| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm so there.
I can see it now...
Kalindlara: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering mammoth; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."
Rest of Table: "Uhh..."
K: "NAT 20! SUCK IT, MOBY TUSK!"
RoT: "When did this game get weird? Anyone remember?"
|
Agree that it's undervalued; positioning is important, and more speed means you're more likely to be better positioned. Admit it, everyone hates a 20ft speed compared to a 30ft speed when they're a small race or in med/heavy armor.
At best, it helps when you need to run away, or if you have a rogue in the party, or if you need prep flanks in general, or it can set you up for a full attack in the next round if you're great in combat, and more.
At worst - it is a bit situational. Sometimes a 20ft speed and a 25ft speed make no difference, and maybe taking another feat would've had some other effect - but even Power Attack can be situational in the wrong circumstances.
How often does 5 feet make a difference?
More often than people think. 5 feet becomes 10 feet when you charge or double-move, and that actually can matter quite a bit sometimes. Fleet may kinda suck, but I stand by the five feet.
If you're concerned about movement speed, are you willing to take the Travel domain via any of its available options? How about a level in Barbarian or Bloodrager? Flame Oracle for Cinder Dance?
All you have to do to avoid a charge is turn around corners or get something between you and the pursuer, so the slow opponents may not have been at fault there. At least at first.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Agree that it's undervalued; positioning is important, and more speed means you're more likely to be better positioned. Admit it, everyone hates a 20ft speed compared to a 30ft speed when they're a small race or in med/heavy armor.
At best, it helps when you need to run away, or if you have a rogue in the party, or if you need prep flanks in general, or it can set you up for a full attack in the next round if you're great in combat, and more.
At worst - it is a bit situational. Sometimes a 20ft speed and a 25ft speed make no difference, and maybe taking another feat would've had some other effect - but even Power Attack can be situational in the wrong circumstances.
This feat does not work for medium armor and heavy armor, and another 5 feet is not likely going to matter that much with positioning in most combats. Normally the room is small enough that you can at least charge to get to the enemy. Even if it is better to move tactically it is likely to take 2 rounds to get into position no matter if you have 20 or 30 feet of movement.
If you have 30 feet of movement and you are in light or no armor then the extra 5 feet is not worth a feat, maybe a trait. If you are small and wearing light armor then you are likely an using a class that either does not need to be in melee combat too much or needs extra time setting up anyway.
This is more useful for medium to heavy armor types, and they can't even use the feat.
|
|
I've used a Sorceress with Fleet taken twice for a +10ft move, and it made a huge difference in reaching cover vs snipers(who didn't have held actions) and being able to move to aid others in combat while staying out of threatened squares. Very effective when your opponents are slow(20ft move) and are forced to double move to keep up with you while you single move and cast.The slow opponents were... not bright then.
They can match you on a charge, so 40' is not enough, once in melee range, to stay out even against heavy armor. If they never got into melee range but were still pursuing you after a round instead of seeking cover... then they deserved what they got.
You're talking about a very specific situation.
Be mindful that charge has steep restrictions - they need a straight line and no obstacles. Regular movement doesn't require that. If the sorceress was going around corners and using movement cleverly (even through her allies and its enemies), then it works as intended.
How often does 5 feet make a difference?More often than people think. 5 feet becomes 10 feet when you charge or double-move, and that actually can matter quite a bit sometimes. Fleet may kinda suck, but I stand by the five feet.
and if you use another feet for fleet you get 10-20, and then 15-30, and then the fighter is faster than the monk, WHAT IS HAPPENING!?
seriously though, the best use of fleet is for a support caster. when he just NEEDS to touch you in all the right places. otherwise, meh. not worth it.
|
|
This is more useful for medium to heavy armor types, and they can't even use the feat.
They can use it if they're wearing something like Elven Chain (even in core PFS).
This is more useful for medium to heavy armor types, and they can't even use the feat.They can use it if they're wearing something like Elven Chain (even in core PFS).
True, but that is treated like light armor just like mithral breastplate, and it cost 5150. Actually, they might as well just pick up mithral breastplate. I however would not recommend getting mithral armor just to use Fleet.
95% of the feats in creation can be useful at some point, but if their use rarely comes up then they are likely not worth taking. I am sure there have been times when it would have been nice to have another 5 or 10 feet, but it has not come up enough for me to give up 1 or 2 feats to make it happen. That is also how I think most people feel that are not supporting the feat feel.
PS: I understand that every game is not the same and if you(general statement) often find yourself in certain situations then pick it up, but I don't think it is a common occurrence or the feat would already be getting more attention.
I kind of want to play a caster who takes nothing but Fleet now. 60ft base at 11th level.
be a cleric with the travel domain.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oracle with Fire or Metal Mystery and proper revelation: +10ft
Bloodrager: +10ft
Barbarian: +10ft
Inquisitor or Cleric with the Travel Domain: +10ft
Monks and the like: +more feet
Honestly, if you're so concerned with 5ft of movement, consider playing one of the many options that move farther. We had a Rageprophet in one game zooming around rooms at 50ft a move (base 30, +10 Barbarian, +10 Cinderdance Revelation.) It's doable, makes for hilareous invisibility spotters (zoom, zoom, zoom, *bump* "They're right here!"), and has great battlefield control. However, spending the feat on it, not so much.
