How do you explain the Brawler's magic knuckles?


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Eltacolibre wrote:
The same way I explain Bard magic...it just happens.

Forget magic knuckles. Regardless of how they do it, what the Brawlers do, is just-plain-cool. The Bard, IMO, is just-plain-silly. I've made peace with the fact they are going nowhere- they are an iconic part of the game. But, as a DM, I make sure they are the first class that get's smacked. I know I'm being a dick...but, bad poetry, and dancing during combat deserves a bloody nose.

I have a hunch, that most players that consider the bard, will be more interested in the Unchained Rouge, Jack-of-all-trades, without the pontificating, when they should be focusing on fighting.

This is 100% "IMO"- anyone who enjoys the Bard, should keep on rocking that class.

EDIT: The post I was replying to is deleted.
I hope my reply was not the reason. The stuff I post, needs to be taken with a grain-of-salt. Posting comments is supposed to be fun- I hate it when posters are mean, especially if it's me!

Grand Lodge

At a certain level, PCs of any class are basically superhuman.


Joe Hex wrote:
Eltacolibre wrote:
The same way I explain Bard magic...it just happens.

Forget magic knuckles. Regardless of how they do it, what the Brawlers do, is just-plain-cool. The Bard, IMO, is just-plain-silly. I've made peace with the fact they are going nowhere- they are an iconic part of the game. But, as a DM, I make sure they are the first class that get's smacked. I know I'm being a dick...but, bad poetry, and dancing during combat deserves a bloody nose.

But nothing about the class requires any of that.


FYI, the brawler isn't alone. The totem guide archetype for animal companions can bite ghosts as an (ex) ability.


Mel.kiador wrote:
FYI, the brawler isn't alone. The totem guide archetype for animal companions can bite ghosts as an (ex) ability.

That is "extraordinary", BIMO, that feels like a supernatural ability. I still think it's kick-ass, regardless.

Grand Lodge

Heck, even the Unarmed Fighter can punch with Flaming Fists, or the common Fighter, can hide in the bright sunshine of the day, in the middle of a field, with no cover, or concealment.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Errant Mercenary wrote:
insaneogeddon wrote:
Or you could just soak your fists in the average alchemists urine ..
Bottle it and sell it. High for DAYS guaranteed.

Unfortunately the half-life is pretty short.

Grand Lodge

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Try to understand... the brawler is a magic man...

OP and bardic offshoot addressed in one link.


Joe Hex wrote:
I'm in serious danger of becoming the biggest buzzkill that set word on the forums... But, the love of Chuck Norris is a bigger mystery to me than the Brawler's knuckles. Underneath Norris' carefully cultivated public persona, the guy seem like a complete homophobic tool.

Nah, you're right, Norris is given a lot more credit than he deserves. I prefer Alex Armstrong for my "manliest of all men" jokes.

This particular brand of bypassing damage reduction has been passed down the Armstrong family line for GENERATIONS!


Arachnofiend wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
I'm in serious danger of becoming the biggest buzzkill that set word on the forums... But, the love of Chuck Norris is a bigger mystery to me than the Brawler's knuckles. Underneath Norris' carefully cultivated public persona, the guy seem like a complete homophobic tool.

Nah, you're right, Norris is given a lot more credit than he deserves. I prefer Alex Armstrong for my "manliest of all men" jokes.

This particular brand of bypassing damage reduction has been passed down the Armstrong family line for GENERATIONS!

Alex Armstrong, is indeed awesome, and that crazy curl coming off his forehead only accentuates the point...BUT...

If we are going to have a "serious" discussion of pop-culture icons, I'm going to have to go with Lucy Lawless. Xena kicks the Texas Ranger butt into 1990's dirt in a proper fight! :)

I grew up on Xena, I still love Xena, and she makes me very nostalgic for my youth, and the 90's. That was really the only time in television, that a show that bonkers and fun, would make it on the air.
Bless Xena. The true nerds miss you...

Grand Lodge

Duncan MacLeod whoops Xena, to the soundtrack of Queen.

Mic drop.

Liberty's Edge

Rynjin wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Eltacolibre wrote:
The same way I explain Bard magic...it just happens.

