Would This Custom Magic Item Be Worth What It Appears To Cost?


Advice


Ok. So, the idea is a pair of gloves that give whatever weapon the user is wielding (including improvised weapons) a +1 magic enhancement bonus via the spell magic weapon. So. I looked over the cost of making it basing it off of the spell magic weapon.

1 caster level x 1 spell level x 2,000gp x 2 for it being a 1 minute spell. That leads to it costing 4,000gp.

Assuming the DM would allow an item that does the above, would said item actually be worth the cost?

Side Note: It seemed like the math was off under the magic item creation rules for the example continuous item. It listed the lantern that gives constant purge invisibility which shows as a 3rd level spell, for a 5th level cleric and is a 1 minute duration. Meaning 5 x 3 x 2,000 x 2 = 60,000, but the item is listed as 30,000 (On the PFSRD) and can be created for 15,000.

Liberty's Edge

I would say so. In fact it would be cheaper than enchanting 2 weapons. So if you're a character who switches between bow and greatsword, or any other combination of 2 or more weapons it would be a great item. Even if it only worked on manufactured weapons, it would still be a good item, especially for any character that uses thrown weapons. You could use it to enhance regular daggers/chakrams/javelins for nearly half the price of the usual answer to this problem (a blink back belt and a +1 dagger). So yes, great item at that price. If you look at similar items it's either limited use, or much more expensive.


Interesting. Thanks for the input. The fact that there are items like this that are much more expensive, is sort of odd to me. It's not like its making the mundane weapons permanently +1 that you can resell to a merchant, and while gaining magical +1 enhancement is good for DR and a small bump in damage and accuracy, it doesn't seem all that major later on down the road.

As for cost, I thought it was on par with enchanting 2 weapons. Isn't it 2,000gp a piece to add +1 to a weapon?


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So... these gloves are basically the Amulet of Mighty Fists, except that they modify wielded weapons.

4k would seem to be accurate.

Liberty's Edge

The thing is a magic weapons must be masterwork first, so an addition 300 GP a piece. Also the ability to turn any weapon into a magic weapon is pretty handy, you can have a +1 slashing, or bludgeoning, or piercing weapon at will, simply by pulling out whatever mundane weapon you wanted. Then add in the ranged weapon, a reach weapon, a trip or disarm weapon. It's way more valuable than two +1 weapons. The closest thing you could probably find price-wise would be the amulet of mighty fists, and though it costs 4000 GP as well, it only enchants natural attacks and unarmed strikes, which you can't really switch out for something more useful at a moments notice.

Silver Crusade Contributor

I might include a clause that it can't apply to cold iron weapons. Other than that, though, I think the idea is pretty cool. :)


Sandslice wrote:

So... these gloves are basically the Amulet of Mighty Fists, except that they modify wielded weapons.

4k would seem to be accurate.

Amulets of Mighty Fists cost as much as actual weapons, now.

Look on the Sidebar where it mentions the Paizo Blog. 2000gp is a +1 Amulet.

Liberty's Edge

Unless there's some new blog entry I haven't seen yet, they do not cost 2000 GP. Although I have been operating under the assumption the OP has meant that someone will be making these items for his character, and not the character crafting them him/herself. The amulet of mighty fists should still be 4000 GP to buy, 2000 Gp to craft yourself, according to the monk blog.


Good point about the masterwork requirments. Thanks for the input everyone.


You aren't comparing it to the right "type" of effect unfortunately. The fact that it grants an enhancement bonus to attack and damage (aka magic weapon) means you should be valuing it versus that "type" of bonus. This is also why an item that grants True Strike constantly is always "cheap" when using these figures, it isn't the "right" number to cost out the item.

4k gp would be a steal for any character who switch hits or uses multiple weapons or gets disarmed and so on. Why buy magical weapons when any and every weapon I hold is magical? It should probably be priced slightly higher just to "force" the decision, make it a choice and not a no brainer for every low level character who may make use of it. 6k might be a more proper ball park figure.


This is counter-balanced by the fact that you would need to take a standard action to 'activate' the effect for whatever weapon you switch to during combat. (A standard action 'True Strike' actually isn't that great).

