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Why does it take longer for the Assassin Prestige Class to do the death attack (3 round study) compared to the ninja and slayer talent assassinate (1 round study). Shouldn't assassins due to their namesake be better at what they do?
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Progression of Power:
As more material for Pathfinder is written, is has to get slightly stronger over time to keep relevant and interesting.
However, even if they (Assassin prestige class, Ninja, and Slayer) were all written at the same time, the Assassin gains Death attack at lvl 6 earliest, while Ninja/Slayer get it at 10th. Earlier learned, for a weaker overall ability.
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Any floozy with 2 skill ranks per level can get into assassin by 6th level.
You gotta train better and harder to get the faster killing ability.
But still a 20th level assassin character (rogue 10 assassin 10) would still take 3 rounds of study to do the death attack compared to a 20th level slayer or ninja which would do it in 1 round respectively.
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While Progression of Power is a thing (also known as "Power Creep") it's not only power creep: it's also making a concept significantly more viable, and adjusting it for players' needs, rather than an NPC's needs.
While the Assassin PrC existed long before (all the way back in the days of 3rd*), it was never intended as a PC class. The fact that it was dependent exclusively on Evil characters, and you had to kill someone for no other reason than to become an assassin is relative proof of that. Further, it wasn't very powerful for either PC base classes or Prestige classes - it was MAD (charisma for skills and subtlety; intelligence for skills, DCs, and spells; and dexterity for everything else).
Instead, it was meant to make a dangerous, deadly NPC - either an NPC that the heroes were tracking (after it had used its skills on others), or that had been hired to take out (one or more of) the PCs. In that light, the Assassin makes a lot of sense: it's evil-only, it takes three rounds, and it can paralyze instead of kill. It's also a strict upgrade from the NPC classes, and the one most likely to enter it - an expert - generally has similar ability leanings anyway. The GM suddenly has an exceedingly powerful and useful tool at their disposal for story-telling, either to instantly end a PC who failed all of their checks or was somehow over-reaching, or simply to introduce a dangerous and canny foe that somehow keeps escaping them. Perhaps the Assassin plans on killing them, but decides, for whatever reason, to let the character live at the last moment, but paralyzes them in order to escape or tell them something. Either way, the PC target gets three rounds to respond to the threat.
Regardless, the Assassin has never worked well as a party-member, unless the party was composed of assassins. As an example, I'm in a 3.5 game right now. I'm playing a creature called a Marrulurk, which automatically gains an Assassin's death attack. Guess how many times I've gotten the chance to use it! That's right: ZERO! Woo~! Between a desire not to split the party, groups of enemies, and a players' tendencies to ensure rapid head-on confrontations... it's not a good ability for the vast majority of games.
Beyond that, when making Pathfinder as its own system, Paizo made some design choices - both really cool and flavorful, but also unfortunately weakening - that greatly nerfed the power of the Assassin. Most notably, the Assassin lost all of its spellcasting, and gained only weirdly situational abilities in their stead, all of which required Death Attack in the first place.
That said, I want to point something out: Swift Death is an assassin ability gained at 9th level, while Quiet Death (a chance to make sure nobody notices) is gained at 6th level. These two abilities allow an assassin to get in, kill their target, and get out before anyone notices. While it's useful once per day, that's usually all the Death Attacks an Assassin will get in a day... especially if they're an NPC. A very convenient thing for GMs.
Conversely, Master Tricks: Assassinate is usable once per day as well... though it's once per day per target. This is much more of a "PC-style" ability than the other. It also takes much more time for the PC to set up than the Swift Death, and unlike the assassin, they have no way to hide it, meaning they're much more likely to get into an exciting fight or chase sequence or something. This is definitely more of a PC-style thing. (Of course, the assassin is also several levels higher than the PC gaining a similar ability... but oh, well.)
Anyway, that's my thoughts - I've always wanted the Assassin and Death Attack to work as a player... but I've never been able to do so. Still, pretty nifty.
* Yes, yes, it existed before that - much before - but it wasn't a PrC, and that was two whole systems ago! :D
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The assassin PrC sucks at its job, even if the slayer and rogue do not exist. There are a few threads that go into detail on that topic.
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The assassin PrC sucks at its job, even if the slayer and rogue do not exist. There are a few threads that go into detail on that topic.
It's like Tacticslion said; it's only usable as an NPC as an actual assassin, and not as an adventurer. (And like you said, still worse at it than other classes.)
The funny thing is that if I were to actually make an NPC with the Assassin PrC and wanted to maximize its effectiveness I'd use wizard as an entry class. Maxed Int for Death Attack and wizard, with spells to provide great assistance for carrying out assassinations.
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The assassin PrC sucks at its job, even if the slayer and rogue do not exist. There are a few threads that go into detail on that topic.It's like Tacticslion said; it's only usable as an NPC as an actual assassin, and not as an adventurer. (And like you said, still worse at it than other classes.)
The funny thing is that if I were to actually make an NPC with the Assassin PrC and wanted to maximize its effectiveness I'd use wizard as an entry class. Maxed Int for Death Attack and wizard, with spells to provide great assistance for carrying out assassinations.
I agree with Tacticslion. I always felt certain PrC's and feats were for GM's in 3.x/PF.
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This again?
I am sure it wont be the last time. :)
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This again?I am sure it wont be the last time. :)
Are you saying that some topics repeatedly crop up on these boards?
I don't know why you are saying that.
There must be a disparity between your experiences and mine. Are you sure you aren't being roguish and trying to trick me? I almost fell for it too.
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The Assassin in previous editions (and in 4th, oddly enough) were overpowered PC classes that threw balance with the other classes out the window. Even the "kits" in second edition were over the top. The PrC in 3.x was in line with that somewhat, but most of the time, it was considered an NPC class, being of Evil alignment and having decidedly unheroic background and motivations.
To compare it's overall effectiveness to some of the new PF classes is much like comparing a 5 year old car to the new model. Most likely, the designers didn't have the PrC in mind (or any of them, to be honest) when balancing the powers of the newer classes. Since the PrC is a NPC class anyway, it really doesn't matter all that much.
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This again?I am sure it wont be the last time. :)Are you saying that some topics repeatedly crop up on these boards?
I don't know why you are saying that.
There must be a disparity between your experiences and mine. Are you sure you aren't being roguish and trying to trick me? I almost fell for it too.