Int as well as Str if you want), which makes the Surprise Manoeuvres feat a bit more attractive as another way to apply conditions. Plus some of the archetypes and the Sneaky Manoeuvres talent, of course.
I like it, because it implies rogues are fighting cleverly and disabling their foes, rather than just hammering them until they fall over.
Zwordsman |
oh.. i so want a scout rogue.. I love debuff style.. sounds much easier to infact have range and melee going
Do you switch out sneak attack or just get extra effectswhen it goes off?
If you don't trade the damage for the effect.. I would trade my damage for bleedy.
CRIPPLES AND BLEEDS FOR ALL!
assuming i ever get to play a game that allows unchained.
Mystically Inclined |
That sounds REALLY nice. I love the direction they've taken the Rogue in. It has a different feel from the other Rogue-likes, and damage + debuffer is a nice niche both mechanically and stylistically.
Looking forward to seeing how the stamina rules interact with the Rogue feats. Being able to get improved maneuvers without taking combat expertise sounds rather interesting.
Deadmanwalking |
How is Unchained handling preexisting archetypes for the altered classes?
I don't have the book, but from people's descriptions, almost all Barbarian Archetypes should work (those that alter what stats Rage gives bonuses to might be problematic), all Rogue and Summoner Archetypes should work, and almost no Monk archetypes work (as Monk gets the most profound redesign of the Class itself...Summoner is probably an equally large change, but that's almost all to their Eidolon and spell list).
Mark Seifter Designer |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Cuup wrote:How is Unchained handling preexisting archetypes for the altered classes?I don't have the book, but from people's descriptions, almost all Barbarian Archetypes should work (those that alter what stats Rage gives bonuses to might be problematic), all Rogue and Summoner Archetypes should work, and almost no Monk archetypes work (as Monk gets the most profound redesign of the Class itself...Summoner is probably an equally large change, but that's almost all to their Eidolon and spell list).
Unchained rogue can indeed take all its old archetypes (ninja is still a variant class of the regular rogue, but if you really wanted to, you could make an Unchained ninja easily, but it's not a default, since for one thing, the ninja is usually pretty much stronger than the rogue). Summoners has a few arches in non Pathfinder RPG books that might be problematic like those few barbarian ones (if they mess too deeply into the eidolon's business, like First World Summoner or something)
Chess Pwn |
Deadmanwalking wrote:Unchained rogue can indeed take all its old archetypes (ninja is still a variant class of the regular rogue, but if you really wanted to, you could make an Unchained ninja easily, but it's not a default, since for one thing, the ninja is usually pretty much stronger than the rogue). Summoners has a few arches in non Pathfinder RPG books that might be problematic like those few barbarian ones (if they mess too deeply into the eidolon's business, like First World Summoner or something)Cuup wrote:How is Unchained handling preexisting archetypes for the altered classes?I don't have the book, but from people's descriptions, almost all Barbarian Archetypes should work (those that alter what stats Rage gives bonuses to might be problematic), all Rogue and Summoner Archetypes should work, and almost no Monk archetypes work (as Monk gets the most profound redesign of the Class itself...Summoner is probably an equally large change, but that's almost all to their Eidolon and spell list).
Sorry Mark, but alternate classes are just archetypes.
Alternate Classes: Sometimes an archetype exchanges
so many class features that it almost becomes a new
class itself. In such cases, the class might warrant a
representation of all of the class features, even those
that it shares with its base class. While still technically
an archetype, characters who play this class have all
the tools they need to advance their character in one
convenient location. The antipaladin, ninja, and samurai
are all examples of an alternate class.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark Seifter wrote:Deadmanwalking wrote:Unchained rogue can indeed take all its old archetypes (ninja is still a variant class of the regular rogue, but if you really wanted to, you could make an Unchained ninja easily, but it's not a default, since for one thing, the ninja is usually pretty much stronger than the rogue). Summoners has a few arches in non Pathfinder RPG books that might be problematic like those few barbarian ones (if they mess too deeply into the eidolon's business, like First World Summoner or something)Cuup wrote:How is Unchained handling preexisting archetypes for the altered classes?I don't have the book, but from people's descriptions, almost all Barbarian Archetypes should work (those that alter what stats Rage gives bonuses to might be problematic), all Rogue and Summoner Archetypes should work, and almost no Monk archetypes work (as Monk gets the most profound redesign of the Class itself...Summoner is probably an equally large change, but that's almost all to their Eidolon and spell list).Sorry Mark, but alternate classes are just archetypes.
