|
I recently posted two 5th level builds I was working on for Pathfinder Society here and received some good feedback. I switched some things around and leveled one of those builds up to level 11, as suggested by someone on the message boards, to see what it would look like. Hoping to get more feedback/advice/comments on my build by posting it here for you guys.
"The mountain does not tremble at the breaking of the dawn"
Tengu
Monk (Unchained) 6 / Rogue (Unchained,Scout,Swordmaster) 5
Alternate Racial Trait: Claw Attacks
Lawful Nuetral
Init +7 ; Senses low-light vision,Perception +20
DEFENSE
--------------
AC 29, touch 24, flat-footed 22 (+5 armor, +2 deflection, +7 dex, +5 wis)
hp 81
Fort +7, Ref +16, Will +7; +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities evasion
OFFENSE
--------------
Speed 50 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +18/+18/+13 (1d8+9) or bite +13 (1d3+2), 2 claws +13 (1d3+2)
Full Attack(Flanking Precise Strike, Flurry of Blows, Ki Flurry, Nonlethal) Unarmed Strike +20/+20/+20/+15 (1d8+21+6d6+1d6)
Special Attacks flurry of blows, scout's charge, sneak attack +3d6, stunning fist (10/day, DC 19), style strike
Monk Spell-Like Abilities
-barkskin (self only, 1 ki)
STATISTICS
-----------------
Str 10, Dex 24, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 7
Base Atk +9; CMB +9; CMD 33
Feats Combat Expertise, Deflect Arrows, Feinting Flurry, Horn of the Criosphinx, Improved Feinting Flurry, Improved Unarmed Strike, Ki Diversity (dim Mak), Precise Strike, Sap Adept, Sap Master, Skill Focus (Sense Motive), Snake Style, Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse
Traits Clever Wordplay (Bluff) , Mutant Eye
Skills Acrobatics +11 (+19 to jump), Bluff +16, Climb +4, Diplomacy +2, Disable Device +25, Escape Artist +21, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Linguistics +20, Perception +20, Sense Motive +30, Sleight of Hand +11, Stealth +23
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Azlanti, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Hallit, Hwan, Ignan, Infernal, Kelish, Minkaian, Orc, Osiriani, Samsaran, Shoanti, Tengu, Terran, Thassilonian, Tien, Varisian, Vudrani
SQ Debilitating Injury, Ki Pool (7), Ki Powers (Elemental Fury, Barkskin), Style Strike (spin kick), Trance (tiger trance,8 rounds/day)
Other Gear +2 amulet of mighty fists, belt of incredible dexterity +4, bracers of armor +5 , cracked magenta prism ioun stone, headband of mental prowess +2 (Int, Wis), muleback cords, ring of protection +2
So there are a lot of things going on here. The premise of my character is that he uses violence only as a last resort, and prefers to deal nonlethal damage instead of slaying creatures outright (although he realizes that sometimes it is necessary).
I can use the skill unlock for Sense Motive (at a +30) to boost my order in the initiative round. Also I know 26 Languages...
If he is flanking and using ki flurry, he can get 4 attacks (3 at highest BAB) doing an average of 151 damage if it hits with all 4 attacks. The debilitating injuries should also make it much easier to hit with last attack. If not flanking, Spin Kick allows me to get Sneak attack on first attack of flurry no matter what. Can also choose replace one of my Flurry attacks with Feint using Improved Feinting Flurry to get sneak attack for rest of round.
Snake Style is great if I'm getting hit hard by the enemy or don't need to use (or dont have) the extra Ki on my turn for other abilities. Snake Style can give me an average AC of 40 for 1 attack per round. Can also use Combat Expertise and/or Barkskin to self boost normal AC to 34 if need be.
Scout Charge allows me to deal sneak attack on a charge. This combined with Tiger Trance basically allows me to Pounce on a charge, taking a full attack with sneak attack on the target. Horn of the Criosphinx allows me to add 2x my Dex to damage on charge instead of 1x.
All in all I think it is a great build. Would love to hear your ideas/advice/comments and see builds of your own that you might have! Thanks!
|
|
How does Horn of the Criosphinx let you use 2x your DEX on a charge? It says it's 2x STR on charge attacks...
If I was playing a Tengu Monk of any kind, I'd look very hard at getting the Blade of the Sword-Saint, it's just oozes cool Tengu Monk bad-aszzness
I apply dex in place of strength on attacks, therefore if an effect causes me to apply 2x str, I apply 2x dex instead. Same as if I weild a weapon 2 handed you normally add 1 1/2 str mod. With elven curve blade and finesse training I'd add 1 1/2 my dex mod. Pretty sure it's the same concept.
|
|
I don't think that the weapon finesse allows for 1½ dex on the elven curve blade, otherwise it would be more powerful for dex based classes to dip 3 levels rogue instead of getting an agile weapon, as the agile proberty doesn't increase for 2 handed weapons but still reduces for off hand attacks.
Also the feat Horn of the Criosphinx only apply to charging with a two handed weapon with both hands, and I don't see any on you.