Let's consider the value of a feat. Even say we value move speed highly, 5ft for a non-combat feat is a steep price to pay.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It always helps to compare the cost of the feat to the cost of an item that provides the same.
Boots of striding and springing provide a +10 move speed bonus and a minor boost to jump checks. They cost 5500. This effectively provides 2 feats and a minor bonus but with less conditions than fleet (works even in heavy armor). The pricing for an item that gives +5 move speed would probably be in the region of 1250gp. Fleet is worse than that - lets price it at 750gp.
Losing a feat for 750gp of bonuses is atrocious.
Of course, if you already had as much speed as you could get from other sources, then fleet might very well be the best option. But do you really need fleet on top of a roughly 60ft speed.
I think move ment is great but considering all the ways you can get more than 5 more in move fleet does look kind of pale. Travel domain in more than 2 feats worth, so is a barbarian or bloodrager dip, boots of striding and jumping 2 feats =5500 gp, longstrider 2 feats and expeditious retreat(my magus used this Spell in most figths until fly came along) is 6 times the feat( but only for a short wile.
And then there is also the fact, that at some point fly is a thing, and somebody that have spend his feat on land movement May look silly.
|
Getting your speed very high I can imagine could be pretty good.
Your 5th level human barbarian with boots of springing and striding and a speed of 70ft is going to cause a few surprises to anyone who thinks they can use speed to their advantage, and he can also shoot up a 70ft wall or swim across a 70ft river in one round as well.
Richard
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I like Fleet. It's just never felt like it's worth a feat slot. I wish PF had some form of lesser and greater feats so things like Fleet and Skill Focus wouldn't have to compete with Power Attack and combat styles.
If only they had something that was supposed to be like half as powerful as a feat
If they did, Fleet would certainly be better suited to be there.
Getting your speed very high I can imagine could be pretty good.
Your 5th level human barbarian with boots of springing and striding and a speed of 70ft is going to cause a few surprises to anyone who thinks they can use speed to their advantage, and he can also shoot up a 70ft wall or swim across a 70ft river in one round as well.
Richard
They will be even more surprised when the guy who showed up out of nowhere is trying to kill them with a two handed weapon without powerattack.
Besides, the barbarian would have had a move speed of 50 with no feats set on fire. That is pretty fast as is. IIRC there are very few things with a land move speed above 50 (quicklings come to mind, and they have a *120ft* move speed IIRC). Most of them would be beasties which have to beat you to death in melee anyway, so movespeed isn't really a help here. Usually, stuff that can move really fast flies, and then your feats would have been far better spent on power attack, point blank shot, rapid shot and deadly aim.
|
|
Getting your speed very high I can imagine could be pretty good.
Your 5th level human barbarian with boots of springing and striding and a speed of 70ft is going to cause a few surprises to anyone who thinks they can use speed to their advantage, and he can also shoot up a 70ft wall or swim across a 70ft river in one round as well.
Richard
They will be even more surprised when the guy who showed up out of nowhere is trying to kill them with a two handed weapon without powerattack.
Besides, the barbarian would have had a move speed of 50 with no feats set on fire. That is pretty fast as is. IIRC there are very few things with a land move speed above 50 (quicklings come to mind, and they have a *120ft* move speed IIRC). Most of them would be beasties which have to beat you to death in melee anyway, so movespeed isn't really a help here. Usually, stuff that can move really fast flies, and then your feats would have been far better spent on power attack, point blank shot, rapid shot and deadly aim.
I guess so.
Possibly one Fleet - just to take your speed to 55?
That way you can outrun pretty much anything on 4 legs (let alone 2).
Richard
...I guess so.
Possibly one Fleet - just to take your speed to 55?
That way you can outrun pretty much anything on 4 legs (let alone 2).
Richard
The number of scenarios where the difference between 50ft and 55ft move speed matters are close to nil. With a 50ft move speed I would rather take dodge - at least that feat negates 1 in 20 swings at me.
Besides, later on things have fly speeds. 60ft+ is more or less about standard, and your feat does even less.
Contributor
|
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm so there.I can see it now...
Kalindlara: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering mammoth; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."
Rest of Table: "Uhh..."
K: "NAT 20! SUCK IT, MOBY TUSK!"
RoT: "When did this game get weird? Anyone remember?"
I can't favorite this enough. <3
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It always helps to compare the cost of the feat to the cost of an item that provides the same.
Boots of striding and springing provide a +10 move speed bonus and a minor boost to jump checks. They cost 5500. This effectively provides 2 feats and a minor bonus but with less conditions than fleet (works even in heavy armor). The pricing for an item that gives +5 move speed would probably be in the region of 1250gp. Fleet is worse than that - lets price it at 750gp.
Losing a feat for 750gp of bonuses is atrocious.