Forget magic knuckles. Regardless of how they do it, what the Brawlers do, is just-plain-cool. The Bard, IMO, is just-plain-silly. I've made peace with the fact they are going nowhere- they are an iconic part of the game. But, as a DM, I make sure they are the first class that get's smacked. I know I'm being a dick...but, bad poetry, and dancing during combat deserves a bloody nose.

But nothing about the class requires any of that.

Yeah, battlefield oration, Spiderman-style mocking the opposition, and war-chants are all quite a bit more common IME than anything in the vein of 'bad poetry'.


"simple" attack that bypasses DR.

Granted that the guy showing / teaching it would be a monk, the guy learning it isn't a monk, so maybe it's something closer to that =)


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Eltacolibre wrote:
The same way I explain Bard magic...it just happens.

Forget magic knuckles. Regardless of how they do it, what the Brawlers do, is just-plain-cool. The Bard, IMO, is just-plain-silly. I've made peace with the fact they are going nowhere- they are an iconic part of the game. But, as a DM, I make sure they are the first class that get's smacked. I know I'm being a dick...but, bad poetry, and dancing during combat deserves a bloody nose.

But nothing about the class requires any of that.
Yeah, battlefield oration, Spiderman-style mocking the opposition, and war-chants are all quite a bit more common IME than anything in the vein of 'bad poetry'.

But at what point would the characters not even be paying attention to what the Bard is going on about? If a dragon is ready to eat your head, mocking and war-chants would not even register, and a Bard's performance is predicated on that.

I dunno, what the Bard does is completely valid, I just find the class jarring personally.


It's magic. It magically raises morale. With magic.


Joe Hex wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Eltacolibre wrote:
The same way I explain Bard magic...it just happens.

Forget magic knuckles. Regardless of how they do it, what the Brawlers do, is just-plain-cool. The Bard, IMO, is just-plain-silly. I've made peace with the fact they are going nowhere- they are an iconic part of the game. But, as a DM, I make sure they are the first class that get's smacked. I know I'm being a dick...but, bad poetry, and dancing during combat deserves a bloody nose.

But nothing about the class requires any of that.
Yeah, battlefield oration, Spiderman-style mocking the opposition, and war-chants are all quite a bit more common IME than anything in the vein of 'bad poetry'.

But at what point would the characters not even be paying attention to what the Bard is going on about? If a dragon is ready to eat your head, mocking and war-chants would not even register, and a Bard's performance is predicated on that.

I dunno, what the Bard does is completely valid, I just find the class jarring personally.

Since the bard is a competent combatant and spellcaster I dont see why he would not be getting attention. He actually use bardic performance and still do other stuff.

Also, since the "war chants" or whatever you wish to flavor them as are known to help his friends survive that is another reason to pay attention to him.

I can listen to this guy and live, or ignore him and possibly die. <---That choice is easy.


Joe Hex wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
I'm in serious danger of becoming the biggest buzzkill that set word on the forums... But, the love of Chuck Norris is a bigger mystery to me than the Brawler's knuckles. Underneath Norris' carefully cultivated public persona, the guy seem like a complete homophobic tool.

Nah, you're right, Norris is given a lot more credit than he deserves. I prefer Alex Armstrong for my "manliest of all men" jokes.

This particular brand of bypassing damage reduction has been passed down the Armstrong family line for GENERATIONS!

Alex Armstrong, is indeed awesome, and that crazy curl coming off his forehead only accentuates the point...BUT...

If we are going to have a "serious" discussion of pop-culture icons, I'm going to have to go with Lucy Lawless. Xena kicks the Texas Ranger butt into 1990's dirt in a proper fight! :)

I grew up on Xena, I still love Xena, and she makes me very nostalgic for my youth, and the 90's. That was really the only time in television, that a show that bonkers and fun, would make it on the air.
Bless Xena. The true nerds miss you...

The problem with those people is that they are fictional. Chuck Norris is a real life guy who even in his advanced years could still kick the butts of most of the posters here. I guess if you wanted a modern example, then Jason David Frank. But he's nowhere as famous as the Norris.

Grand Lodge

Are we not comparing Pathfinder PCs to fictional characters?

I figured, you know, with them being fictional and all, it was fair to do so.


Chuck Norris actually was a world karate champion. He was not just a "movie martial artist". <---I think that is one reason why he was so popular in him prime.