The sap master only works when the target is flat-footed so you wont see use of this after the suprise/first round, and feinting flurry sacrifices your first attack.
|
|
I don't think that the weapon finesse allows for 1½ dex on the elven curve blade, otherwise it would be more powerful for dex based classes to dip 3 levels rogue instead of getting an agile weapon, as the agile proberty doesn't increase for 2 handed weapons but still reduces for off hand attacks.
Also the feat Horn of the Criosphinx only apply to charging with a two handed weapon with both hands, and I don't see any on you.
The sap master only works when the target is flat-footed so you wont see use of this after the suprise/first round, and feinting flurry sacrifices your first attack.
Horn of the Criosphinx works for monks unarmed
Whenever you make a successful charge attack while wielding a two-handed weapon in both hands, add two times your Strength bonus to the damage roll.
Normal: A character wielding a two-handed weapon adds 1-1/2 times her Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Special: A monk can use this feat as long as he is wielding a two-handed weapon or both his hands are empty.
I will also always get at least one attack against flat footed ac due to the spin kick ki power. And sure, feinting flurry sacrifices first attack, but its worth it to get 3 more sneak attack hits in when I'm not flanking.
Nope not at all. You have to have a Rule/Feat written that way in order to gain that. Absolutely nothing in PFS will work based off presumptions to the effect you would like. PFS requires you to have all the books for your character or you can't use the abilities you have, also it needs to be written exactly in a book somewhere or FAQ in order to gain the effects, and the effects gained are Exactly how it's written in the book/FAQ no more, no less.
How long have you been playing in PFS?
I've been playing PFS specifically for about 3 years now. And I disagree completely.
In addition, starting at 3rd level,
she can select any one type of weapon that can be used with
Weapon Finesse (such as rapiers or daggers). Once this
choice is made, it cannot be changed. Whenever she makes
a successful melee attack with the selected weapon, she adds
her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier
to the damage roll. If any effect would prevent the rogue
from adding her Strength modifier to the damage roll, she
does not add her Dexterity modifier.
It's a replacement effect. Dex INSTEAD of Strength. I am reading it exactly as written. That means if I would add 1/2 my strength then I would add 1/2 my dex instead (which is why a rouge doesn't get full dex damage on off attack when two-weapon fighting with her finesse weapon). The same applies when two-handing and adding 1 1/2 times strength. You can't compare Agile with Finesse Training either to prove your point. One is a weapon property, the other is a class ability. They have two different text rules and neither mentions the other. Just because something doesn't work on one does not mean it doesn't work on the other. Please explain how the text ruling itself in weapon finesse (or sight an FAQ) stops you from using 1 1/2 times dex? How would you account for two-weapon fighting and off hand damage with your finesse weapon?
That's like trying to get power attack or dragon style to apply to Dex. Doesn't work that way in PFS. Read as written.
By the way you can use power attack with a Dex build. As long as you meet prerequisite of Str 13. It is a minus to attack for a plus to damage. Says nothing about having to have a strength build.
You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
|
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2.
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +6 or monk level 6th.
Benefit(s): Whenever you make a successful charge attack while wielding a two-handed weapon in both hands, add two times your Strength bonus to the damage roll.
Normal: A character wielding a two-handed weapon adds 1-1/2 times her Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Special: A monk can use this feat as long as he is wielding a two-handed weapon or both his hands are empty.
Note: A monk can take any of these feats as bonus feats at the indicated levels. To benefit from the feats, monks must have both hands free and capable of delivering an unarmed strike.
Just cause you have an ability that adds Dex to damage does NOT mean it replaces the words STR in all feats you take.
I apply dex in place of strength on attacks, therefore if an effect causes me to apply 2x str, I apply 2x dex instead. Same as if I wield a weapon 2 handed you normally add 1 1/2 str mod. With elven curve blade and finesse training I'd add 1 1/2 my dex mod. Pretty sure it's the same concept.
No it isn't.
You just get dex to damage...going 2 handed does not give you 1 1/2 Dex to damage either. No where in the Rules is it written to do so. When it comes to Feats and ABilities it is Read as Written. Every feat that says STR to damage is using STR...and if you have no STR then it is a wasted feat. Sorry but rules are rules.
I apply dex in place of strength on attacks, therefore if an effect causes me to apply 2x str, I apply 2x dex instead. Same as if I weild a weapon 2 handed you normally add 1 1/2 str mod. With elven curve blade and finesse training I'd add 1 1/2 my dex mod. Pretty sure it's the same concept.How does Horn of the Criosphinx let you use 2x your DEX on a charge? It says it's 2x STR on charge attacks...
If I was playing a Tengu Monk of any kind, I'd look very hard at getting the Blade of the Sword-Saint, it's just oozes cool Tengu Monk bad-aszzness
Nope not at all. You have to have a Rule/Feat written that way in order to gain that. Absolutely nothing in PFS will work based off presumptions to the effect you would like. PFS requires you to have all the books for your character or you can't use the abilities you have, also it needs to be written exactly in a book somewhere or FAQ in order to gain the effects, and the effects gained are Exactly how it's written in the book/FAQ no more, no less.
