[PFS] Iomedaean Battle Cleric


Advice

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I'm not sure Improved Iniative is a must have, even though it's awesome. Maybe consider the reactionary trait, I get a lot of mileage of of magical lineage too.

The only feats I'd really say that are must have are weapon focus and power attack. The rest is season to flavor.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
How do you feel about the above build?

It's solid

Grand Lodge

Reactionary eats a trait, and Divine Warrior adds a flat +1 damage, every time I use magic weapon, or Divine Favor.

I suppose I could swap that.

I can't take Power Attack at first level, and if I want, I can retrain either Improved Initiative, or Tribal Scars, for Power Attack, after I get to second level.

I don't know what I would have instead of that.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Actually, I don't believe divine favor will trigger the Divine Warrior trait. It's a Personal spell, and the trait calls for spells cast on the weapon. :)


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Reactionary eats a trait, and Divine Warrior adds a flat +1 damage, every time I use magic weapon, or Divine Favor.

I suppose I could swap that.

I can't take Power Attack at first level, and if I want, I can retrain either Improved Initiative, or Tribal Scars, for Power Attack, after I get to second level.

I don't know what I would have instead of that.

Do you plan to branch into two weapon fighting for shield bash?

Grand Lodge

No, it says: "Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons, choose one of those weapons; it gains a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls for the duration of the spell."

Divine Favor says: "Calling upon the strength and wisdom of a deity, you gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3). The bonus doesn't apply to spell damage."

Seeing as the trait doesn't specify that it need be cast directly on the weapon, and Divine Favor effects weapon damage rolls, I figure they should work together.

Grand Lodge

Midnight-Gamer wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Reactionary eats a trait, and Divine Warrior adds a flat +1 damage, every time I use magic weapon, or Divine Favor.

I suppose I could swap that.

I can't take Power Attack at first level, and if I want, I can retrain either Improved Initiative, or Tribal Scars, for Power Attack, after I get to second level.

I don't know what I would have instead of that.

Do you plan to branch into two weapon fighting for shield bash?

No.

I would rather two-hand the Longsword.

The only way I could see using a Shield, is if I had Quick Draw, and a Quickdraw Shield, allowing me to put it away as a free action, attacking two-handed, then pulling it out as a free action, for added AC on my off turn.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Midnight-Gamer wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Reactionary eats a trait, and Divine Warrior adds a flat +1 damage, every time I use magic weapon, or Divine Favor.

I suppose I could swap that.

I can't take Power Attack at first level, and if I want, I can retrain either Improved Initiative, or Tribal Scars, for Power Attack, after I get to second level.

I don't know what I would have instead of that.

Do you plan to branch into two weapon fighting for shield bash?

No.

I would rather two-hand the Longsword.

The only way I could see using a Shield, is if I had Quick Draw, and a Quickdraw Shield, allowing me to put it away as a free action, attacking two-handed, then pulling it out as a free action, for added AC on my off turn.

That's fine by me, I didn't use it on my Cleric either, I was just asking to tailor advice. Improved iniative will be fine if you can't decide.

Grand Lodge

Outside of very specific builds, I avoid two-weapon fighting.

I can't really think of any trait that out-performs Divine Warrior, for this build.

Unless, someone can suggest something that does.

I will not drop Fate's Favored. It's just too good.


make sure you get an Inheritors Gauntlet

Grand Lodge

Considered.

Silver Crusade Contributor

blackbloodtroll wrote:

No, it says: "Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons, choose one of those weapons; it gains a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls for the duration of the spell."

Divine Favor says: "Calling upon the strength and wisdom of a deity, you gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3). The bonus doesn't apply to spell damage."

Seeing as the trait doesn't specify that it need be cast directly on the weapon, and Divine Favor effects weapon damage rolls, I figure they should work together.

Given that this is for PFS, I would expect some table variation, as I suspect that interpretation won't be universal. Just a heads-up. :)

Grand Lodge

How can it apply to weapon damage rolls, yet, somehow, not affect melee weapons?

I am just trying to figure out how it could be interpreted in a different way.

I am not being combative, but just trying to see how I would be approached with table variation.

If a Judge says "I don't think it applies, because...", I want to know what that "because" could be.

I had not even considered it might not apply.

Until now.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

How can it apply to weapon damage rolls, yet, somehow, not affect melee weapons?

I am just trying to figure out how it could be interpreted in a different way.

I am not being combative, but just trying to see how I would be approached with table variation.

If a Judge says "I don't think it applies, because...", I want to know what that "because" could be.

I had not even considered it might not apply.

Until now.