This is a pretty big downside compared to just having two enchanted weapons. Furthermore, the 'why buy magic items' is because you probably will want weapons that are better than +1 at some point in your career, at which point these gloves become useless, whereas those two enchanted weapons you had instead can be improved.


Personally, I would instead, make it a permanent bonus to any held weapon, but instead of making the item have the enhancement squared x 2000 gold, I would make it enhancement squared x 4000 gold. As it is twice as effective. If you would want it to confer any special abilities, Such as its effective enhancement bonus such as adding holy to the +1 gloves, I would consider the cost of the gloves as a +3 enhancement making the price of the gloves a total of 36000 gold pieces instead of the normal 18000.


I would consider making it enhancement squared x 3000 gold, as it does take up a coveted item slot where as actual weapons do not.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

the pricing is just a general guide btw (if it hasn't already been said), several items are going to be off on their pricing.


From Magic Item Gold Piece Value wrote:
The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item, the GM should require using the price of the item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from the "command word" or "use-activated or continuous" lines of Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

Using the formula for the Magic Weapon spell:

1st level spell x 1st level caster x continuous (same as 5 times/day) x 2,000 gp. This gets you a +1 bonus for 1 minute for 1 standard action casting & you can do it 5 times per day. Or another interpretation is +1 bonus continuous via use (wielding any weapon with the gloves) - i.e. no standard action & it's always on. By base formula, this costs you 2,000 gp either way (which means if given the choice, anyone would select the continuous option as being more action economy friendly).

However, a similar item, Amulet of Mighty Fists, costs twice this. Guidance for the GM is to go with the similar item first, then go to the formula. Therefore, start with the Amulet of Might Fists cost as the absolute minimum for the +1 effect. That all assumes the GM wants to allow this item to exist within their campaign. The GM has no obligation to allow you to create this, or could start at 4,000 then apply an additional multiplier as these gloves are, IMHO, more useful than an AoMF since they can apply to many more weapon options.

Extending this line of thought, here's what using the formula for the Greater Magic Weapon spell shows:
3rd level spell (Sorcerer/Wizard) x 8th level caster (to get +2 bonus) x once/day (1/5 of continuous). Using the same formula (shenanigans), it's 3 x 8 x 1/5 x 2,000 gp, or 9,600 gp. This gets you a +2 bonus for 8 hours. For adventuring, 8 hours is effectively continuous.

Again checking against AoMF, you'll see the cost for continuous +2 of a similar item is 16,000 gp, so that's the better guidance for minimum floor value for the Greater Magic Weapon version of the Gloves - and they can be used for higher enhancement bonus values, should you decide to enhance them further.

IMO, I'd cost this like an AoMF x 1.5, as the ability to eventually enhance this with extra abilities makes this a very, very flexible & strong option. If I opened this door in my campaign, I'd want the extra cost so everyone didn't just buy these gloves rather than selecting & investing in specific items.


Considering RegUS' post above reminded me, I would take the cost of the Amulet of Mighty Fist prices and multiply them by 1.5; doing this would be a fair cost for said gloves.


+1 amulet of mighty fist x 1.5? So 6,000 to buy outright, 3,000 to craft? Sounds fair enough to me.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The closest equivalent item would be deliquescent gloves:

Ultimate Equipment wrote:

Deliquescent Gloves

Price 8,000 gp; Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Weight 1 lb.

These heavy leather gloves ripple and flows at the wearer's command, reshaping to fit any hand, claw, tentacle, or alien limb. The wearer's melee touch attacks with that hand deal 1d6 points of acid damage. If the wearer uses that hand to wield a weapon or make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, that attack gains the corrosive weapon special ability.

The wearer's gloved hand is protected from the acid ability of oozes, allowing him to use that hand to attack oozes with unarmed strikes or natural attacks without risk of harm from contact with the ooze. These unarmed strikes and natural attacks never cause an ooze to split.

Construction Requirements

Cost 4,000 gp

Craft Wondrous Item, acid arrow, summon monster V

Corrosive is a +1 equivalent weapon ability. You don't gain the protection from acid, but can penetrate DR/magic, so I'd say 8,000 gp is probably a good ballpark.


