legal potions question for season 6


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Liberty's Edge 2/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

so i keep getting different answers from different gms on this for season 6.

So potion of Good Hope... is this legal? Available as bard only level 3.

Potion of Life bubble. Can be cast as ranger at level 3, but druid at level 4. is that legal.

Really hoping someone official answers this one because i get a different answer almost every time i ask.

5/5 *****

As per the guide Potions and Scrolls are assumed to be created by wizards, clerics or druids using the lowest spell level between them. If the spell isn't on any of their lists then you use the lowest level from any other class which can cast the spell. It is spelled out in the Guide on page 24.

Life Bubble cant be a potion as it is a level 4 Druid spell. Good Hope would be legal as it is level 3 and only on the bard list but would affect only you. Scrolls of Life Bubble are similarly spell level 4, caster level 7.

Scarab Sages

Guide to Play, page 24 wrote:

Potions, Scrolls, and Wands

All potions, scrolls, wands, and other consumables are made by clerics, druids, or wizards in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The only exceptions are spells that are not on the cleric, druid, or wizard spell list. For example, a scroll of lesser restoration must be purchased as a 2nd-level scroll off the cleric spell list and may not be purchased as a 1st-level scroll off the paladin spell list. If a spell appears at different levels on two different lists, use the lower level spell to determine cost. As an example, poison would be priced as a 3rd-level druid spell instead of a 4th-level cleric spell. All potions, scrolls, and wands are available only at the minimum caster level unless found at a higher caster level on a Chronicle sheet.
For the sake of simplicity, there is no difference between an arcane and divine scroll or wand. Thus a bard and cleric may both use the same scroll of cure moderate wounds.
Finally, scrolls of spells of 7th level or higher are not permitted for characters below level 12 unless you gain access to them on a Chronicle sheet that specifically lists them.

Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

5/5 *****

WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

Neither Good Hope nor Life Bubble are personal.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Also, don't forget that the pricing of the potion goes up if it isn't a cleric/druid/wizard spell (Good Hope would be 1050gp/potion), but is legal AFAIK

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Good hope is legal, but as BartonOliver mentioned 1050 GP per potion.
Potion is Life Bubble is not legal (but frankly far more usefull as a scroll) since Druids have it on their spell list, but can't craft it into potions since it is a 4th level spell.

You can only brew potions from 1-3rd level spells (and even if some classes get it earlier, you always have to pay/check the Wizard/Cleric/Druid lists first).

This is particularly relevant since alchemical allocation exists.

iGood hope is a decent spell, but with iheroism you will get more bang for your buck (unless you need the bonus to weapon damage).

5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

Where do you get that from? As far as I see, that's not true.

CRB, on potions wrote:
It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects.

Spells with a range of personal target a creature. They target the caster. (Such spells always have the line "Target: You".)

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

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Andreas Forster wrote:
WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

Where do you get that from? As far as I see, that's not true.

CRB, on potions wrote:
It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects.
Spells with a range of personal target a creature. They target the caster. (Such spells always have the line "Target: You".)

It is well hidden in the magic item creation chapter:

Someone said wrote:

Creating Potions

The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.

All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)

The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (a focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

Time Required Brewing a potion requires 1 day.

Feat(s) Required: Brew Potion.

Skill(s) Required: Spellcraft or Craft (alchemy)

Table: Potion Base Costs By Brewer's Class
Spell Level Cleric, Druid, Wizard Sorcerer Bard Paladin, Ranger*
0 25 gp 25 gp 25 gp —
1st 50 gp 50 gp 50 gp 50 gp
2nd 300 gp 400 gp 400 gp 400 gp
3rd 750 gp 900 gp 1,050 gp 1,050 gp
* Caster level is equal to class level –3.
Prices assume that the potion was made at the minimum caster level. The cost to create a potion is half the base price.

.

2/5

PRD. Magic Item Creation. Creating Potions.

The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.

All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)

The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) Brewing a potion requires 1 day.

Item Creation Feat Required: Brew Potion.

Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft or Craft (alchemy)

Scarab Sages

Andreas Forster wrote:
WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

Where do you get that from? As far as I see, that's not true.

