| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
With equipment trick hog tie it's only-5 to tie up.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not 100% sure, but isn't there a normally terrible feat or ability or something that lets you knock the air out of someone and make the spend a load of their rounds of breath by hitting them?
I may be thinking of some 3.5 material. IDK.
Yep. Breathtaker, from People of the River.
It's still terrible, even with Kraken Style. Less terrible, admittedly, but you're still looking at 4 or 5 rounds of grappling before getting to con checks.
Actually...no it's not.
A 1st level Barbarian probably has 22 Str while raging. 24 by 6th.
Call that 2 attacks, -14 rounds of breath.
Is a grappling barbarian making melee attacks when maintaining a grapple chokehold via Kraken Throttle? The answer is "expect table variation."
Is the barbarian assisting a monk who is choking the target by making melee attacks against the target? If so, then I would expect the attacks to do much, MUCH more than the chokehold will.
Two words: Rapid Grappler.
Move action maintain, Swift and Standard attack.
Granted, it's not GREAT, but it's at least USABLE.
I'm not 100% sure, but isn't there a normally terrible feat or ability or something that lets you knock the air out of someone and make the spend a load of their rounds of breath by hitting them?
I may be thinking of some 3.5 material. IDK.
Yep. Breathtaker, from People of the River.
It's still terrible, even with Kraken Style. Less terrible, admittedly, but you're still looking at 4 or 5 rounds of grappling before getting to con checks.
Actually...no it's not.
A 1st level Barbarian probably has 22 Str while raging. 24 by 6th.
Call that 2 attacks, -14 rounds of breath.
Is a grappling barbarian making melee attacks when maintaining a grapple chokehold via Kraken Throttle? The answer is "expect table variation."
Is the barbarian assisting a monk who is choking the target by making melee attacks against the target? If so, then I would expect the attacks to do much, MUCH more than the chokehold will.
Two words: Rapid Grappler.
Move action maintain, Swift and Standard attack.
Granted, it's not GREAT, but it's at least USABLE.
That's a long time to wait for that feat.
That's Grapple builds for you.
Chokehold doesn't come online until 7th level anyway.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That kind of depresses me to see something that could be perfectly logical and a great asset to any grappler build be already told that dev intent was to make a worthless ability no one would ever want to use. Makes me wonder why the devs would ever want to release such an ability that has no true use over other builds. I mean, come on, either just raise the extra damage or something, but the odds of anyone using this against a caster will ever get to the true 'suffocating' phase is basically nonexistant. Unless of course you are roleplaying a 1v1 arena and you sit there for 15-20 rounds until you finally win...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eh. This is why we have houserules.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think I'll be houseruling this to go to the Con checks phase of suffocation/holding your breath.
If you're looking for a RAW way to use this, the warpriest's Airless Touch lets you prevent someone from holding their breath. If you can use the blessing and maintain a grapple in the same round (such as with Greater Grapple or Quicken Blessing), you can combine Airless Touch with choking to knock someone out.
Airless Touch (minor): At 1st level, with a successful melee touch attack you can steal the breath from an opponent's lungs, leaving it unable to speak, use breath weapons, cast spells with verbal components, or do anything else requiring breath for 1 round. If the target fails at a Fortitude saving throw, it's also staggered for 1 round as it catches its breath. If the target was attempting to hold its breath, it can no longer do so: it must breathe on its turn or risk suffocation and unconsciousness. Creatures that don't need to breathe are unaffected. Regardless of whether it succeeds at its saving throw, the target is immune to further uses of your airless touch for 24 hours.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
You kind of linked it at the end of the part where it is said, but that is a pretty good explanation of the Kraken Style lol.
Slight monk/grapple noob here, but:
Currently even without kraken style entering the equation, you can coup de gras on the second round after a rapid+greater grapple using tie up?
(Move) Initiate Grapple
(Standard) Pin
(Swift) Tie Up
granted, that's two full rounds + grapple check + provoke on the coup, but isn't it in roughly the same ballpark?
If you use delay with another melee, you can do it same round, provided you eat the provoke, or stay out of threat.
Is this not allowed?
Slight monk/grapple noob here, but:
Currently even without kraken style entering the equation, you can coup de gras on the second round after a rapid+greater grapple using tie up?
(Move) Initiate Grapple
(Standard) Pin
(Swift) Tie Upgranted, that's two full rounds + grapple check + provoke on the coup, but isn't it in roughly the same ballpark?
If you use delay with another melee, you can do it same round, provided you eat the provoke, or stay out of threat.
Is this not allowed?
How do you initiate a grapple with a move action?
In my Reading the best you can get is a immidiate action grapple with snapping turtle clutch, if you take mobility and provoke a AoO with a move you can then use your standart action to pin.
Slight monk/grapple noob here, but:
Currently even without kraken style entering the equation, you can coup de gras on the second round after a rapid+greater grapple using tie up?
(Move) Initiate Grapple
(Standard) Pin
(Swift) Tie Upgranted, that's two full rounds + grapple check + provoke on the coup, but isn't it in roughly the same ballpark?
If you use delay with another melee, you can do it same round, provided you eat the provoke, or stay out of threat.
Is this not allowed?
You've got your move and standard swapped, but yes that's legal. Alternatively, if you have Greater Grapple only, you can standard to initiate, move to tie up with a -10 penalty on the check.