Dragonchess Player wrote:

The closest equivalent item would be deliquescent gloves:

Ultimate Equipment wrote:

Deliquescent Gloves

Price 8,000 gp; Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Weight 1 lb.

These heavy leather gloves ripple and flows at the wearer's command, reshaping to fit any hand, claw, tentacle, or alien limb. The wearer's melee touch attacks with that hand deal 1d6 points of acid damage. If the wearer uses that hand to wield a weapon or make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, that attack gains the corrosive weapon special ability.

The wearer's gloved hand is protected from the acid ability of oozes, allowing him to use that hand to attack oozes with unarmed strikes or natural attacks without risk of harm from contact with the ooze. These unarmed strikes and natural attacks never cause an ooze to split.

Construction Requirements

Cost 4,000 gp

Craft Wondrous Item, acid arrow, summon monster V

Corrosive is a +1 equivalent weapon ability. You don't gain the protection from acid, but can penetrate DR/magic, so I'd say 8,000 gp is probably a good ballpark.

You're forgetting the touch attack it grants, something Corrosive doesn't allow. I'd say that 8000gp would be overpriced for a normal +1.


I actually think 4k is the right ballpark, for reasons that have been stated here - it isn't wildly different from AMoF, it's just a +1, and - at the end of the day, it's about in the ballpark of weapon enhances.

I somewhat disagree with Skylancer in that it is priced similarly to weapon enhancements.

W/r/t Deighton Thrane's comments about being able to switch weapons - I think that's the POINT, and that's what I like about it! However it is an advantage.

I like this item, but here's what I would do: make it only work for 1 weapon at a time. Make it a scalable enhancement bonus upto +5, priced the same as AMoF (i.e. 2x 1 weapon enhance). Then what you're getting out of it is more flexibility, the cool factor of being able to switch around weapons, etc.


I think 6k is a relatively appropriate price for the suggested item.

Way I can think off to use this item:
1) Enhance your standard weapon.
A weak option because just enhancing the weapon +1 would be cheaper then the gloves, making the item near useless for someone who uses only one weapon.
2) Enhance your standard & backup weapon.
Again a weak option, you are still only enhancing one weapon at a time and the combined cost to enhance them seperately is merely 2300+weapon cost per weapon. Not to mention that you will eventually find a magical weapon s then the gloves wont be helping that weapon anymore.
3) Enhance both your weapons while dual wielding & your backup weapon.
This is the first time you see an actual gain from the item because now youre benefitting on three weapons at the same time. However, as you gain magic al weapons over time, the gloves loose efficiency.
4) Enhance thrown weapons.
Here is where I see use in this item. usually when you use thrown weapons you must spend inordinary amounts of gold if you want to be able to throw magical weapons. Normally you would need a Blinkback belt or similar item, or weapons with the returning quality, which is still only good for one attack per round at a rather huge gold cost. The only issue if the gloves are used in this manner is that the thrown item is not returned at all, requiring the wielder to go fetch his thrown weapons after combat. I could definitely imagine having this weapon on a knife throwing character as it can potentially save a huge amount of gold that would otherwise be spent to enhance a huge load of daggers.

.
So, 6000 seems like a legit, raw, cost, but because the item is so much rooted in a niche combat style I'dd say that the final price ought to be 5500 gold.


If it takes a standard action to enhance a thrown weapon, it's even worse than using it on your regular weapon.


This item would be very powerful for a monk or a ninja who uses throwing stars, shuriuken.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Of course you are paying the action cost of taking the standard action to buff your weapon before combat. I would probably put a higher price on it because it IS that good an item to have.


I'm not clear on how the use of this proposed item actually works. Can I use it in conjunction with appropriate feats to draw and throw three newly-magical daggers in the same round?

If so, I think it's more than 6000gp.


The easiest way to make this is to make those gloves a gauntlet, and enchant them with Allying. Free action to grant the enhancement bonus to a allies weapon within sight. Make it a pair and you can do it to 2 weapons. Best thing is you can load up on special effect enhancements on your weapons and use the gauntlets to buff the bonus. ;)


Why do people keep insisting on forgetting about the standard action to use it? Not only would it not work for throwing multiple weapons a round, you can only throw every other round. It sucks.


