So, after finally getting my hands on "Potion of the Ocean" as Damiel, I started to realize it was just as strong as I had imagined, but we had some questions regarding some checks.
Wording on Potion:
"Banish this card and choose a character at your location to succeed at a check to defeat a bane with the Aquatic trait."
1. What if this is used on a monster with the Swarm trait, saying:
"If you do not defeat the Monster by at least 4, shuffle it into the deck it came from; the Monster still counts as defeated."
Is the Monster defeated? Is it defeated and shuffled? It is unclear to the number of your check when playing the Potion. We played it now as that you get the exact number of the Check to Defeat. Meaning it would be shuffled back, but still defeated.
2. The Sea Troll requires you to have the Fire or Acid trait in your combat check, else it is undefeated.
Playing a potion therefor kills it with 20, but doesn't defeat it? Hence you get no damage and it gets shuffled back in the deck?
3. Some monsters require you to make one check twice, and only will the monster be defeated if you succeed at the second check. (Giant Rock Crab example:) "If the Giant Rock Crab would be defeated, reroll the dice. The Giant Rock Crab is defeated or undefeated based solely on the result of the second die roll."
If I were to play Potion and defeat it, I would need to reroll the dice a second time, but I didn't roll any dice? Does this mean my second check is automatically succeeded, because the Potion repeated it self? Or did I roll 0 dice on my first check, so I roll 0 dice on my second check, making my second check a 0 + modifiers?
And what if I rolled 4 dice and need to reroll them? Can I then instead use the Potion to make the second check?
4. Last question: Some Villains (Like Horrus the Incredible Strong Wereshark) have the Aquatic Trait. Making these a cakewalk if you have 2 Potions to just kill him without even breaking a sweat. Should this be this case?
Thank you!
1. What if this is used on a monster with the Swarm trait, saying:
"If you do not defeat the Monster by at least 4, shuffle it into the deck it came from; the Monster still counts as defeated."Is the Monster defeated? Is it defeated and shuffled? It is unclear to the number of your check when playing the Potion. We played it now as that you get the exact number of the Check to Defeat. Meaning it would be shuffled back, but still defeated.
It still counts as defeated, but it gets shuffled since your result wasn't high enough. The potion gives you no number, it just succeeds at the check.
2. The Sea Troll requires you to have the Fire or Acid trait in your combat check, else it is undefeated.
Playing a potion therefor kills it with 20, but doesn't defeat it? Hence you get no damage and it gets shuffled back in the deck?
Right. You didn't have the required trait. I'd say you could still do other things to add the fire trait, even if you don't need to roll. So Damiel could use his power to add the Fire trait and then play the Potion of the Ocean.
3. Some monsters require you to make one check twice, and only will the monster be defeated if you succeed at the second check. (Giant Rock Crab example:) "If the Giant Rock Crab would be defeated, reroll the dice. The Giant Rock Crab is defeated or undefeated based solely on the result of the second die roll."
If I were to play Potion and defeat it, I would need to reroll the dice a second time, but I didn't roll any dice? Does this mean my second check is automatically succeeded, because the Potion repeated it self? Or did I roll 0 dice on my first check, so I roll 0 dice on my second check, making my second check a 0 + modifiers?
And what if I rolled 4 dice and need to reroll them? Can I then instead use the Potion to make the second check?
I'd say you wouldn't reroll. Or you would but the potion is still in effect. And you can't play cards between the first roll and the reroll, so you can't change your mind and play the potion.
4. Last question: Some Villains (Like Horrus the Incredible Strong Wereshark) have the Aquatic Trait. Making these a cakewalk if you have 2 Potions to just kill him without even breaking a sweat. Should this be this case?
Absolutely.
Chief Technical Officer
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1. You're not rolling dice, so you didn't defeat it by more than 4; it's defeated, but shuffled.
2. You're succeeding at the check, but it doesn't have the required traits, so it's not defeated.
3. You're not rolling dice, so it's impossible to reroll them—ignore that instruction. You defeated it.
4. That's what it says!
heehee. Hawk ninja'd Vic.
Good. Then we did everything good.
I love having 2 Potions of the Ocean and just laughing at silly Weresharks who get +6! Há! Há, I tell you!
2. You're succeeding at the check, but it doesn't have the required traits, so it's not defeated.
But you're still allowed to gather your dice pool and all that entails, right? So Damiel can still use his power to add a d6 + the fire trait to the check - thus meeting the fire trait requirement for permanent defeat - before he plays the PotO, right?
But you're still allowed to gather your dice pool and all that entails, right? So Damiel can still use his power to add a d6 + the fire trait to the check - thus meeting the fire trait requirement for permanent defeat - before he plays the PotO, right?
2. You're succeeding at the check, but it doesn't have the required traits, so it's not defeated.
With the wording of the rules as they stand currently, when you add traits to a check, you are adding traits to the check itself, not just the dice that may be added by cards that add traits (though, if something becomes immune to a trait that gave dice, only those dice are removed from the pool).
If the PotO outright 'defeated' something, I'd normally say that it was defeated entirely by the potion, so no traits that were added to the check matter.
However, PotO states that the check is still taking place, it is simply insuring that you succeed at the check, so any traits that were added to the check by cards or abilities should still be in place.
You're not succeeding at the check by any certain number (so things that rely on that don't kick in), but the check has the traits, and it was a successful check attempt.
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But you're still allowed to gather your dice pool and all that entails, right? So Damiel can still use his power to add a d6 + the fire trait to the check - thus meeting the fire trait requirement for permanent defeat - before he plays the PotO, right?
2. You're succeeding at the check, but it doesn't have the required traits, so it's not defeated.
You play your cards and powers, then make the check; so the order won't matter in this case.
Damiel's power adds 1d6 and Fire to the check.
PotO ensures that the check's value will be Ø, where Ø = the monster's check-against after applying circumstantial modifiers.
Thus, when you make the check, you "roll" a total of Ø with the Fire trait. That Sea Troll is charbroiled.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Ok. So, the Sea Troll requires you to have the Fire or Acid trait in your combat check or else it is undefeated. You use Potion of the Ocean ("Banish this card and choose a character at your location to succeed at a check to defeat a bane with the Aquatic trait") to auto-defeat. The question, then, is can Damiel use his power to add 1d6 + the Fire trait to the check?
The first thing I'd look at is exactly when you actually play Potion of the Ocean. I don't see any reason that would happen anywhere other than the "Play Cards and Use Powers That Affect Your Check" portion of "Attempting the Check," and since that's the same time Damiel uses his power, you get to choose the order. So that suggests you can indeed fire off that power before you play that card.
The second thing I'd look at is whether the wording of Damiel's power prevents it: "You may discard a card to add 1d6 (□+1) (□+2) and the Poison or Fire trait to any combat check at your location." Can I use that power when I know I'm not actually going to be rolling the dice? I don't see anything stopping me.
So yes, you can add the Fire trait and then auto-succeed at the check.