Just to make sure, Occult Weapon can only be used as a Vestigial Boon / Companion replacement right?
Yes. Isn't that what it says?
Also, any chance in one of the new chapters that we'll get some info on the Tartarus that Tartarus the spirit sends others to? Like, what it's like in your version of it? is it possible to escape? If so, how? If not, why?
Tartarus is on the fringe of being included; it depends on how much planes / city stuff Dario gets done. You might say that its on the bottom of the priority list, but nevertheless it IS on the list. If we don't talk about it here, I WILL find someplace to talk about it.
Tartarus is on the fringe of being included; it depends on how much planes / city stuff Dario gets done. You might say that its on the bottom of the priority list, but nevertheless it IS on the list. If we don't talk about it here, I WILL find someplace to talk about it.
Sweet. Thanks!
Double Occult Weapon Questions:
I don't remember these being addressed before, but please forgive me if I am wrong:
- Can the occultist select different properties for each of her weapons or do they both have the same properties?
- When granting properties to the weapons, is it 1 swift action for each weapon or is it 1 swift action for both weapons at the same time?
- Does the occultist still gain the bound spirit's granted abilities as long as she has at least one weapon or does she have to have both? If the former, it would also make Double Occult Weapon a good backup secret for those weapon-based pact magic classes afraid of losing their granted abilities on a disarm.
For Achaelous' Reckless Charge, the capstone empowerment doesn't mention a maximum increase for its bonus on damage rolls, unlike the bonus to attack rolls and penalty to AC. Is this intentional, or should the maximum increase still apply?
Updated to the following:
"In addition to its usual benefits, reckless charge grants you gain a bonus on damage rolls on the first attack that you make during your charge equal to the bonus on attack rolls that reckless charge grants you."
For Vishgurv's Slime Slap, I'm a little confused as to what the Fortitude save applies to. Does the Fortitude save prevent the staggered condition and prevent the target from gaining the disease, or is the Fortitude save only to avoid Constitution damage every minute its body isn't kept moist, with being staggered for one round and gaining the disease having no save if the melee touch attack hits?
Update to both abilities to make them a bit more in-line with a 1st-level spirit.
Slime Slap: You coat your hands with an aberrant slime and attack a target with it as a standard action. If you hit the target with a melee touch attack, it must succeed on a Fortitude save or become staggered for 1 round and unable to retain water within its skin, causing it to dry and crack indefinitely. If the target spends more than one day without fully submerging itself in water, it takes 1d2 points of Constitution damage each hour. A Fortitude save negates this Constitution damage. This condition is permanent, but it can be removed by remove disease (DC 10 + half your binder level + your Charisma modifier). After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds.
Capstone Empowerment: The condition created by your slime slap becomes more severe, causing an affected target’s skin begins to dry out more rapidly. A target that spends more than one hour without fully submerging itself in water begins to take Constitution damage, as described by the ability.
For Ma'Zad's Preemptive strike, how often does it trigger? Does 'first' mean the first attack per round? Per battle? Per day/binding?
Each round. Its sort of like the opportunist rogue talent, except its when YOU get hit rather than opponent.
For Damian Darkstar's personality influence, when it says "you cling desperately to your friends", does this mean you're just clingy and overprotective, or - presuming you consider anyone in the party a friend - are you obligated to essentially have them grappled at all times, even in combat?
Not physically, emotionally. You're over protective of them.
Update:
"You cling desperately to the companionship of your friends and allies."
Ok. So, for the Son of Dobb, under his Twice Blessed major ability, it says "Whenever you roll a d20, you roll 1d6 and add the result to your d20 roll after the results are revealed as an immediate action..."
Now, it's probably just me, but it sort of reads like you automatically use this ability since it's missing "can". Perhaps: "Whenever you roll a d20, you can choose to roll 1d6 and add the result to your d20 roll after the results are revealed as an immediate action.
Yes. Add the word "can" between "you" and "roll."
For Son of Dobb's Stone Step ability, does one use the duration of Meld into Stone.
Yes. I'm going to fiddle with the rules text to make it clearer.
An additional note: Reserve Spirit says on Table 2-1 that has binder level 6th as a prerequisite, but the feat itself says binder level 5th.
Weird case where the table is right, but also wrong.
