I've been challenged to pvp duel and need some min / maxing advice.


Advice


Ok the only stipulation I have for this character is that he has to be a pure swashbuckler. Absolutely no multi classing. The character will be tenth level with 750,000 gold to spend. I need advice on everything, race, traits, feats, and gear. The only thing I know about my opponent is that he is centered around the aldori sword lord PrC, and is pure martial. Also all advice must be PFS legal.


With 750k to spend for a 10th level character, I wouldn't worry too much about race, traits or feats, as anything within reason will pale in importance to what gear the character wears.

Sovereign Court

750 000 gp? are you sure? its not a typo?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Make a pure grappler with all your feats, then waste 40 rounds squeezing him to death as he tries to use a sword in a grapple.

The end.

Sovereign Court

with 750 000 gp cavall, he will most likely have a ring of freedom of movement...unless this item is banned in PFS.


I don't know about that. Frankly I doubt any single duelist who is making a character against a swashbuckler is expecting that and would make his equipment tailored to be hit by a sword.

In fact looking at the sword lord you'd negate about 60% of his advantages by just not attacking his AC.


Buy a Goz mask and an eversmoking bottle. Done.


So, If he is a sword lord, and you really have that much gold, get your dex and charisma as high as you can. Get you initiative as high as you can with dex, traits, and improved initiative. Use skill focus and magic aptitude to max your UMD. A trait that makes it a class skill would also be good.

10 ranks
3 class skill
4 magic aptitude
6 skill focus
3 Circlet of persuasion
4 standard charisma score
3 headband of charisma

33 total score. Because rolling 1 is not an automatic failure on skill checks, that is an automatic 7th level sorcerer scroll. If you can up it more ways that I can't come up with off the top of my head, then you get higher level scrolls. The point is target his will save. No one expects the swashbuckler to attack the will save.

Not saying it's the best idea, but it is thinking outside the box.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That had better be a typo. 75k is smack in the middle of the level 10 WBL range, while 750k is in the level 19 range.


Eltacolibre wrote:
with 750 000 gp cavall, he will most likely have a ring of freedom of movement...unless this item is banned in PFS.

I am 100% this is not for PFS. For the record, a Ring of Freedom of Movement isn't banned in PFS either. It'll likely take half of your available wealth from levels 1-12 though.


You could gamble on a successful UMD of a scroll of Winds of Vengeance. Or not gamble and grab overland flight.

Some Powerful Spells: Suffocation (with Extended or Persistent metamagic, maybe), Repel Metal or Stone followed with various save-or-loses (I recommend suffocation), Prediction of Failure, a limited wish scroll used to Geas/Quest him, Power Word Blind/Stun/Kill, Maze, etc.

EDIT: Actually - buy items and take feats to boost initiative into the stratosphere. Buy a scroll of Extended Power Word Stun (3825 GP) and fire it off in the first round. A Goz Mask (8000 GP) and an Eversmoking Bottle, combined with a Toothpick of Pyrotechnics (400 GP) will guarantee you survive. When he's stunned, you take his dropped sword and then beat him to death. Close with a scroll of Power Word Kill (3825 GP)

Sovereign Court

Tsriel wrote:
Eltacolibre wrote:
with 750 000 gp cavall, he will most likely have a ring of freedom of movement...unless this item is banned in PFS.
I am 100% this is not for PFS. For the record, a Ring of Freedom of Movement isn't banned in PFS either. It'll likely take half of your available wealth from levels 1-12 though.

mostly him mentioning this:

Quote:


Also all advice must be PFS legal.

Which I guess is the guideline their duel.


Pick human or half elf for race. Prioritize your strength bonus over your dex. For your human bonus feat(if half elf use alternate racial for exotic weapon proficiency) feat, pick up sword breaker dagger proficiency.

The swordbreaker gives a +6 to disarm and sunder attempts against bladed weapons, and adds its enhancement bonus to such attempts. TO that end buy a +5 dueling transformative adamantine swordbreaker. that should cost 77,010 gold.