ACG wrote:Alternate Classes: Sometimes an archetype exchanges
so many class features that it almost becomes a new
class itself. In such cases, the class might warrant a
representation of all of the class features, even those
that it shares with its base class. While still technically
an archetype, characters who play this class have all
the tools they need to advance their character in one
convenient location. The antipaladin, ninja, and samurai
are all examples of an alternate class.
As it says, it is still technically an archetype, but they do work differently in some ways (for instance, alternate classes sometimes have their own archetypes like knight of the sepulcher; that would not fly at all for a normal archetype).
Montana77 |
Deadmanwalking wrote:Unchained rogue can indeed take all its old archetypes (ninja is still a variant class of the regular rogue, but if you really wanted to, you could make an Unchained ninja easily, but it's not a default, since for one thing, the ninja is usually pretty much stronger than the rogue). Summoners has a few arches in non Pathfinder RPG books that might be problematic like those few barbarian ones (if they mess too deeply into the eidolon's business, like First World Summoner or something)Cuup wrote:How is Unchained handling preexisting archetypes for the altered classes?I don't have the book, but from people's descriptions, almost all Barbarian Archetypes should work (those that alter what stats Rage gives bonuses to might be problematic), all Rogue and Summoner Archetypes should work, and almost no Monk archetypes work (as Monk gets the most profound redesign of the Class itself...Summoner is probably an equally large change, but that's almost all to their Eidolon and spell list).
The Ninja does get a small power boost, since it can get rogue talents in place of ninja tricks, and some of the new rogue talents are more powerful.
rainzax |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Unchained Rogue Class Table
1- Finesse training, Sneak attack, Trapfinding
2- Evasion, Rogue talent
3- Danger Sense, Finesse training
4- Debilitating injury, Rogue talent, Uncanny Dodge
5- Rogue's edge
6- Rogue talent
7-
8- Rogue talent, Improved uncanny dodge
9-
10- Advanced talents, Rogue talent, Rogue's edge
11- Finesse training
12- Rogue talent
13-
14- Rogue talent
15- Rogue's edge
16- Rogue talent
17-
18- Rogue talent
19- Finesse training
20- Master Strike, Rogue talent, Rogue's edge
Scavion |
Snorb wrote:Does it actually serve as a means to cure HP damage?Unchained rogue looks pretty good; I'm gonna play one in Road to Revolution on Monday.
Also, holy crap you guys Heal is actually worth training up now thanks to the skill unlocks.
Sure. You receive the benefits of resting a full day(2 x Character Level in hit points and heal two points of ability damage.).
Seerow |
Arachnofiend wrote:Sure. You receive the benefits of resting a full day(2 x Character Level in hit points and heal two points of ability damage.).Snorb wrote:Does it actually serve as a means to cure HP damage?Unchained rogue looks pretty good; I'm gonna play one in Road to Revolution on Monday.
Also, holy crap you guys Heal is actually worth training up now thanks to the skill unlocks.
How often, and how long does it take to get that benefit? What level does it come online?
Scavion |
Scavion wrote:How often, and how long does it take to get that benefit? What level does it come online?Arachnofiend wrote:Sure. You receive the benefits of resting a full day(2 x Character Level in hit points and heal two points of ability damage.).Snorb wrote:Does it actually serve as a means to cure HP damage?Unchained rogue looks pretty good; I'm gonna play one in Road to Revolution on Monday.
Also, holy crap you guys Heal is actually worth training up now thanks to the skill unlocks.
5th level, treating deadly wounds takes 1 hour(Though there are effects that reduce this time), once per day(There are effects that let you do it more than once).
Ruggs |
I wouldn't say underwhelming. The others have major changes which perhaps provoke discussion; the rogue's had a straight up power upgrade. As I said, I think the changes are good.
There's now almost no reason to play a Str-based rogue. Which is fair enough, because that's more or less what a slayer is for. This means that rogues are now even more SAD than they were before - dumping Str has no consequences.
There are more options to get sneak attacks - dim light, smoke, etc - so more traditional rogue tactics don't actually invalidate the class now. But the basic mechanic hasn't changed - you need to be flanking or catch them without a Dex modifier somehow.
(As a note, all of the rogue archetypes still work, so you can still play a Scout if you want the extra sneak attack flexibility).
The Dex bonus to damage, though, means that they've got a bit of a boost when they're not sneak attacking. So they've been thrown a bit of a bone there.
Debilitating injury at 4th level means that you can put negative conditions on opponents. You have a choice of three, one of which explicitly compensates for the rogue's low BAB, and another which compensates for a low AC (and there's a talent which lets you do both at once).