The OP never said anything about activation cost, just that any weapon they held would be a magical item. As in, a weapon was picked up is now acting as a magic weapon. Like when a character with no claws and an AoMF shape changes all the sudden every natural weapon is magical.

In that respect, the gloves are better than an AoMF, so should be more expensive.

If the OP intended for an activation cost, they never said so, so I'm not sure why people would start making that assumption.

Shadow Lodge

OP is using the pricing formula for a continuous or use-activated item, not a command activated item, indicating that it does not take an action to activate.


If you make it a use activated item then that would drastically reduce its usefulness.


How on earth could this be a use-activated item? You put the gloves on (use them) and then what? All use-activated items that you wear apply some bonus to you when they are worn (bracers of armor, falcon's aim, rings of prot, boots striding, AoMF, etc...). The item under discussion bestows an effective 'magic weapon' spell on an item that is held in hand.

The only way this makes any sense is as a standard activation item.

Use activated clothing 'activates' when worn, not when you pick something up with them.

Making this gloves 'use activated' makes as much sense as a use activated ring of magic missile, or gloves of shocking grasp. Items just don't work that way, at least none that I've ever seen.


A +1 Bladed Belt (can turn into any piercing or slashing weapon) would be 4000 GP so that's a good baseline.

I'd probably cost that at an even 5000 GP and explicitly note the bonus will apply to throwing weapons and weapons created by spell effects such as Flame Blade or Thorn Javelin (which would make it worth the cost for throwers, who normally throw away items worth more than their weight in gold, or a character who liked those spells, which currently have little to support someone specializing in them, and the rest is just gravy).


_Ozy_ wrote:

How on earth could this be a use-activated item? You put the gloves on (use them) and then what? All use-activated items that you wear apply some bonus to you when they are worn (bracers of armor, falcon's aim, rings of prot, boots striding, AoMF, etc...). The item under discussion bestows an effective 'magic weapon' spell on an item that is held in hand.

The only way this makes any sense is as a standard activation item.

Use activated clothing 'activates' when worn, not when you pick something up with them.

Making this gloves 'use activated' makes as much sense as a use activated ring of magic missile, or gloves of shocking grasp. Items just don't work that way, at least none that I've ever seen.

AoMF works that way. You put it on and any and all natural attacks and unarmed strikes, no matter how you got them are now magical.

That is what the OP asked for, regardless of how it makes sense or doesn't to you. So that is what we are trying to price for them.


Uh, yeah, it enhances your strikes. It's affecting your physical body when you wear it. Not something you pick up. It's not transferring an enchant to everything you touch.

It's a completely different effect.

Can you find any item in the book that automatically enchants another item when you pick it up?


_Ozy_ wrote:

Uh, yeah, it enhances your strikes. It's affecting your physical body when you wear it. Not something you pick up. It's not transferring an enchant to everything you touch.

It's a completely different effect.

Can you find any item in the book that automatically enchants another item when you pick it up?

Thank you for stating the obvious. Not that I am aware of, which is exactly why the OP is asking about how to price such an item... I don't understand why you seem to not be able to grasp this. If it existed, they wouldn't be asking about such an item now would they? The reason custom magic item guidelines exist is so people can do exactly this type of thing, make items to do things that don't exist.


If you're pricing an item that not only doesn't exist, but operates completely differently than every other item that exists, then chances are you're building it wrong.

In fact, there is an item that is similar to what he wants, the scabbard of keen edges, so that should as the basis for the unique item.

For example, you can price gloves that let you cast a magic missile five times per day. Heck, you could probably price gloves that let you shoot a magic missile an unlimited number of times per day using your standard action, though I'm sure people would argue about the cost.

You can't price or build 'use activated' gloves that automatically shoot missiles at all your enemies every round while they are in range as free actions during your turn. At least, not without breaking game mechanics.

Maybe the OP gloves aren't as overpowered as that example, but they break the game mechanics nonetheless, unless you're using a standard action to activate the gloves.