If the trait states: "Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons, choose one of those weapons; it gains a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls for the duration of the spell."

Then it can be argued that the spell needs to effect the weapon as opposed to the wielder. For example a "Object Touched" spell as opposed to a "Personal" spell.
If you examine the "Chosen of Iomedae" trait it mentions "... In addition, whenever light is cast upon this sword, the radius of light and its duration is doubled." Drawing a distinction beyond having "Light" cast upon the individual as opposed to a specific weapon.

Also as for feat suggestion, perhaps "Channeling Force" would be a good pick-up for later levels? You can grab it at level 3 when you learn your first force spell and for the cost of a Swift Action/one use of Channel Energy you'll grab the number of your channel dice onto damage for the next three attacks, so +2 at level 3 for example and cutting off at +6 for PFS play at level 11.

Grand Lodge

I understand it's Personal, but it's affecting the damage of your weapons.

If Divine Favor is not affecting the weapons you wield, then how can it add to the damage they do?

I am trying to figure out how a spell can specifically affect weapon damage rolls, but not actually affect the weapons dealing said damage.

It doesn't say "when you target any melee weapon".


it's pretty clear to me that the range is personal but the spell affects weapons

Grand Lodge

Does Force damage ignore hardness?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I understand it's Personal, but it's affecting the damage of your weapons.

If Divine Favor is not affecting the weapons you wield, then how can it add to the damage they do?

I am trying to figure out how a spell can specifically affect weapon damage rolls, but not actually affect the weapons dealing said damage.

It doesn't say "when you target any melee weapon".

Ah I see, having read Divine Favor/Power they do specify "...Weapon Damage rolls" so the argument can be made for the effect to trigger, though as to the question of "How can it add to the damage they do" I was unaware that the spells directly mentioned weapon damage, assuming for some reason that it was simply "Attack and Damage rolls".

As to force ignoring hardness? I have no clue, sorry.

Grand Lodge

I try to have my bases covered.

Table variation is something I work hard to avoid.

I keep color coded post-it notes in my Core Rulebook, for any PC that may have any rules confusion.

The moment a Judge begins "I don't think..." I have all relevant rules quotes marked and prepared. This sometimes includes print-outs of relevant FAQs.

I do not want rules debates. I do not f*ck around.

I work hard to solve problems, before they become problems.

It makes things easier for the Judge, my fellow players, and I.

Silver Crusade Contributor

"Affects weapons" is a very broad category, based on your interpretation. By your interpretation, enlarge person affects weapons, as the change in your size changes your attack and weapon damage rolls. Bull's strength also affects your weapon damage rolls via your Strength, and by your interpretation, would trigger Divine Warrior. So would blessing of fervor. Any spell that does anything to attack or damage rolls would.

The interpretation I think you're most likely to get from GMs is that, for Divine Warrior to trigger, the spell must directly affect the weapon in some way. This could be something obvious like magic weapon or instrument of agony, or something as simple as light. Masterwork transformation would be an easy way to do it, although per PFS rules, you can only have one. The same goes for continual flame.

I'm worried that you're setting yourself up for disappointment and disagreeable experiences. That said, if you can convince a GM to accept your interpretation, more power to you. :)


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I try to have my bases covered.

Table variation is something I work hard to avoid.

I keep color coded post-it notes in my Core Rulebook, for any PC that may have any rules confusion.

The moment a Judge begins "I don't think..." I have all relevant rules quotes marked and prepared. This sometimes includes print-outs of relevant FAQs.

I do not want rules debates. I do not f*ck around.

I work hard to solve problems, before they become problems.

It makes things easier for the Judge, my fellow players, and I.

I can imagine it does and you do, in any case having looked about the only additional "Force" damage seems to do is effect Incorporeal creatures normally.

Silver Crusade Contributor

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I try to have my bases covered.

Table variation is something I work hard to avoid.

I keep color coded post-it notes in my Core Rulebook, for any PC that may have any rules confusion.

The moment a Judge begins "I don't think..." I have all relevant rules quotes marked and prepared. This sometimes includes print-outs of relevant FAQs.

I do not want rules debates. I do not f*ck around.

I work hard to solve problems, before they become problems.

It makes things easier for the Judge, my fellow players, and I.

Just out of curiosity, are there any specific passages you would provide in support of your interpretation?


Kalindlara wrote:

"Affects weapons" is a very broad category, based on your interpretation. By your interpretation, enlarge person affects weapons, as the change in your size changes your attack and weapon damage rolls. Bull's strength also affects your weapon damage rolls via your Strength, and by your interpretation, would trigger Divine Warrior. So would blessing of fervor. Any spell that does anything to attack or damage rolls would.