Two-weapon fighting from level 4 is therefore a much better option.
The skill edges also make sniping easier, so ranged is a better option until level 8 (when missing out on the iterative attacks starts to put you behind the damage curve). But the Finesse and damage bonus don't apply to ranged weapons (although debilitating injury does). I think playing an exclusively ranged rogue isn't significantly easier than it was before, but playing a switch hitter might be better.
I don't think this rogue is a straight up hammer. Instead of doing massive amounts of damage every round, it looks to me like they're intended to do medium-range damage and apply negative conditions.
Using the stamina rules also helps them, because they can get Combat Expertise without Int 13 (so you can...
I love the concept of the rogue as a debuffer or strategic combatant. That said, I'd also be interested to see how these boosts affect their damage, etc.
Something in me wants them to be that medium track--not a King Damage class, but a more utilitarian one with strategy, and sneakery, built in, in an interesting and fun way.
It's for this reason I was thrilled when the rogue was effectively "split" into several classes. For too long, it's seemed as though folks were arguing for "master of x" role (see: slayer, swashbuckler, investigator), but there were too many things the rogue was "supposed to" be the master of.
The rogue wore too many hats, and didn't have its own identity--yet, many conflicting ideals over what it SHOULD be.
Regarding some of those concerns, I really would <3 to see a damage comparison to the fighter, slayer. The rogue mostly hurt for accuracy and opportunity; it looks as though both were aided and dependencies reduced...how did it change the other numbers? Any discussion, here?
Schadenfreude |
Oh, great... So still no replacement for a CLW wand.
Never mind.
No, but they do completely different things.
A CLW wand heals 1d8+1 hp for 15 gp (average 0.37 hp/gp) in one round. It's really good for a small amount of healing when you need it quickly, or when you've got a couple of minutes to burn through some charges.
A wand of lesser restoration costs 36 gp per point of ability damage healed (on average).
Treating deadly injuries heals 1 hp/level for 10 gp (1/5 of a heal kit) in an hour. Or for free, if you take a -4 penalty. There's a lot of down time in most adventures, particularly if you're playing to a 15 min adventuring day, when you can tend wounds, so while it's not ideal in the heat of combat, it's not a bad decision while resting.
With skill unlocks, and assuming you've maxed out Heal:
At 5th level, you heal 5 hp and 1 ability damage for 10 gp (0.5 hp/gp - already better than the wand - plus a free point of ability damage, or 1/4 what it would cost using wands).
At 10th level, you heal 20 hp and 2 ability damage for 10 gp (2 hp/gp or 1/8 of the wand cost).
At 15th level, you heal 45 hp and 3 ability damage for 10 gp (4.5 hp/gp)
At 20th level, you heal 120 hp and 6 ability damage.
Yes, you could do all this with magic if you wanted to. But why spend the resources (in either gp or spell slots) when you don't need to?
As Scavion said, it's a really cost-effective way of getting rid of ability damage.
Snowblind |
Arachnofiend wrote:Oh, great... So still no replacement for a CLW wand.
Never mind.
No, but they do completely different things.
A CLW wand heals 1d8+1 hp for 15 gp (average 0.37 hp/gp) in one round. It's really good for a small amount of healing when you need it quickly, or when you've got a couple of minutes to burn through some charges.
A wand of lesser restoration costs 36 gp per point of ability damage healed (on average).
Treating deadly injuries heals 1 hp/level for 10 gp (1/5 of a heal kit) in an hour. Or for free, if you take a -4 penalty. There's a lot of down time in most adventures, particularly if you're playing to a 15 min adventuring day, when you can tend wounds, so while it's not ideal in the heat of combat, it's not a bad decision while resting.
With skill unlocks, and assuming you've maxed out Heal:
At 5th level, you heal 5 hp and 1 ability damage for 10 gp (0.5 hp/gp - already better than the wand - plus a free point of ability damage, or 1/4 what it would cost using wands).
At 10th level, you heal 20 hp and 2 ability damage for 10 gp (2 hp/gp or 1/8 of the wand cost).
At 15th level, you heal 45 hp and 3 ability damage for 10 gp (4.5 hp/gp)
At 20th level, you heal 120 hp and 6 ability damage.
Yes, you could do all this with magic if you wanted to. But why spend the resources (in either gp or spell slots) when you don't need to?
As Scavion said, it's a really cost-effective way of getting rid of ability damage.