Also take mark twain007's advice about grabbing all the things to boost use magic device.

you should have 8 feats, 1 from your race which is already accounted for, two swashbuckler feats, and 5 normal level up feats, 2 of which are being used to boost umd. For UMD items, buy a one or two scrolls of mage's disjunction. It will disenchant a lot of his gear. if his sword fails its will save, it will be a mundane masterwork sword and you can destroy it with a sunder that does at least 5 damage (assuming he isn't using an adamantine weapon as well, your weapon will ignore the hardness of any weapon with a hardness of less than 20) IF he is using a special material with more hit points it may take slightly more damage but should be doable in one attack.

TO increase your chances, weapon focus swordbreaker, combat expertise, improved sunder, greater sunder, and improved disarm should be your 5 remaining feats.

Even if you fail to dispel his sword's magic, if he is not using a locked gauntlet, disarm is enough to cause him trouble.

Someone up thread recommended a goz mask, grab that and an ever-smoking bottle, and a scroll of greater invisibility and one more of blacklight. between those 3 things, you can basically guaranty that he will be unable to see your character. make sure you have a means of flight also. a scroll of slow would also not be bad.

for traits, if you have more than 1, grab one for increased initiative to increase your chance of going first.

after you disarm him and retrieve his weapon, or sunder his weapon, you can use the transformative weapon property to turn your weapon into one that benefits from precise strike.

also make sure to grab a ring of freedom of movement.

you can also spend a lot of skill ranks on handle animal, and then buy a whole lot of stirges with the defending trick. stirges are 20 gold a piece and with the right tricks, will automatically attack any target that attacks you.

you can also pack an a scroll of maze or an otherworldly kimono to maze him, and get a couple of free rounds to get set up, since odds are he wont have a high int.


Buy a scroll of form of a dragon 3 and sit on him.


Change the rules he set that monetary limit for a reason. Accept the challenge with half the starting coin


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

buy 30 thousand ioun stones and use them as an impenetrable force field.


Cavall wrote:

Make a pure grappler with all your feats, then waste 40 rounds squeezing him to death as he tries to use a sword in a grapple.

The end.

It won't take 40 rounds. With the Rapid Grappler Feat, you can Grapple as a Swift Action. So,

You initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action
You Pin as a Move Action (Greater Grapple)
You Tie Up your opponent as a Swift Action.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Cavall wrote:

Make a pure grappler with all your feats, then waste 40 rounds squeezing him to death as he tries to use a sword in a grapple.

The end.

It won't take 40 rounds. With the Rapid Grappler Feat, you can Grapple as a Swift Action. So,

You initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action
You Pin as a Move Action (Greater Grapple)
You Tie Up your opponent as a Swift Action.

the text in greater grapple seems to suggest that is works in rounds where you maintain your grapple as a standart action. Not in rounds where you initiatet your grapple.

And to the OP. What is the reason for this duel?


Go-Go-Gadget rings of 3 wishes.

Wish yourself to the other side of the planet. Keep wishing your opponent into the negative energy plane until he fails his save. Put as much as you can into boosting your initiative so you go first.

For even more unfair BS try having a sky high UMD and UMDing a scroll of time stop with a Maximize metamagic gem built in.
First round: Disintegrate the ground underneath him with a disintegrate scroll.
Second round: Drop a Prismatic Sphere in the hole that he is suspended over.
Rounds 3 through 5: I don't know. Analyze dweomer I guess, and try to counter anything genuinely surprising that he is pulling.

This might seem like cheating but remember one thing.

Only cheaters prosper.

Seriously though, change the wealth for this. It is stupid.

In fact, set rules on what is allowed for items. The trick I did above with time stop costs under 15K to pull, and is a no-save you lose to almost anything that isn't initially flying. There are probably good ways of dealing with fliers as well (I imagine Wish for Simulacrum for *something* will deal with it). Even just spamming Irresistable Dances until he fails his save and then you toss a couple of Suffocates at him is pretty much a guarenteed win.