The interpretation I think you're most likely to get from GMs is that, for Divine Warrior to trigger, the spell must directly affect the weapon in some way. This could be something obvious like magic weapon or instrument of agony, or something as simple as light. Masterwork transformation would be an easy way to do it, although per PFS rules, you can only have one. The same goes for continual flame.

I'm worried that you're setting yourself up for disappointment and disagreeable experiences. That said, if you can convince a GM to accept your interpretation, more power to you. :)

I "Believe" the argument is based around the wording of of Divine Warrior, notably: "Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons...."

Thus when we look at spells such as Divine Favor/Power they have a description including "You gain a +X luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls" the important aspect being the bolded section. By drawing from your examples neither Bull's Strength nor Blessing of Fervor would be appropriate since neither directly references modifying the weapon, instead granting knock-on effects that in turn effect the weapon (E.g. Extra strength granting to-hit/plus damage).

Silver Crusade Contributor

Corbynsonn wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

"Affects weapons" is a very broad category, based on your interpretation. By your interpretation, enlarge person affects weapons, as the change in your size changes your attack and weapon damage rolls. Bull's strength also affects your weapon damage rolls via your Strength, and by your interpretation, would trigger Divine Warrior. So would blessing of fervor. Any spell that does anything to attack or damage rolls would.

The interpretation I think you're most likely to get from GMs is that, for Divine Warrior to trigger, the spell must directly affect the weapon in some way. This could be something obvious like magic weapon or instrument of agony, or something as simple as light. Masterwork transformation would be an easy way to do it, although per PFS rules, you can only have one. The same goes for continual flame.

I'm worried that you're setting yourself up for disappointment and disagreeable experiences. That said, if you can convince a GM to accept your interpretation, more power to you. :)

I "Believe" the argument is based around the wording of of Divine Warrior, notably: "Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons...."

Thus when we look at spells such as Divine Favor/Power they have a description including "You gain a +X luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls" the important aspect being the bolded section. By drawing from your examples neither Bull's Strength nor Blessing of Fervor would be appropriate since neither directly references modifying the weapon, instead granting knock-on effects that in turn effect the weapon (E.g. Extra strength granting to-hit/plus damage).

Blessing of fervor affects attack rolls. Thus, if you're attacking with a weapon, it's affecting that weapon.

Bull's strength is the most out-there of the three, I'll grant you that. I see you agree on enlarge person, though.

What about the second part of Divine Warrior, though? "...choose one of those weapons". I cast divine favor. Which weapon have I affected? Technically, it doesn't seem to affect a weapon until I attack with it...

Silver Crusade Contributor

By the way, I believe the phrase "weapon damage rolls" exists primarily so that people don't add effects like inspire courage to their fireball or magic missile damage. I'm sure none of you care, but I have to add things like this.


Kalindlara wrote:
Corbynsonn wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

"Affects weapons" is a very broad category, based on your interpretation. By your interpretation, enlarge person affects weapons, as the change in your size changes your attack and weapon damage rolls. Bull's strength also affects your weapon damage rolls via your Strength, and by your interpretation, would trigger Divine Warrior. So would blessing of fervor. Any spell that does anything to attack or damage rolls would.

The interpretation I think you're most likely to get from GMs is that, for Divine Warrior to trigger, the spell must directly affect the weapon in some way. This could be something obvious like magic weapon or instrument of agony, or something as simple as light. Masterwork transformation would be an easy way to do it, although per PFS rules, you can only have one. The same goes for continual flame.

I'm worried that you're setting yourself up for disappointment and disagreeable experiences. That said, if you can convince a GM to accept your interpretation, more power to you. :)

I "Believe" the argument is based around the wording of of Divine Warrior, notably: "Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons...."

Thus when we look at spells such as Divine Favor/Power they have a description including "You gain a +X luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls" the important aspect being the bolded section. By drawing from your examples neither Bull's Strength nor Blessing of Fervor would be appropriate since neither directly references modifying the weapon, instead granting knock-on effects that in turn effect the weapon (E.g. Extra strength granting to-hit/plus damage).

Blessing of fervor affects attack rolls. Thus, if you're attacking with a weapon, it's affecting that weapon.

Bull's strength is the most out-there of the three, I'll grant you that. I see you agree on enlarge person, though.

What about the second...

Not saying I necessarily agree with the aforementioned interpretation, more just running it through my head and typing it down to see how it works. :)

As to "Enlarge Person" I actually do think this would be affected as it does mention "All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage." Since it specifically mentions affecting melee weapons while Divine Warrior notes "Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons, choose one of those weapons". I think it's fair to argue they interact.