First of all, FYI many people use cl1 paladin wands. Those are av. 6gp per ability damage point healed. Healer's kits barely beat that at level 10. Infernal healing wands are the same here - better and faster until level 10, at which point the gold difference barely matters.
Second, by 5th level CLW/Infernal healing wands and paladin lesser restoration wands aren't that much of a party expense. By 10th they are chump change.
Third, ability damage rarely occurs one point at a time. The average damage from a single shadow hit (a CR3 creature, albeit somewhat under CR'd) is 3.5 str damage. You can heal this off in one go at level 15-20. Same thing for hp damage - you are healing 2 hp/HD at level 10. Most frontline characters rock around 6-10 hp/HD, depending on if they are 3/4 bab characters or high Con full-bab martials. You are healing about 1/3-1/5 of their hp. I can tell you that in serious fights if a character takes a beating they usually end up losing more than half their hp.
Forth, Heal costs you a whole bunch of skill points. The majority of divine healers would rather not use up 1/2-1/4 of their precious 2+int skill points on making dirt-cheap healing even more dirt cheap under a fairly narrow set of circumstances. Most UMD friendly characters have better things to spend their skill points on as well (rogues are the ones this applies least to, shockingly enough).
Fifth, someone mentioned "effects" that decrease the time or increase the number of times per day heal can be used this way. If these "effects" have any non-trivial costs the one advantage Heal has over wands goes flying out the window.
People want a cost efficient way to restore damage without requiring a long period of free time or relying on getting stabbed by a magic stick. Even with max ranks, Heal still takes multiple days until very high levels if serious damage happened. Even if serious damage *didn't* happen, it still takes 1 hour/character to heal up injuries. The only thing that might change this is those "effects", but they better be fairly cheap or else the one advantage Heal has over wands (lower gp cost...eventually) gets thrown out the window and it's back to minutes of post battle wand jabbings.
Going off topic a bit, am I getting the wrong impression or are a lot of the decent player options only available at fairly high levels in unchained?
B. A. Robards-Debardot |
Arachnofiend wrote:Oh, great... So still no replacement for a CLW wand.
Never mind.
No, but they do completely different things.
A CLW wand heals 1d8+1 hp for 15 gp (average 0.37 hp/gp) in one round. It's really good for a small amount of healing when you need it quickly, or when you've got a couple of minutes to burn through some charges.
A wand of lesser restoration costs 36 gp per point of ability damage healed (on average).
Treating deadly injuries heals 1 hp/level for 10 gp (1/5 of a heal kit) in an hour. Or for free, if you take a -4 penalty. There's a lot of down time in most adventures, particularly if you're playing to a 15 min adventuring day, when you can tend wounds, so while it's not ideal in the heat of combat, it's not a bad decision while resting.
With skill unlocks, and assuming you've maxed out Heal:
At 5th level, you heal 5 hp and 1 ability damage for 10 gp (0.5 hp/gp - already better than the wand - plus a free point of ability damage, or 1/4 what it would cost using wands).
At 10th level, you heal 20 hp and 2 ability damage for 10 gp (2 hp/gp or 1/8 of the wand cost).
At 15th level, you heal 45 hp and 3 ability damage for 10 gp (4.5 hp/gp)
At 20th level, you heal 120 hp and 6 ability damage.
Yes, you could do all this with magic if you wanted to. But why spend the resources (in either gp or spell slots) when you don't need to?
As Scavion said, it's a really cost-effective way of getting rid of ability damage.
Even at level 5, this would be very welcomed by my home game group playing Mummy's Mask (so many lesser restorations).
Raltus |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I love how people try to make the game as "easy" as possible. Well our group only buys from Paladins for their wands because they're the cheapest. What if you GM didn't allow for that? What if at later levels they didn't allow you to go to Magicmart for all your gearing up needs?
Do you have a Paladin in your group with the crafting feats?
I just find that people won't play unless they have theory crafted everything right out the window. I for one am happy for the changes to the rogue and the changes to the skills because some were over powered and some were not really worth your time. If you play a character to have 2 really high Stats and the rest dump that is your way of playing. I for one don't like to dump stats unless I have to.
Snorb |
Schadenfreude wrote:Even at level 5, this would be very welcomed by my home game group playing Mummy's Mask (so many lesser restorations).Arachnofiend wrote:Oh, great... So still no replacement for a CLW wand.
Never mind.
No, but they do completely different things.
A CLW wand heals 1d8+1 hp for 15 gp (average 0.37 hp/gp) in one round. It's really good for a small amount of healing when you need it quickly, or when you've got a couple of minutes to burn through some charges.