With that aside other than the time the corny chuck norris jokes were always being told I have not really heard much about him.


He knows if he hits the werewolf on the chin just right he can rattle the brain and take'em down sort of thing.

You see it in comics all the time. Some huge unbeatable foe that seems immune to damage but the hero figures out just the right place to hit him and down he goes muttering "but....i'm....invin...cible?"

Grand Lodge

You know who beats up martial artists?

Guys who just don't give a f*ck.

Seriously.

The complete lack of self preservation, followed with unpredictable blows, has beaten many a martial artists.


Chuck Norris has never met a ghost he couldn't punch.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

You know who beats up martial artists?

Guys who just don't give a f*ck.

Seriously.

The complete lack of self preservation, followed with unpredictable blows, has beaten many a martial artists.

Source? The biggest problem is when someone can't feel pain for whatever reason. Then you may have to actually break something.


wraithstrike wrote:

Chuck Norris actually was a world karate champion. He was not just a "movie martial artist". <---I think that is one reason why he was so popular in him prime.

With that aside other than the time the corny chuck norris jokes were always being told I have not really heard much about him.

I honestly think Chuck Norris is more popular now, than when he was in his prime. If I recall the pop-culture of it all, he was considered so uncool for so long, that he eventually became cool, in some dumb, ironic, hipster way.

Grand Lodge

Melkiador wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

You know who beats up martial artists?

Guys who just don't give a f*ck.

Seriously.

The complete lack of self preservation, followed with unpredictable blows, has beaten many a martial artists.

Source? The biggest problem is when someone can't feel pain for whatever reason. Then you may have to actually break something.

Martial Artists, train with Martial Artists, and practice with reserved, and nonlethal methods.

Now, those who really get to the point where self preservation is of no concern, are not common. Not surprisingly, a number of them become criminals.

When Martial Artists usually deal with those who don't have martial arts training, they are usually people who still don't want to get too hurt.

Most of the time, Martial Artists need to hold back, to not severally injure, or even kill, their unskilled opponents.

These rare individuals, are something most Martial Artists don't focus on dealing with.

My old roommate, a Jujutsu teacher, actually was the first to tell me about this.

His advice, for his students, is when you meet such a person, you run.


Arachnofiend wrote:
If you ate four dozen raw eggs a day, you too would be able to punch through DR/magic.

"No one punches Dragons like Gaston!"


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blackbloodtroll wrote:

Martial Artists, train with Martial Artists, and practice with reserved, and nonlethal methods.

Now, those who really get to the point where self preservation is of no concern, are not common. Not surprisingly, a number of them become criminals.

When Martial Artists usually deal with those who don't have martial arts training, they are usually people who still don't want to get too hurt.

Most of the time, Martial Artists need to hold back, to not severally injure, or even kill, their unskilled opponents.

These rare individuals, are something most Martial Artists don't focus on dealing with.

My old roommate, a Jujutsu teacher, actually was the first to tell me about this.

His advice, for his students, is when you meet such a person, you run.

It's a more modern phenomenon as martial artists now train for sport rather than war. Though it was an known phenomenon in the past that was trained for. An example that sticks in my mind is of old English sword masters. To attain that rank they had to win 3 duels. One against an existing master, one against an other student, and one against some random drunk they pulled off the street. It was usually the drunk that was a problem. Though the point is that they did train to deal with the situation and couldn't be a master without overcoming that limitation.

Sovereign Court

I always just figured that Brawlers were like first generation monks.

The first fantasy unarmed combatants were actually brawlers, and monks later tried to replicate their art through dedication & training. That first brawler was just a badass mo'fo! Needless to say - while the monks were somewhat successful - it led to a significantly different result.

Sovereign Court

blackbloodtroll wrote:


Martial Artists, train with Martial Artists, and practice with reserved, and nonlethal methods.

It depends upon the martial art. I know that in American Kenpo - we're taught to avoid combat whenever possible, but if it comes to it you go all out and wipe the floor with the guy. Hard. (American Kenpo is generally known for fighting dirty. There's actually a subset which specializes in eye gouges.)


Mucronis wrote:

"simple" attack that bypasses DR.

