Can I use Major Creation to create poison?

[Arcanemuses]

I'm playing a leprechaun inquisitor with skill focus in Craft: Alchemy for the purpose of creating various poisons. I can cast Major Creation 1/day as a SLA. The spell allows me to instantaneously make a product composed of "vegetable matter", provided I make the appropriate craft check to make the product. The product lasts for 2hrs/level.

It seems to me that black lotus extract, azure lily pollen, and blood leaf residue all count as poisons derived (crafted) from vegetable matter, given their names. Therefore, can my character's SLA create temporarily existing poisons, provided he makes his skill check?

BTW, if the answer is yes, it means I can get access to certain poisons for free AND the poison's traces on the corpse of my target will completely disappear after 2 hours. Cause of death: Unknown!

[wraithstrike]

The problem is that you you have to be able to craft the poison in one day, which may not be possible. Crafting tends to take a long time.

Black lotus extract 4,500 gp or 45000 silver pieces

However when you craft you need to pay 1/3 material cost so you only need to pay 15000 silver. With the spell the GM may wave the pricing, but the price is still a factor in how long it takes to craft something.

The DC is 20 So lets say you take 10 to insure you get a 20

20 x 20 = 400 progress in one week.

It would take you a long time to make that poison, much longer than the spell allows for the material to last.

[bigrig107]

Honestly, tempted to say "just let it work".
Poison is already not too good, why not let someone use it like this?

[wraithstrike]

The OP is a player so he may have to go through his GM.

In related news the Unchained book is supposed to have reworked poisons so they are better.

[Lifat]

bigrig107 wrote:

Honestly, tempted to say "just let it work".

Poison is already not too good, why not let someone use it like this?

The question was asked in the rules forum where the answer should always be our best guess at RAI based on RAW.

But I wholeheartedly concur with you that poisons suck for players because they usually haven't got a "natural" poison like some monsters do.
I'd be inclined to make up a new system of acquiring/creating poisons for the players if they wanted to use it... But it would be houserule territory.

[bigrig107]

Well, Unchained supposedly has a new poison system.

Maybe it'll make it slightly more viable.

[Arcanemuses]

Thank you all for your feedback. I'll see what my GM thinks.

[Joesi]

Using Creation to make the poison "straight out of the box" would be a solid "no" in my opinion. Why? because the poison part isn't really plant matter, it's just created by a plant.
It would be like saying oil or sugar or rubber (or even plastic?) is plant matter, which may it is theoretically, but not practically speaking.

Theoretically that would mean that the base plant which normally contains such compounds wouldn't contain those compounds either, but I would personally allow it to work.

That said, you'd need to be able to craft the poison in the time given, meaning you'd need master alchemist, and quite a bit of craft alchemy, and possibly slightly tweaked/improved crafting rules (such as crafting time being based on the skill check roll squared rather than the DC multiplied by the skill check roll which is illogical)

[Ascalaphus]

Looks to me like it should work just fine, even with minor creation. A wooden chair or a plant-based poison are both vegetable matter. The spell specifies what sort of material the object is made of (vegetable, metal, mineral etc.), not what kind of processing it's undergone.

And I don't see where you're all getting that 1-day creating time from? The spell has a 10-minutes casting time.

Notably though, you do need a sample as material component.

[Drakkiel]

If you have the feat Master Alchemist you basically get a 10x speed increase on making alchemical items. It allows you to use gp value instead of silver for the purpose of how long it takes to make.

[Ravingdork]

Drakkiel wrote:

If you have the feat Master Alchemist you basically get a 10x speed increase on making alchemical items. It allows you to use gp value instead of silver for the purpose of how long it takes to make.

I would also recommend the new Signature Skill feat from Pathfinder Unchained. If you choose Craft (alchemy) with it then you can suddenly make poisons in a flurry. Stacks VERY well with the Master Alchemist feat.

With the feat if you have 5 ranks in Craft (alchemy) you double the result of your Craft check before multiplying the result by the item’s DC when determining your weekly progress. If you have 10 ranks, you do not ruin any of your raw materials unless you fail a check by 10 or more. If you have 15 ranks then the result of your check is how much work you complete each day in silver pieces. With 20 ranks you can craft magic armor, magic weapons, magic rings, and wondrous items that fall under your category of Craft using the normal Craft rules (likely elixirs and similar items).