And @Pedantic Princess: I know, I know.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Yeah, I think there is actually a valid case for enlarge person. :)


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Okay.

Here is a start:

Human cleric (crusader) of Iomedae 1

Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 10,

Feats: Improved Initiative, Toughness, Weapon Focus (longsword)

Traits: divine warrior, fate's favored

Domain War (Tactics subdomain)

Thoughts?

Just a point, and I don't know how valid this is for PFS, could you not drop Divine Warrior for Sword Scion (Longsword). I suppose it depends on what you want more, a conditional +1 to hit or an even more conditional +1 to damage.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Corbynsonn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Okay.

Here is a start:

Human cleric (crusader) of Iomedae 1

Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 10,

Feats: Improved Initiative, Toughness, Weapon Focus (longsword)

Traits: divine warrior, fate's favored

Domain War (Tactics subdomain)

Thoughts?

Just a point, and I don't know how valid this is for PFS, could you not drop Divine Warrior for Sword Scion (Longsword). I suppose it depends on what you want more, a conditional +1 to hit or an even more conditional +1 to damage.

Sword Scion is a Kingmaker campaign trait and thus not PFS-legal.

Unless you're talking about a different Sword Scion... but if there is another Sword Scion, I've not heard of it. :)

Grand Lodge

Sword Scion is not legal for PFS.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

So, here is the final build:

PFS Human Iomedae Cleric:
Renka Snowmane
Female human (Kellid) cleric (crusader) of Iomedae 1
LN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 17 (1d8+9)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 35 ft. (25 ft. in armor)
Melee longsword +5 (1d8+4/19-20)
Ranged sling +1 (1d4+4)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 3/day (DC 10, 1d6)
Cleric (Crusader) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +3)
. . 1st—divine favor, magic weapon[D]
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, light
. . D Domain spell; Domain War (Tactics subdomain)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats Improved Initiative, Tribal Scars, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Traits divine warrior, fate's favored
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 to jump), Knowledge (religion) +2, Spellcraft +2
Languages Common, Hallit
SQ seize the initiative
Combat Gear oil (4); Other Gear four mirror armor, longsword, sling with 10 sling bullets, candle (10), flint and steel, holy text, manacles, masterwork backpack, mess kit, silk rope (50 ft.), soap, spell component pouch, tindertwig (4), torch (5), trail rations (5), waterskin, wooden holy symbol of Iomedae, 4 sp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Cleric (Crusader) Domain (Tactics)
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (3/day, DC 10) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Divine Warrior From an early age, you were trained by a militaristic order of clerics. You are devoted both to the teachings of Iomedae and to spreading those teachings by force. Whenever you cast a divine spell that affects any melee weapons, choose one of those w
Fate's Favored Increase luck bonuses by 1.
Seize the Initiative (5/day) (Su) An ally within 30' may take the better of 2d20 for initiative.

Opinions?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, here is the final build:

** spoiler omitted **...

Looks good mate! Curious if you've considered Variant Channeling? You'll keep all the bonus' for abilities like Channeling Force and since you need a Standard Action to drop buffs you could grab Quick Channel to drop a Move Action to benefit both you and your team mates.

Again I'm not certain if Variant Channeling is PFS legal but it feels like at Level 5 you could:

Cast a buff as a Standard Action ala' Spells
Drop an AoE buff as a Move Action ala' Quick Channel, for example Valor would grant a +2 Channel buff to AC and To-Hit on the Charge as well as providing a second chance at running over any Fear Effects with the aforementioned +2 Channel buff to the roll.
Prepare Channeling Force as a Swift Action
5ft step to get ready for the charge next turn.


I think trying to go channel based is a pretty bad idea if you want to be a battle cleric. There is no way you can afford the stats for melee AND have a decent channel DC


CWheezy wrote:
I think trying to go channel based is a pretty bad idea if you want to be a battle cleric. There is no way you can afford the stats for melee AND have a decent channel DC

I'd argue it's completely dependent on how you use Channel, if you use it as nothing more than a battery for certain feats, ala' Bless Equipment/Channeling Force, and a spot Heal/Buff in the form of Variant Channeling then none of that requires a DC check and all of it boosts the capabilities of a Battle Cleric while also providing some easy access support for the rest of the party.

Grand Lodge

Variant Channeling is PFS legal. It's just, weird to get right which variant channeling, is legal for which god.

This build is a bit feat starved, so it would be hard to add channel focused feats.

Bless Equipment seems neat, as does Align Equipment.

Not sure how, or when, I would sneak them in.

Disciple of the Sword, and Power Attack will be a priority.

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