Dark Archive

Since you are basically adding enhancement bonus but using a different slot than normal to do so, I would add the off slot modifier to the base price of 4,000. I think that makes it 6,000. That sounds fair to me. If you made it an amulet then 4,000 sounds good to me.

To the poster above, there is an item that does a very similar thing already in the rules. It's called an amulet of mighty fists(replace natural attacks with weapon attacks). This isn't a completely different effect, it's the difference between Magic Fang and Magic Weapon. Saying that if the item doesn't require a standard action to activate then it breaks the game mechanics is complete and utter nonsense.


@Ozy
The already mentioned Deliquescent gloves treat any weapon you wield as though they have the Corrosive quality.

@On Topic
It's worth noting that the Deliquescent gloves stack with enhancement bonuses, while these gloves would overlap with any magical weapon (since it's an enhancement bonus). I think the idea is interesting, but I think 8k is a bit too steep - I'd price it at 4k, like an Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Liberty's Edge

If it only worked with manufactured weapons (or spells that act like them), had no activation, and overlapped (but did not stack) with existing enhancements then I would price it like an amulet of mighty fists. (EDIT: And obviously the weapon would have to be held in hand(s) to gain the benefits, so no boot blades or barbazu beards would be getting help from this.)

Deliquescent gloves are twice that, but stack with existing enchantments and grant two additional benefits (touch attack, resistance against acid oozes).


StabbittyDoom wrote:

If it only worked with manufactured weapons (or spells that act like them), had no activation, and overlapped (but did not stack) with existing enhancements then I would price it like an amulet of mighty fists. (EDIT: And obviously the weapon would have to be held in hand(s) to gain the benefits, so no boot blades or barbazu beards would be getting help from this.)

Deliquescent gloves are twice that, but stack with existing enchantments and grant two additional benefits (touch attack, resistance against acid oozes).

This. Dual wielding or thrown weapon enhancement prices should not be used as standards because they're strictly inferior to two handed weapons or bows.

You save a tiny bit on masterwork, but you lose your glove slot and unlike the AMF you don't free up your hand in the process because you need a weapon to use it. It's actually worse than the closest parallel of stacking an enhancement to armor with an enhancement to shield in different slots because those stack fully but this will always have at least +1 overlap with a magic weapon.


Do the Deliquescent gloves apply to thrown weapons?

Liberty's Edge

_Ozy_ wrote:
Do the Deliquescent gloves apply to thrown weapons?

Yes. It applies to all natural weapons on a gloved limb or weapons wielded in a gloved hand. (EDIT: Technically it only applies to the attack with those weapons. Which is what makes thrown work: You wielded a weapon with that gloved hand and attacked with it.)

Not that anyone cares too much about thrown weapons...


Deliquescent Gloves only work on natural weapons or unarmed strikes, but Demonic Smith's Gloves (8000 GP, also has a +4 craft checks with a drawback that never actually come up if you just take 10) however work on all weapons.

Removing the +4 checks would make the item cost 5600 GP.

Shadow Lodge

deuxhero wrote:
Deliquescent Gloves only work on natural weapons or unarmed strikes,

Not true, as indicated by the bolded phrase.

Deliquescent Gloves wrote:
If the wearer uses that hand to wield a weapon or make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, that attack gains the corrosive weapon special ability.

Confirmation that they work on ranged weapons here.


_Ozy_ wrote:

If you're pricing an item that not only doesn't exist, but operates completely differently than every other item that exists, then chances are you're building it wrong.

In fact, there is an item that is similar to what he wants, the scabbard of keen edges, so that should as the basis for the unique item.

For example, you can price gloves that let you cast a magic missile five times per day. Heck, you could probably price gloves that let you shoot a magic missile an unlimited number of times per day using your standard action, though I'm sure people would argue about the cost.

You can't price or build 'use activated' gloves that automatically shoot missiles at all your enemies every round while they are in range as free actions during your turn. At least, not without breaking game mechanics.

Maybe the OP gloves aren't as overpowered as that example, but they break the game mechanics nonetheless, unless you're using a standard action to activate the gloves.

You are entitled to your opinion, that doesn't make your right however.

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