CRB, on potions wrote:
It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects.
Spells with a range of personal target a creature. They target the caster. (Such spells always have the line "Target: You".)

What the two posters above stated. It's in the item creation rules. It states that they cannot be made from those spells. So no potions of Shield, Monstrous Physique, etc.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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neferphras wrote:
i keep getting different answers from different gms on this for season 6.

Just as an FYI, rules such as this don't (generally) change from Season to Season.

This is the same answer you would have received last Season, and you should expect the same answer again next Season.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

ok so neutralize poison yes, but at druid cost, life bubble no, because not at level 3 druid.... yet we can buy a only of bless weapon (paladin only spell at first level) as a first level oil. That is well... funky. Is what it is.

4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Neferphras, can you explain what you find funky about it? We might be able to clean up the explanation a bit.

It helps me to think of the wizard/cleric/druid spell lists as Box A, and all the other spell lists as Box B.

You always look in Box A first. If you find the spell in Box A, you find the lowest level for the spell in Box A and use that.

You only look in Box B if you can't find the spell in Box A. You use the lowest level for the spell in Box B.

So for your examples:
Life Bubble: We check Box A (wizard/cleric/druid) and find three copies of Life Bubble: wizard 5, cleric 5, and druid 4. Neither of those levels are available as a potion, so we can't get one. Note: Because we found the spell in Box A, we don't even check Box B.

Bless Weapon: We check Box A (wizard/cleric/druid), but Bless Weapon is not in there. So we check Box B and find one copy of Bless Weapon: Paladin 1. We can get level 1 spells as a potion or oil, so we can get it. (In this case, we have to get it as an oil, because it's cast on an object, not a person, but that's actually irrelevant to the spell list issue.)

Grand Lodge 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There is one exception (LINK)

5/5 *****

There is also the occasional "illegal" potion on chronicle sheets. I can think of one level 4 wizard spell potion immediately and there may be others.

Scarab Sages 4/5

claudekennilol wrote:
There is one exception (LINK)

I was not aware of that exception. That's something my Monk would want to pick up. Not for every encounter, but useful to have regardless. So would Strong Jaw need to be a potion or an oil?

Grand Lodge 2/5

Ferious Thune wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
There is one exception (LINK)
I was not aware of that exception. That's something my Monk would want to pick up. Not for every encounter, but useful to have regardless. So would Strong Jaw need to be a potion or an oil?

Specifically the thread is talking about a "potion of strong jaw" which is what Mike ok'd. From every angle I can think of a potion is mechanically superior. (trait/feat to enhance use speed)

Scarab Sages 4/5

Ok, it affects all natural attacks, so that makes sense. I think I know what I'll be buying before my Monk's next scenario. Also, if this is qualifying as a 3rd level potion, my Investigator might consider it for Alchemical Allocation. His attacks (via Alter Self) are much smaller, so it's not that much of a benefit. A d4 or a d6 going to d6 or d8 on three attacks isn't as exciting as 2d6 going to 3D6 on anywhere from 5 to 11 attacks per round depending on haste, Ki, and AoOs.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

claudekennilol wrote:
There is one exception (LINK)

I wonder why that thread was locked.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

claudekennilol wrote:
There is one exception (LINK)

... I think it is pretty clear, someone has quite incrimination photos of Michael Brook. I a unlikely to complain, but to be honest as a hunter player, I would never buy the potion anyway.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Nefreet wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
There is one exception (LINK)
I wonder why that thread was locked.

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that. Maybe it had something to do with it being marked as "no response needed" since Mike replied in the thread instead of a FAQ?

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Blessed weapon IS actually available as a cleric spell under the glory domain. So there is no reason why a cleric could not make a potion of it if they have the glory domain, which is why i thought the blessed weapon as a first level spell as 'funky'. Remember at the top looking for an official ruling because this is confusing. Hopefully Sean or Michael will clarify. I picked the life bubble example specifically because is is available to druids and is 3rd level for a ranger. Does it fall under the LockJaw scenario or no? I totally get the wanting to prevent the potion of stoneskin, but if thats the reason, just say that and let 3rd level potions for rangers and palidins fall as they may.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

PS, i would also be fine with saying summoners cant make potions period. They dont need the help.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

neferphras wrote:
Blessed weapon IS actually available as a cleric spell under the glory domain.

