Arcane Trickster (Min / Max)


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Sczarni

Hey guys so I have been looking around and have not been able to find much on this topic. Essentially i just want to get a guide to a high damage build for this class. If anyone has a link or can give me some tips that would be great!


Someone worked out how to abuse this and some multi classing somewhere to abuse sneak attack fireball for something like 26d6+50 damage at 15th level with some other stuff. No idea where that was though. I'll have a look.

Sczarni

If you could find that it would be wonderful =D thanks you very much


You'd have the best luck in the Advice forum, so I flagged this post for moving.

What's the context? Is this for a campaign or are you just theory-crafting? If it's for a campaign, what is the character generation method (i.e. point buy, rolling, or a standard array), what level do you start at, is it a standard pathfinder setting (i.e. high magic), what resources are available for use, and does the GM allow spell-like abilities to count for prerequisites of a prestige class that involve casting spells of a particular level? (Until a recent revision of the rules, they did; after that revision, they do not, but some GMs still allow the previous way.)

Sczarni

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

You'd have the best luck in the Advice forum, so I flagged this post for moving.

What's the context? Is this for a campaign or are you just theory-crafting? If it's for a campaign, what is the character generation method (i.e. point buy, rolling, or a standard array), what level do you start at, is it a standard pathfinder setting (i.e. high magic), what resources are available for use, and does the GM allow spell-like abilities to count for prerequisites of a prestige class that involve casting spells of a particular level? (Until a recent revision of the rules, they did; after that revision, they do not, but some GMs still allow the previous way.)

I would love to move this there but I'm not sure how =/. The context atm is just theory crafting and it is something I would like to eventually use in a campaign but do not have the opportunity yet. It would be a standard pathfinder setting with home brew campaigns, so like it uses the pathfinder world but not any of the pre-made scenarios. I am note sure what you mean by what resources are available and my GM is newer so he would not really have a pre made opinion on wether or not i could use spell-like abilities as a pre req. most likely we would ask some more experienced people and hear their thoughts on it. Uh i think i covered it =D


Click my name look in my threads I have a guide linked there.

Alternatively go to the advice forum and look in the guide to guides thread.

Finally Ravingdork is another poster with some specific high damage arcane trickster builds posted.


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Abraham's AT guide

Another AT guide


Good luck. I LOVE the idea of the arcane trickster. I hate the mechanics of trying to play with one.
You end up with a BAB less than a wizard; so even flanking you aren't going to be able to hit with a melee attack.
At higher levels (when the build starts to hit it stride) it is hard to get sneak attack damage from invisibility as more and more enemies can see through it. And it is hard to get ranged sneak attack.

YMMV. I am part of a gaming group that has been playing weekly since 3.0 came out, so we tend toward 'effective' builds since we have been doing it for so long.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I posted a small thread with some good advice elsewhere (just ignore the parts about the setting and the solo play)

Here it is


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Brawler (snakebite striker) 1/[alchemist (vivisectionist), ninja, or rogue] 1/wizard (Evocation/Admixture school) 4/arcane trickster 6/arcane archer 2/arcane trickster +4/arcane archer +2 gives you a BAB of +12 (with heroism, you're not that far behind a standard rogue) and spell progression as a 17th level wizard (9th-level spells).


Dragonchess is slightly wrong:

Alchemist(vivisectionist) 1 /anything else 1 won't work. Alchemist(vivisectionist) is very specific that it uses level stacks, not dice stacks.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ultimate Magic wrote:
At 1st level, a vivisectionist gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of the same level. If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack's extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on). This ability replaces bomb.

(emphasis mine)

Advanced Class Guide wrote:
At 1st level, the snakebite striker can make a sneak attack. This is as the rogue ability of the same name. At 1st level, her sneak attack damage is +1d6. This increases by 1d6 at 6th, 10th, 12th, and 20th levels. If she gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack. This ability replaces martial flexibility.

(emphasis mine)

Specific trumps general. The vivisectionist is treated as a rogue of equal level for Sneak Attack. Snakebite striker explicitly states that the Sneak Attack bonus gained by the archetype stacks with any other bonus.

Of course, if you want to play that game, a snakebite striker 6/vivisectionist 3 could arguably have a 7d6 Sneak Attack ("effective rogue level" 9 as vivisectionist plus 2d6 explicitly stacking from snakebite striker). Just say no.


To be fair, I wouldn't even bother with Fireball. Stone Call is a MUCH better AOE spell for sneak attack because it ALWAYS works. No save. No SR. No problem.


Second sentence first ability dragonchess. You bolded the wrong part. The general rule is the stack. Vivisectionist explicitly states however that you stack levels not dice. That is the much more specific and explicit case in this.

It even explicitly gives an exact example.

From you own quote:

If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack's extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).

********

However what I think your argument isthe alchemist level would count as rogue level not brawler level. This is false it stacks with whichever class grants the sneak attack at that classes scale.

A sandman bard 5 vivisetionist 1 would only have 1d6 sneak attack. A snakebite 1 vivisectionist 1 only has 1 1d6 sneak attack Because the level stack and snakebite does not get his second die until level 6. A brawler 5 vivisectionist 1 would have 2d6 sneak attack.


TLDR: pick a generic blaster build and tackle on it sneak attack.

Sczarni

hah thanks everyone for the help! i got a lot here i can use and am confident in my ability to make this class to my liking now. Again thanks everyone for your time and effort =D

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