EDIT: I am making this way too complicated. UMD a scroll of limited wish duplicating Geas. You win. Congratulations. Go make your new slave buy you a cold one to celebrate.


@OP (Jack of Nothing): should it be 75k or 750k? That's super important - you can't get a definite answer until you tell us.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eltacolibre wrote:
with 750 000 gp cavall, he will most likely have a ring of freedom of movement...unless this item is banned in PFS.

Since we're not talking about PFS play, that's pretty much irrelevant.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:
Since we're not talking about PFS play, that's pretty much irrelevant.

Read the OP.

Jack of Nothing wrote:
Also all advice must be PFS legal.


Cap. Darling wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Cavall wrote:

Make a pure grappler with all your feats, then waste 40 rounds squeezing him to death as he tries to use a sword in a grapple.

The end.

It won't take 40 rounds. With the Rapid Grappler Feat, you can Grapple as a Swift Action. So,

You initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action
You Pin as a Move Action (Greater Grapple)
You Tie Up your opponent as a Swift Action.

the text in greater grapple seems to suggest that is works in rounds where you maintain your grapple as a standart action. Not in rounds where you initiatet your grapple.

And to the OP. What is the reason for this duel?

I don't see how it seems to suggest that. It just says that once you have grappled a creature, maintaining a grapple is a move action. If you still have your Move Action left after you Initiate a Grapple, as a Standard Action, there is no reason why you can't roll to Maintain the Grapple and achieve one those maintain-a-grapple effects: Damage, Pin, Move, Tie Up (once you have achieved the Pin). It specifically says the feat allow you to make 2 checks/round.

Of course, you usually don't have your Move Action left to you: usually, you Move up to your opponent and Initiate your Grapple, then you're done and have to wait until next turn to finish him off.

I don't want to belabor the point: the Swashbuckling OP almost certainly doesn't want a Grapple build. When people dream of being in a Robin Hood movie, they don't usually dream of being Friar Tuck.


Cap. Darling wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Cavall wrote:

Make a pure grappler with all your feats, then waste 40 rounds squeezing him to death as he tries to use a sword in a grapple.

The end.

It won't take 40 rounds. With the Rapid Grappler Feat, you can Grapple as a Swift Action. So,

You initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action
You Pin as a Move Action (Greater Grapple)
You Tie Up your opponent as a Swift Action.

the text in greater grapple seems to suggest that is works in rounds where you maintain your grapple as a standart action. Not in rounds where you initiatet your grapple.

And to the OP. What is the reason for this duel?

OMG so sorry, that was a typo! only 75,000 gold!

Well the challenge was issued when my PFS group was making small talk before the game started and I made the claim that I felt a swashbuckler could take any fighter. Turns out one of the dudes has a martial character specifically tailored for one on one duels and wanted me to make a swashbuckler to take on his character. However, my statement was slightly misunderstood as I could've worded it better, I meant a straight swashbuckler could take any straight fighter,but I decided to take the challenge anyway.


Halfling with adabtable luck alternate racial trait and Fates favored trait. Scimitar and slashing grace, weapon focus, weapon spec, greater weapon focus, toughness, combat reflexes and Dodge. Would be my thinking Best stat in dex, con, cha, str=wis and dump int to the max.
Alternatly make a flying blade and take flere with every feat and just keep throwing and running:)

Silver Crusade

1. Buy a ring of 3 wishes

2. Take Improved initiative 5 times

3. You win.


Tin Foil Yamakah wrote:

1. Buy a ring of 3 wishes

2. Take Improved initiative 5 times

3. You win.

He only have 75000 and improved i initiative dosent stack:(


Are archetypes allowed, or is it base Swashbuckler only? Do you at least know the race of your opponent? If you know he will be medium, you could build against that as a halfling.


The Swordlord is based around using intimidate. It'd be nice if you could find a way to just shut that down. I'm having trouble finding good options though.