Granted that the guy showing / teaching it would be a monk, the guy learning it isn't a monk, so maybe it's something closer to that =)

Is this the scene in Rurouni Kenshin where Anji, who is kind of an archetypal fantasy-style monk, teaches Sanosuke the Futae no Kiwami, which is a punch that is able to crush rocks through sheer manly force of will? That's a pretty good example, although I would stat Sano as a brawler personally.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Mucronis wrote:

"simple" attack that bypasses DR.

Granted that the guy showing / teaching it would be a monk, the guy learning it isn't a monk, so maybe it's something closer to that =)

Is this the scene in Rurouni Kenshin where Anji, who is kind of an archetypal fantasy-style monk, teaches Sanosuke the Futae no Kiwami, which is a punch that is able to crush rocks through sheer manly force of will? That's a pretty good example, although I would stat Sano as a brawler personally.

Yeah, that was what it was supposed to link to, and as I'm somewhat of a muppet, I forgot to actually check that my link was working.

Trying again.

And yes Paladin of Baha-who, I'd agree, Anji is a monk and sano is a brawler

Grand Lodge

My take was that they hit so hard, so fast that otherwise impenetrable defenses crumble beneath the force of the blow.

Like these guys.

Or these guys.

SM

Grand Lodge

Now, living with Martial Artists sort of changed my view of them.

1) There is no regulation on who can teach Martial Arts. Usually, fakes have to be called out by other teachers, and even then, it's about wrecking their reputation, as there is nothing they can do legally.

2) If you are a Martial Artist, and you get into a fight with say, a drunk guy, the Martial Artist is likely going to jail, along with the drunk guy. Prison, if they hurt them bad enough.

3) Most teach how to hold back a punch, as often as they teach to throw one. As noted above, prison sucks.

4) Yes. Joe Batsh*t can still possibly kick the crap out of your trained Martial Artist.

I have been there when this has happened. In fact, no training me, was the one to do it. I was blacked out during it, so I don't remember it whilst it was happening, but the result was a bruised fellow below me, as I came to on top of him.

He was a student of my roommate.

Luckily, the cops were not called.

My roommate's response was to look at his student, and say "this is not what I trained you to do. You didn't walk away."

Just to note, I usually get my @ss kicked in a fight, and have often.

Sometimes, it doesn't matter what your training is, you run away.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Everything is punch able if you try hard enough.

Community Manager

Removed some off-topical posts and their replies.


Dko wrote:
As much as I like a good Chuck Norris joke, why does no one ever mention good old Bruce Lee? Chuck is a great martial artist, Bruce is one of the best. :)

What about Sagata Sanshiro? Chuck Norris vs Sagata Sanshiro was one of the greatest things I've ever seen!

My point is that being bad-ass is plenty extraordinary do do what OP said.


Even though the damage resistance bypass never came up in our game last night, having a Brawler in the party proved nothing short of awesome.

I've been using the Witch Market in my campaign, and one particular vender only accepts human teeth as currency. So I threw in a minor homebrew, that whenever the Brawler lands a critical, knockout, or the target loses more the one-half their hit points in damage, in a single hit, the Brawler can choose to knock out 1d6 teeth. By the end of the night, our Brawler had enough teeth, to buy a butterfly brooch he's had his eye on. The brooch allows him to sprout his own pair of wings, and fly 20 feet a round (more like 'flutters'), with a flying quality of "poor", and he has to make a DC 15, dexterity check to land without falling prone.

The Exchange

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DR shouldn't be a prob. You just hit harder than some people swing swords. Effectively more damage.

If the class lets you punch ghosts, well I just assume the blood of thousands of people you have punched has made your fists more connected with death and the spiritual.


GeneticDrift wrote:


If the class lets you punch ghosts, well I just assume the blood of thousands of people you have punched has made your fists more connected with death and the spiritual.

These are the kind of ideas I love hearing, because they help give me crazy ideas.

I'm thinking, that by the time Occult Adventures is released this summer, my game's party will be reaching pretty high levels. One truly warped antagonist I'm currently planning ahead for, it an Occultist, who will try and cut off one of the Brawlers hands, to use as one of his Implements... By the time the Brawler get's to that point, those fists, with have seen enough history, that they would be infused with enough 'occult' energy to be used that way...

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