Many spells are available to characters via archetypes, bloodlines, feats, domains, and even traits.

That doesn't make Bless Weapon a Cleric spell.

I think the way that the Guide is written right now provides the least amount of confusion (with the one linked exception being the only special case).

neferphras, what wording would you prefer?

And I don't ask this in a general sort of sense. Post a paragraph that you feel addresses the confusion in the best manner.

Scarab Sages 4/5

I'd guess the other thread was locked in part to keep people from asking that additional spells be made an exception. Honestly, I'm very surprised Mike made an exception for Strong Jaw. I had to read the post a few times, because I expected it to be sarcasm. But, since it appears to be legal, I'll make use of it. I don't expect them to extend that logic to other spells, though, and asking is probably more likely to get potions of Strong Jaw removed.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

humm good question on the wording. I will give it a shot below.
Some earlier additions had different wordings, i was able to find threads on that.

Maybe.

All potions, scrolls, wands, and other consumables are
made by clerics, druids, or wizards in Pathfinder Society
Organized Play. The only exceptions are spells that are not
on the cleric, druid, or wizard spell list. For example, a
scroll of lesser restoration must be purchased as a 2nd-level
scroll off the cleric spell list and may not be purchased as
a 1st-level scroll off the paladin spell list. If a spell appears
at different levels on two different lists, use the lower level
spell to determine cost. As an example, poison would be
priced as a 3rd-level druid spell instead of a 4th-level cleric
spell. All potions, scrolls, and wands are available only at
the minimum caster level unless found at a higher caster
level on a Chronicle sheet.

Then if allowed
Spells that are only available as a potion (3rd level or lower) by a class other than cleric, druid, or wizard are legal at the high price (bless weapon, life bubble). No potion can be purchase whose material component cost exceeds 25 gp is available for purchase. (ie stone skin).

If not allowed. Add
Spell that are on the druid, cleric, or Wizard spell list, but are only available as a potion (3rd level or lower) though alternate class are not legal for play.

Again i really dont have a preference here... other than gaining clarity.


Potion of good hope actually won't cost more than 1000 gold. It is still a 750 gold potion. It actually is as such shown in Ultimate equipment.

Other question though: How about Sphere of Invisibility?
Is that legal as a potion?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

It doesn't have a target, so no.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Mystic Lemur wrote:
It doesn't have a target...

Yes it does.


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Target? I though the only criteria which made a potion impossible was the range. Personal potion can't be made. But Sphere of invisibilty has the same Range as invisibilty (Personal OR Touch) so according to the rules it shall be possible.

But it wouldn't be the first time my German Core rulebook would show a "translation mistake".

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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The Fox wrote:
Mystic Lemur wrote:
It doesn't have a target...
Yes it does.

Well shucky darn. And here I thought that not having a Target line to go along with the Area line meant it didn't have one. Guess I have to look up Invisibility to see how Invisibility Sphere works. Really hope they clean things like this up if they ever put out Pathfinder 2.0

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Yes I had to check it too, but it says

Invisibility Sphere wrote:

This spell functions like invisibility, except that this spell confers invisibility upon all creatures within 10 feet of the recipient at the time the spell is cast. The center of the effect is mobile with the recipient.

So yeah clearly legal, it would even work as an oil, just pour it on a weapons.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Here's a weird one: an oil of explosive runes

Spoiler:
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
damage: 6d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 6, 1, 2, 1) = 15 force damage.
That wasn't very "explosive".


The Fox wrote:

Here's a weird one: an oil of explosive runes

** spoiler omitted **

Well, I thought about this one too, but I don't think it would be effective, since you have to put it on a text or something similar.

Or can you actually simply put it to your armor? If so, ok, but I doubt that is how the spell was actually intended.