Cap. Darling wrote:

Halfling with adabtable luck alternate racial trait and Fates favored trait. Scimitar and slashing grace, weapon focus, weapon spec, greater weapon focus, toughness, combat reflexes and Dodge. Would be my thinking Best stat in dex, con, cha, str=wis and dump int to the max.

Alternatly make a flying blade and take flere with every feat and just keep throwing and running:)

And spend the extra gold on adamantine scimitar and locked gauntlet in case he is a disarm, sunder specialist. And see if you Can find room for blade of mercy and enforcer.


I'm really concerned that this guy's build is focused around abusing demoralize somehow, perhaps legally or perhaps not. So, no matter what you build it may not matter unless you can somehow counter it.


Silence, and/or impaired vision. Demoralize states that the opponent must be able to clearly see and hear you.


I just learned a new trick inspired by Darksol the Painbringer. It's quite an aromatic bit of cheese used the way I am about to describe, but in this peculiar case of PC on PC violence, it should work just fine. In other cases, it's still a neat trick.

Take the Quickdraw Feat. Get a Quickdraw Throwing Shield. Acquire a Blinkback Belt (5000gp Wondrous Itam).

A Throwing Shield is Thrown as a Free Action.

Taken from a Blinkback Belt, it returns instantly to the belt after the attack is resolved.

A Quickdraw Shield can be drawn as a Free Action if you have the Quickdraw Feat.

Throw the shield as a Free Action again...

So what we have here is an infinite Free Action Attacking loop with no limits on how many times you can do it until your opponent drops.

The problem here is that a DM is encouraged in the description of Free Actions to impose his own limits on how many Free Actions a player may take in a single round, and this is exactly the sort of thing that a DM should rein in.

But, this isn't a normal gaming situation. This is a silly PVP duel, and your DM may just let it ride this time.

I was envisioning this as a way a PC might benefit from a shield and make a 2 weapon attack in the same round. Say you have your off-hand weapon on a wrist strap or you are using 2 Claws. Throw the shield as a Free Action, recover your main-gauche as a Swift Action, make your Full Attack, drop your weapon on its wrist strap, then re-draw your shield as a Free Action. It seems like a nifty way to get an extra little attack, enjoy 2 weapon fighting, and keep your AC up all at the same time. 3 Free Actions in a round isn't very many.

Also, in unusual situations like this, you might be able to get away with a ridiculous infinite attack loop. The DM might allow you to do that anyway in certain other situations as his own plot device, maybe to get you out of an encounter that was tougher than he intended, maybe you as a plot device you are inspired for 1 combat by a nymph's or succubus's kiss.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Silence, and/or impaired vision. Demoralize states that the opponent must be able to clearly see and hear you.

I'm quite fond of Dirty Tricks, make your opponent Blind and/or Deaf. Works great in conjunction with Sneak Attack Damage.

Another thing I like to do is play a Half Orc or something. Take the Keen Scent and Blind Fighting feats. Then acquire an Eversmoking Bottle...


Are Androids Pathfinder society legal?
They could shut down his Intimidate stuff quite fine.

Honestly I wouldn't rely on buggy rules or special items that much. Just build a min maxed swashbuckler and see how it plays out.
If he fights you straight on, you should be able to beat him. If he uses some kind of broken trick/weird gear, than he isn't relying on being a fighter anyway.


Melkiador wrote:
The Swordlord is based around using intimidate. It'd be nice if you could find a way to just shut that down. I'm having trouble finding good options though.

Are you the OP on another account? It gets confusing if you use different accounts in a conversation.


Melkiador is not me. Just saying. :)

I was planning on a locked gauntlet to avoid disarm, plus the adamantine weapon could be helpful for sunder unless his weapon is adamantine? Idk not familiar with high level play.

Was thinking of a katana for weapon choice?

I'm also unsure of the rules for demoralize, how do I build to combat it?

Liberty's Edge

UMD a scroll of greater heroism, it grants immunity to fear effects and on account of the clarification in a recent FAQ, it would make you immune to demoralize aspects of intimidate.