I agree with this. Its not that extra movement isnt valuable, its that the return on investment for fleet is so poor. Boots of striding/springing, someone casting haste, and any number of class features do it better. Most people, if they want speed, go with one of those.
Fleet just doesn't give you enough for anyone that has things they want out of their feats.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Could always go the old fashioned way to get more speed. Nothing says speed quite like mounted flight.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Could always go the old fashioned way to get more speed. Nothing says speed quite like mounted flight.
That sort of movement speed might come with it's own problems.
Fleet: all diagonal movement counts as 5 feet.
Are we playing Diablo I now?
Yeah, it's like, Fleet was already a bad investment in Core (a single level in Barbarian gives you double the benefit...and then some, not counting the Boots of Striding and Springing and such) but it's REALLY bad now, comparatively.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I always look at Fleet on my lightly armed characters, but can't recall having ever taken it, to be honest.
It would be more appropriate as a trait.
|
I'm so there.Kalindlara: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering mammoth; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."
Would it be towards thee I slither? hop? inchworm? how does a merfolk move on land? Is it up to the player?
|
Contributor
|
Would it be towards thee I slither? hop? inchworm? how does a merfolk move on land? Is it up to the player?I'm so there.Kalindlara: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering mammoth; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."
For a Strongtail mermaid, I always imagined a slithering motion - like a lamia matriarch, but with more fins. With Acrobatics, there could be more of a sidewinding motion. (Now I want to make a monk or brawler with Pummeling Charge for the ultimate tail slap.)
For those without... I imagined them dragging themselves along with their arms.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think in the long run this feat actually can make a difference.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly, 5 feet really don't matters, especially in long runs.
Actually, long runs are when an extra 5 feet on your movement speed matters the most.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pretty interesting Snake motion
I was trying to find a video of the kind of snake that moves straight, but couldn't.
Honestly, 5 feet really don't matters, especially in long runs.Actually, long runs are when an extra 5 feet on your movement speed matters the most.
Unfortunately, unless your goal is to outrun your companions when fleeing from a bear or something, you are usually limited to the speed of the slowest party member in your group.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Would it be towards thee I slither? hop? inchworm? how does a merfolk move on land? Is it up to the player?I'm so there.Kalindlara: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering mammoth; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."
TOWARDS MINE ENEMIES DOST I FLOP.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Would it be towards thee I slither? hop? inchworm? how does a merfolk move on land? Is it up to the player?I'm so there.Kalindlara: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering mammoth; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."
In this case, there was player/character confusion. For the PLAYER was rolling (dice) while the character was galumphing. Imagine two elephant seal males charging down the beach at one another... something like that motion. A thing of beauty, really.
If you're hopelessly aesthetically depraved.
|
I think it depends on the build.
If you have a scout sniper rogue elf with fleet-footed it can really come in handy.
Especially if you move 35 and shoot 1 arrow for sneak attack damage (As per RAW of scout), your enemy would have to spend two move actions to get to you. Sure they could charge you but let's say you have boots of striding and springing. Now you have 45. IT can make a difference during difficult terrain or getting behind something or someone. Now they can't charge. Even if they do charge they are still only doing one attack versus a full-attack.
I also used fleet-footed to jump a gap and again to get a jumping start on a climb. Made a huge difference in the situation I was in. It can be situational, but I think it is more build specific.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I like Fleet. It's just never felt like it's worth a feat slot. I wish PF had some form of lesser and greater feats so things like Fleet and Skill Focus wouldn't have to compete with Power Attack and combat styles.If only they had something that was supposed to be like half as powerful as a feat
If they did, Fleet would certainly be better suited to be there.
You mean traits? I think you mean traits..
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
You mean traits? I think you mean traits..I like Fleet. It's just never felt like it's worth a feat slot. I wish PF had some form of lesser and greater feats so things like Fleet and Skill Focus wouldn't have to compete with Power Attack and combat styles.If only they had something that was supposed to be like half as powerful as a feat
If they did, Fleet would certainly be better suited to be there.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think it depends on the build.
If you have a scout sniper rogue elf with fleet-footed it can really come in handy.
Especially if you move 35 and shoot 1 arrow for sneak attack damage (As per RAW of scout), your enemy would have to spend two move actions to get to you. Sure they could charge you but let's say you have boots of striding and springing. Now you have 45. IT can make a difference during difficult terrain or getting behind something or someone. Now they can't charge. Even if they do charge they are still only doing one attack versus a full-attack.
I also used fleet-footed to jump a gap and again to get a jumping start on a climb. Made a huge difference in the situation I was in. It can be situational, but I think it is more build specific.
Situational and build specific is different things. If there is cover your one shot run away archer is not gonna get his one shot and he Will be feat starved as a archer rogue. And 5 feet extra move Does nothing for jumping. And in case you are talking about fleet footet alternate racial trait, and not the fleet feat like others are it wont help your rogue archer with anything but initiative( that is good but not relevant for this talk)
Edit: sorry i see you have both fleet and fleet footet i still dont see how fleet makes a difference.