A wand of lesser restoration costs 36 gp per point of ability damage healed (on average).
Treating deadly injuries heals 1 hp/level for 10 gp (1/5 of a heal kit) in an hour. Or for free, if you take a -4 penalty. There's a lot of down time in most adventures, particularly if you're playing to a 15 min adventuring day, when you can tend wounds, so while it's not ideal in the heat of combat, it's not a bad decision while resting.
With skill unlocks, and assuming you've maxed out Heal:
At 5th level, you heal 5 hp and 1 ability damage for 10 gp (0.5 hp/gp - already better than the wand - plus a free point of ability damage, or 1/4 what it would cost using wands).
At 10th level, you heal 20 hp and 2 ability damage for 10 gp (2 hp/gp or 1/8 of the wand cost).
At 15th level, you heal 45 hp and 3 ability damage for 10 gp (4.5 hp/gp)
At 20th level, you heal 120 hp and 6 ability damage.
Yes, you could do all this with magic if you wanted to. But why spend the resources (in either gp or spell slots) when you don't need to?
As Scavion said, it's a really cost-effective way of getting rid of ability damage.
Yeah, but to be fair, you'd need to either be an Unchained Rogue of enough level or take the Signature Skill (Heal) feat to even get the benefits. =p
Snowblind |
I love how people try to make the game as "easy" as possible. Well our group only buys from Paladins for their wands because they're the cheapest. What if you GM didn't allow for that? What if at later levels they didn't allow you to go to Magicmart for all your gearing up needs?
Do you have a Paladin in your group with the crafting feats?
I just find that people won't play unless they have theory crafted everything right out the window. I for one am happy for the changes to the rogue and the changes to the skills because some were over powered and some were not really worth your time. If you play a character to have 2 really high Stats and the rest dump that is your way of playing. I for one don't like to dump stats unless I have to.
Unfortunately, even if the GM doesn't allow paladin lesser restoration wands and/or infernal healing wands, 1 hp/HD and a single ability point per day is still too weaksause to be useful in the majority of situations. It might mitigate the cost of healing somewhat when the party has a whopping 1 hour per party member to sit around and apply bandaids to people, but it doesn't actually replace wands in any way shape or form when the party needs to be healed reasonably quickly. It also costs 1 skill point per level and either a feat (instead of Craft Wand, say) or being a rogue.
In other words, if *any* of the typical magical healing is available, Heal is a minor money saver and a skill point sink at best.
FYI if any of the typical magical healing isn't available, one of five things is going to happen:
a)the party is going to have ridiculous amounts of free time between encounters to the point where party members would probably be able to use Long Term Care anyway, making the new skill use feature fairly useless anyway (1 days of bed rest would heal 4 hp/HD and 4 ability damage, vs 2 hp/HD and 2 ability damage at level 14). Treat Deadly Wounds can't heal damage taken after 24 hours anyway, so after a tough battle there will be 1-3 days of bedrest for badly wounded PCs.
b)the party is going to have an unusual alternative method of healing through some other source (custom GM provided healing item, NPC healer tagging along, houseruled healing ability etc). I doubt this is what you are thinking of if you have a negative opinion about magic marts.
c)The players will resort to what I suspect you would refer to as "broken" playstyles. Tactics like SoL and archery behind summoned, undead or enchanted meatshields backed up by BFC done by optimized and probably min-maxed PCs with a high level of inter-party synergy (I actually like this kind of play, but I wouldn't force it on players who just wanna be AM BARBARIAN and break faces).
d)one player will have to devote themselves heavily to healing. This means that a 4 PC game has 3 characters and a bandaid dispenser. Having post-combat wand stabbings be a universal constant is better than telling the player "One of you will have to play a healbot. I will let you sort it out amongst yourselves who gets to be the party gimp"(some like this playstyle, I don't, and I wouldn't force a player into this role against their preference).
e)the PCs die. Walking into a non-trivial encounter as a frontliner with 1/4 hp is a death sentence. There isn't a way around this without quick healing between encounters(b,d), negating the need for frontliners (c), not having more than 1 or 2 encounters per day with some downtime between (a), or only throwing very easy fights at the PCs
Also, can someone look at the Unchained PDF and tell me what the "effects" that improve Treat Deadly Wounds I saw people mention are. If mundane items can turn Heal into something that can for 40gp and 1 minute heal 5hp/HD or thereabouts then I will change my tune. Heal actually needs to heal up the PCs for a fair bit cheaper than a pile of CLW potions and heal them completely within a fairly small period of time (try about 20 minutes max) for it to be more than a money saver.