Fomsie wrote:
UMD a scroll of greater heroism, it grants immunity to fear effects and on account of the clarification in a recent FAQ, it would make you immune to demoralize aspects of intimidate.

All that should be doable. I'm unsure however if that would be frowned upon, I will get some clarification on any rules my opponent would like to put in place in regards to what I'm allowed to do. I won't mention anything specific but I don't want to go about this in a way he feels is unfair as his character was made by going through society games, mine is simply made to thwart him so that is already a little unfair. :/

Liberty's Edge

A scroll is legal in society games, so there should not be a problem. The Use Magic Device skill is also legal.


I think the OP was referring to building a character that specifically targets the other player's weaknesses, and defends against the other player's strengths.

It's a little unfair if the other person has a general PFS build, even if that build is optimized, instead of an anti-swashbuckler build.


Get a Blue Scarf Swordmaster's Flair.
Use the Lunge Feat.
Attack from 15 ft away.
When he moves in, use Dodging Panache to move 5ft back and possibly block his attack (parry if you have to).
5ft step back on your turn and continue to full attack.
Rinse and Repeat.

With the above, he should only be getting 1 attack on you every round, while you get 2 (3 with Boots of Speed, for Haste). If you've maximized your DEX and CHA, and have Dex to Damage, then you should be doing decent damage each turn while he struggles to hit you at all. If you wanted, you could even take Osyluth's guile to get your CHA to AC again. Both it and Dodging Panache are Dodge bonuses, and those explicitly always stack.


Aldori sword lords can't do much without their Aldori swords; I'd think about doing something with a sunder-focused build.


They also can't do much without full attacks/full round actions, which the extended reach will help you counter.

It seems like your opponent is also going to have some pretty crazy AC though, so you're going to need ways to reduce that. If you can deny his Dex without loosing too much in terms of effectiveness, you should be able to do well. Swasbuckler Deeds such as Superior Feint and even Targeted Strike (works for disarming, and your opponent will have to suffer Attacks of Opportunity to retrieve said items) work really well for this point, as they don't require any special investment on your behalf.

Basically, just get your attack bonus up as high as you can. Weapon Focus. Greater Weapon Focus. Gloves of Marking if Gloves of Dueling aren't allowed. A Swashbuckler's Rapier also works. You'll hemorrhage through your panache, but hopefully, the battle isn't a long one.


Boots of the Battle Herald can also provide for your Greater Heroism needs, if the Scroll gets shot down.

Kaouse is wise though. Listen to Kaouse.


_Ozy_ wrote:

I think the OP was referring to building a character that specifically targets the other player's weaknesses, and defends against the other player's strengths.

It's a little unfair if the other person has a general PFS build, even if that build is optimized, instead of an anti-swashbuckler build.

Has the OP favored us with his opponent's character build?


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

I think the OP was referring to building a character that specifically targets the other player's weaknesses, and defends against the other player's strengths.

It's a little unfair if the other person has a general PFS build, even if that build is optimized, instead of an anti-swashbuckler build.

Has the OP favored us with his opponent's character build?

He dosent know.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

I think the OP was referring to building a character that specifically targets the other player's weaknesses, and defends against the other player's strengths.

It's a little unfair if the other person has a general PFS build, even if that build is optimized, instead of an anti-swashbuckler build.

Has the OP favored us with his opponent's character build?

Only that it's a Swordlord.


noble peasant wrote:

Melkiador is not me. Just saying. :)

I was planning on a locked gauntlet to avoid disarm, plus the adamantine weapon could be helpful for sunder unless his weapon is adamantine? Idk not familiar with high level play.

Was thinking of a katana for weapon choice?

I'm also unsure of the rules for demoralize, how do I build to combat it?

but are you the OP on a different account then?


Couldnt he just have his character be deaf to avoid the demoralize?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / I've been challenged to pvp duel and need some min / maxing advice. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.