archer fighter Q:


Rules Questions


if i take greater X feat, like greater trip - and shoot at range of 30' for the ranged trip ability.
does the foe provoke AOO?

if so, imp snap shot sounds REALLY good here...


also, which will offer more ? (as feats are rare for archers) :
bull rush Vs trip (greater) :

trip : amazing de-buff but as levels grow will work less and less.
1) no flyers .
2) max size = large
3) many legs = CMD go away
4) no legs = immune

bull rush:
1) poor de-buff
2) may upset the party members if it prevent the next round full attacks.
3) CAN save lives by pushing off wounded and casters.
4) work well if party has a wall \ pit creator.
5) works well on most opponents, only stopper is size .


As an Archer Fighter you can use that ability at 30 feet with your bow and arrows, which does not mean that foes provoke at 30 feet from you.

With Improved Snap Shot foes provoke at 5+10 feet from you, no further distance.

When you trip someone, that person does not provoke, it is you who provokes from that person if you do not have Improved Trip feat. Same for Bull Rush. But someone who is out of reach can't take AoO against the offender, so makes not much sense to take the Improved X feats and the Improved Snap Shot if you are planning to trip and bull rush from distance.

Besides, when you say that feats are rare for archers, what do you mean? Archers, as fighters, is the class who gets most number of feats.


Numarak wrote:


As an Archer Fighter you can use that ability at 30 feet with your bow and arrows, which does not mean that foes provoke at 30 feet from you.
With Improved Snap Shot foes provoke at 5+10 feet from you, no further distance.

it does, if your have greater trip OR greater bull rush.

every maneuver will provoke.
you threat 15' with grt snap shot, but your allies will gain the free AOO from the opponent. right?

Numarak wrote:


When you trip someone, that person does not provoke, it is you who provokes from that person if you do not have Improved Trip feat. Same for Bull Rush.
Greater trip wrote:


Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.

so, if i shoot at you, and you fall, you provoke...

technicality, with greater bull rush, i can shoot to bull rush you > you provoke, i shoot AOO as bull rush arrow > you provoke .... until i am out of AOO or arrows...

Numarak wrote:


Besides, when you say that feats are rare for archers, what do you mean? Archers, as fighters, is the class who gets most number of feats.

well, archery with snap shot dont have much spares.


you do realise with greater bullrush you can't AoO if your the one rushing


Sorry, my bad, I did not understand the full meaning of your question.

It is my understanding that only you get the AoO, not your allies. As you quoted:

"Greater Trip:

You can make free attacks on foes that you knock down."

If your allies also got free attacks, it would have said you and your allies instead. Although I'm not 100% sure about this reading, because this is descriptive text, and on the benefit text, it says the tripped enemy Provokes, and does not say to whom. Again, my guess is that the tripped enemy provokes to the person who trip him. But I could be wrong.

Anyway, this will only work up to 15 feet range with Improved Snap Shot, and as Diminuendo pointed out, Greater Bull Rush does not grant you AoO of your target.


So to clarify, you should probably worry about this:

Quote:
Trick Shot (Ex): At 3rd level, an archer can choose one of the following combat maneuvers or actions: disarm, feint, or sunder. He can perform this action with a bow against any target within 30 feet, with a –4 penalty to his CMB. Every four levels beyond 3rd, he may choose an additional trick shot to learn. These maneuvers use up arrows as normal.

Way before you worry about this:

Quote:
At 11th level, he may also choose from the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, grapple, trip. A target grappled by an arrow can break free by destroying the archer's arrow (hardness 5, hit points 1, break DC 13) or with an Escape Artist or CMB check (against the archer's CMD –4). This ability replaces armor training 1, 2, 3, and 4.

You wont be able to use your bow to bull rush, grapple, or trip someone for a long time in the game. And by then you'll probably be able to decide on your which is the best.

Trip, however I will say is probably universally bad as that actually gives your target a bonus to AC against ranged attacks. While it might be occasionally valuable to trip someone in this way, it's probably not that good. Especially since at higher levels many things tend to have good CMD, and you're already taking a penalty.

However, it's also worth noting that the archetype does nothing to reduce the amount of time it takes to perform the maneuvers. So, bull rush and grapple versions would have to be done as standard actions, not in place of an attack (because there is no language to say that is allowed). Also feint (without feats) would have to be done as a standard action. Which means only one "attack" that round, and it wouldn't deal damage.

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