How long have you been playing in PFS?
That response's attitude puts a sour taste in my mouth and is the predominant reason why I tell people who invite me to PFS games to go away. I don't need that 'L2P you F*ckn NOOB' attitude in my games.
That said, there's a grain of your statement I agree with you on. You should always be able to validate your character's abilities. Nebulousness can lead to lost game time while someone has to look up a rule you guessed on or your whole build can be invalidated if you didn't understand the mechanic you were basing it on.
Though to be fair, I would only insist that *someone* at the table either have the book or have the PDF on a tablet that can be quickly scanned if it becomes an issue.
|
|
First of all you're wrong on getting to sub out Dex for Str and have any feat that benefits STR like Power Attack wielded 2handed or Horn of Criosphinx work for DEX in the same way. IT doesn't work like that for PFS.
Why don't you for fun, post that question in the Rules Question forum and see what you get? Make sure to let them know its for your PFS character.
You were also wrong earlier on Vital Striking on a Charge.
Back to Dex again, The rules have to be written somewhere for you to be able to do this, and there isn't any. Your interpretation is just an assumption that a "replacement effect" will do this and its not a Clear Cut thing. If you were to get DEX to damage for other effects like Power Attacking 2 handed or with things like Horn of the Criosphinx and other feats, They would've written more along the likes of "She adds her DEX mod instead of her STR mod to the damage roll, and 1/2 times her DEX mod when using a weapon in 2 hands or on other feats/effects that allow STR damage multipliers." It doesn't clearly say that. You're making assumptions on how you want it to work.
I also know of no rule that doesn't allow you to get full DEX with an off hand weapon though. It makes sense you couldn't but I've not seen one that specifically states you can't.
Two weapon fighting and using Weapon Finesse still requires you to use your STR for damage and any other Weapon Finessing fighting still requires you do use STR for damage. The new Unchained Rogue can get DEX to damage yes, but nothing else from 2 handing a weapon. Fencing Grace and Slashing Grace and the Dervish stuff with a Scimitar also, like the unchained Rogue allow DEX to damage. There never has been a way to add more than your basic DEX mod to damage like STR mods do with 2 handing or Power Attacking or Horn of Crio.
Sorry but I respectfully disagree with most of what you said. I guess we will have to wait for an FAQ or errata. Until then, GMs at the table will have to rule individually.
|
|
Advice:
Since Tiger Trance require you to make a CMB check before you can charge you might want to consider getting agile maneuver so you can add your dex also, can be diffecult to beat creatures CMD with only a +9.
Weapon finesse only helps on your CMB with Disarm, Trip and Sunder.
Dex instead of Str:
By raw the finesse training replaces your str modifier with dex modifier, as a result you should expect very variable tabel rulings, many would call it to not work on feats like Dragon Style and Double Slice because the feats call for str bonus while your ability calls modifier and by raw they are different enough for most to rule against it.
|
|
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2.
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +6 or monk level 6th.
Benefit(s): Whenever you make a successful charge attack while wielding a two-handed weapon in both hands, add two times your Strength bonus to the damage roll.
Normal: A character wielding a two-handed weapon adds 1-1/2 times her Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Special: A monk can use this feat as long as he is wielding a two-handed weapon or both his hands are empty.
Note: A monk can take any of these feats as bonus feats at the indicated levels. To benefit from the feats, monks must have both hands free and capable of delivering an unarmed strike.
Just cause you have an ability that adds Dex to damage does NOT mean it replaces the words STR in all feats you take.
I apply dex in place of strength on attacks, therefore if an effect causes me to apply 2x str, I apply 2x dex instead. Same as if I wield a weapon 2 handed you normally add 1 1/2 str mod. With elven curve blade and finesse training I'd add 1 1/2 my dex mod. Pretty sure it's the same...
Its Official
Yeah that FAQ says horn of the crypsphynx is not working there, since it would increase the multiplier.
|
|
Nice that they made that clarification FAQ yesterday...but at original post it was still unclarified....But Yes you lose the Horn Feat.
However, any other effects that would increase the multiplier to your Strength bonus on damage rolls (such as the two-handed fighter archetype's overhand chop) do not affect your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls.
You could bump the Str to 13 to get Power Attack but Horn and Dragon Style Feats still apply only to Str Builds since they increase the multiplier to the STR bonus on Damage rolls.
|
|
Nice that they made that clarification FAQ yesterday...but at original post it was still unclarified....But Yes you lose the Horn Feat.
However, any other effects that would increase the multiplier to your Strength bonus on damage rolls (such as the two-handed fighter archetype's overhand chop) do not affect your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls.You could bump the Str to 13 to get Power Attack but Horn and Dragon Style Feats still apply only to Str Builds since they increase the multiplier to the STR bonus on Damage rolls.
Yeah I'm going to drop the Horn feat, it was a bonus monk feat anyway. I'll see what else I can grab instead.