Silver Crusade 3/5

I guess you could put a big note on your shield that read:

"Whatever you do, don't read this!"
and then pour the oil on that.

Though, I'm not sure you'd want to. Someone across the bar says, "Hey, what's that say on that guy's shield? 'Don't...read...this...'" BOOM! and you die to the force damage while he goes back to his beer.

Silver Crusade 3/5

I am so glad we are having this discussion. So many new ideas!


Hmm. Maybe you can make something similar like these explosive tag things from Naruto. Puting such prepared notes on Projectiles. But that propably would be a one trick pony only.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Clearly not even elementary school level..

Explosive Runes wrote:


You trace mystic runes upon a book, map, scroll, or similar object bearing written information. The explosive runes detonate when read, dealing 6d6 points of force damage. Anyone next to the explosive runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw; any other creature within 10 feet of the explosive runes is entitled to a Reflex save for half damage. The object on which the explosive runes were written also takes full damage (no saving throw). [

... time to remember kinder garden and finger paint those runes ^^

To make it work on anything, you have to add text first, but that does not preclude armor of blades... making your enemy read that text during combat is another thing entirely. ^^


I didn't think of combat actually. But aplying such a "message" on an Arrow or something and deliver it via an Arrow might be an idea. That's what I meant with one trick pony.

Think of Lethal weapon 2 where Murtough sat on the toilette and the BOOM Message on the Paper ;).

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Hmm. For my investigator a potion of Invisibility Sphere would be an interesting investment.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

i had to take a bit of a rest from PFS and came back to check out this tread.

Did anyone in a blog anywhere get an answer from Michael or John on this topic. Potion of life bubble? PFS legal or no?

Oh yeah btw potion of Invis Sphere... love that one my alchemist uses and abuse that one.

Others out there to consider
Potion of Prayer (double your pleasure if your Fates Favored)
Potion of Deeper Slumber (Very funny when you are an elf)
Daylight another good one

lots of options.

5/5 *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There is no uncertainty. Life Bubble is not a legal potion as it is a 4th level druid spell. I am not sure what you need clarifying.

Oils of Daylight are an excellent investment for dealing with Deeper Darkness nonsense.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

neferphras wrote:
Did anyone in a blog anywhere get an answer from Michael Tonya or John on this topic. Potion of life bubble? PFS legal or no?

The language in the Season 7 Guide did not change, so a potion of Life Bubble is still not legal.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

neferphras wrote:

Others out there to consider

Potion of Deep Slumber (Very funny when you are an elf)

Also wouldn't work since it doesn't target creatures, it's an AoE.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
neferphras wrote:

Others out there to consider

Potion of Deep Slumber (Very funny when you are an elf)
Also wouldn't work since it doesn't target creatures, it's an AoE.

Prayer doesn't have targets either.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

prayer has a target of you and allies 40ft around you... so it should be fine. it is just not a personal/ you.

check on the deeper slumber.

Prayer

Area all allies and foes within a 40-ft.-radius burst centered on you

Liberty's Edge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It doesn't target you though. It's an aoe.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

neferphras wrote:

prayer has a target of you and allies 40ft around you... so it should be fine. it is just not a personal/ you.

check on the deeper slumber.

Prayer

Area all allies and foes within a 40-ft.-radius burst centered on you

Prayer does not have any targets. It's an area that effects all creatures in the radius (just like deep slumber). The center of the area is you but you are not identified as a target.

4/5 *

Potions can't affect anyone but the user, can they? I don't see how invisibility sphere can work as a potion.

Scarab Sages 4/5

I'm not sure if the issue with Invisibility Sphere is whether a potion can affect more than the user or not. An Oil of Darkness, for example, can affect someone other than the user by them being in the radius of the effect. The issue is who does Invisibility Sphere target? The spell does not actually list a target. It's an emanation, pesumably from the caster. I'm not sure, but I think that means it can't be a potion, since it doesn't target one or more creatures. If it did target a creature, it seems likely it might be Target: you, but the description is a little vague on that point as well. As the listing exists, I don't think it's possible for a caster to target another specific individual other than themselves, so I believe that probably makes it ineligible as a potion.

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