Snorb |
5 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest for one day.
10 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest and long-term care for one day.
15 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest for three days.
20 ranks: Using Tread Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest and long-term care for three days.
And all your character needs is enough Heal ranks, a healer's kit, and an hour of time.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Schadenfreude wrote:Debilitating injury is on top of the normal sneak attack damage.Do these stack with the other talents (pressure points offensive defense, etc) that add effects onto sneak attack damage?
Yes they do. Note that since one of the debilitating injuries is basically a better (since it helps the whole team) offensive defense, the Unchained rogue does not also get offensive defense (it isn't listed in Unchained in either a new version or as being unchanged because it became a debilitating injury). But you can totally combine with dispelling strike, crippling strike, and all your favorites!
Snowblind |
5 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest for one day.
10 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest and long-term care for one day.
15 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest for three days.
20 ranks: Using Tread Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest and long-term care for three days.
And all your character needs is enough Heal ranks, a healer's kit, and an hour of time.
An hour of time per PC wounded and only once per day per PC. At level 14 you can do 1 CR=APL+1 encounter and then maybe if your wounded PCs didn't take more than half their HP in damage and you have a few hours to spare for bandaid application you can go heal up and have another fight, assuming it isn't time for sleep yet. Then it's back to happy fun poking time with a CLW wand.
Snorb |
Snorb wrote:An hour of time per PC wounded and only once per day per PC. At level 14 you can do 1 CR=APL+1 encounter and then maybe if your wounded PCs didn't take more than half their HP in damage and you have a few hours to spare for bandaid application you can go heal up and have another fight, assuming it isn't time for sleep yet. Then it's back to happy fun poking time with a CLW wand.5 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest for one day.
10 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest and long-term care for one day.
15 ranks: Using Treat Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest for three days.
20 ranks: Using Tread Deadly Wounds causes your patient to regain HP and ability score damage as if they had complete bed rest and long-term care for three days.
And all your character needs is enough Heal ranks, a healer's kit, and an hour of time.
And then the PCs get to go to sleep for eight hours and heal up then! =p
.....Hmm. This requires a decent Wisdom investiture, skill ranks, and maybe maybe Skill Focus (Heal).
......I think I know what I wanna do for Wraith of the Righteous.
Blackwaltzomega |
Hey, does their level 3 feature literally say "can use dexto damage with one finessable weapon"?
That means they can DEX to damage with an elven branched spear. Sounds pretty useful.
That is a pretty nice option, although since I believe the Branched Spear is an exotic weapon you're probably only gonna see that on half-elves who snag it with Ancestral Arms. Although if the GM allows heirloom weapon, then that's a GREAT option for a rogue to have a powerful finesse weapon on hand.
Half-Elf is generally speaking my default for the rogue anyway, because Dual-Minded is often very hard to pass up as an option for nonmagical classes since it stacks with Iron Will to protect those weak will saves.
pH unbalanced |
LoneKnave wrote:Hey, does their level 3 feature literally say "can use dexto damage with one finessable weapon"?
That means they can DEX to damage with an elven branched spear. Sounds pretty useful.
That is a pretty nice option, although since I believe the Branched Spear is an exotic weapon you're probably only gonna see that on half-elves who snag it with Ancestral Arms. Although if the GM allows heirloom weapon, then that's a GREAT option for a rogue to have a powerful finesse weapon on hand.
Half-Elf is generally speaking my default for the rogue anyway, because Dual-Minded is often very hard to pass up as an option for nonmagical classes since it stacks with Iron Will to protect those weak will saves.
Branched spear is also considered a martial weapon by elves.
Arachnofiend |
LoneKnave wrote:Hey, does their level 3 feature literally say "can use dexto damage with one finessable weapon"?
That means they can DEX to damage with an elven branched spear. Sounds pretty useful.
That is a pretty nice option, although since I believe the Branched Spear is an exotic weapon you're probably only gonna see that on half-elves who snag it with Ancestral Arms. Although if the GM allows heirloom weapon, then that's a GREAT option for a rogue to have a powerful finesse weapon on hand.
Half-Elf is generally speaking my default for the rogue anyway, because Dual-Minded is often very hard to pass up as an option for nonmagical classes since it stacks with Iron Will to protect those weak will saves.
The Branched Spear is really one of those few exotic weapons that can be worth the feat. If the new Rogue isn't too feat intensive I can see myself picking it up quite often.