In Vol 2, the feat was placed at 6th level because occultists got a bonus feat at 6th level, so it was sort of a requirement that only the occultist could meet at that precise level. But I reduced the prerequisite to 5th level in the Grimoire because occultists don't get a bonus feat at 6th level anymore.
So 5th level is correct; 6th level was the old prerequisite.
- Can the occultist select different properties for each of her weapons or do they both have the same properties?
Yes and no. Its supposed to work like the Dual Enhancement feat (Advanced Class Guide) and has been updated accordingly.
So, for example, let's say our occultist can add up to +2 to a weapon. Using double weapon, if she picks an enhancement bonus, that bonus is applied equally to both weapons without "doubling its cost," so adding +1 to two weapons only counts as +1 towards her total occult weapon ability. But if she decides to add a special weapon ability, that ability only applies to one weapon and isn't doubled accordingly.
So, for instance, an occultist capable of adding a +2 enhancement can add +2 to both ends of a quarterstaff, or +1 to one end and +1 flaming to the other. Flaming counts as +1 per weapon its on while the bonus is freely applied to both weapons.
Make sense?
- When granting properties to the weapons, is it 1 swift action for each weapon or is it 1 swift action for both weapons at the same time?
1 swift enhances both weapons.
- Does the occultist still gain the bound spirit's granted abilities as long as she has at least one weapon or does she have to have both? If the former, it would also make Double Occult Weapon a good backup secret for those weapon-based pact magic classes afraid of losing their granted abilities on a disarm.
I don't understand this question.
Yes and no. Its supposed to work like the Dual Enhancement feat (Advanced Class Guide) and has been updated accordingly.So, for example, let's say our occultist can add up to +2 to a weapon. Using double weapon, if she picks an enhancement bonus, that bonus is applied equally to both weapons without "doubling its cost," so adding +1 to two weapons only counts as +1 towards her total occult weapon ability. But if she decides to add a special weapon ability, that ability only applies to one weapon and isn't doubled accordingly.
So, for instance, an occultist capable of adding a +2 enhancement can add +2 to both ends of a quarterstaff, or +1 to one end and +1 flaming to the other. Flaming counts as +1 per weapon its on while the bonus is freely applied to both weapons.
Make sense?
Yes, thank you.
I don't understand this question.
My apologies--you can ignore this question--I was still thinking of the previous version of Occult Weapon where the occultist had to be wielding the weapon to gain any granted abilities and not the revised edition where it functions as a vestigial bond.
I am not part of the kickstarter, but please add support for:
-background generation from Ultimate Campaign
-simple class template for monsters in Monster Codex
-variant multiclassing from Pathfinder Unchained
-some Mythic support
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I am not part of the kickstarter, but please add support for:
-background generation from Ultimate Campaign
We did that in Volume 2, so it'll be returning in the Grimoire.
-simple class template for monsters in Monster Codex
This will not be included; we're saving it for the Weird Bestiary. In my opinion, it makes more sense to be in a monster book then in this book.
-variant multiclassing from Pathfinder Unchained
This will not be in the Grimoire of Lost Souls, but on July 15th I'm releasing an Everyman Gaming, LLC product called Everyman Unchained: Skills and Options. Everyman Unchained: Skills and Options will include Variant Multiclasses for the Technician (Age of Electrotech), the Mystic (Amora Game's LIC), and the Occultist (Grimoire version, but Volume 1 should be enough to use it).
In short, you will be able to have this before the Grimoire itself is released.
-some Mythic support
This will be in the Pact Magic book that we do after the Grimoire. I don't have a name for it yet, but it is going to focus heavily on alternate pact magic systems, including animism, possession pacts, and mythic rules for pact magic. Mythic was originally going to be in the Grimoire, but there simply wasn't enough room to do it justice here.
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Background generation has existed since Pact Magic Unbound: Volume 2, and is still in the Grimoire of Lost Soul's playtest. Alexander Augunas has already said he doesn't intend to include mythic support since relatively few people utilize mythic in the first place, and he doesn't like mythic much much in the first place.
I don't care much for mythic at the moment, true, but I certainly want to provide the option for mythic pact magic for people who do use the system. Despite my preferences, I feel that it is more important for a new system like Pact Magic to fit completely within the realm of what Paizo publishes to make it feel more inclusive to Pathfinder as a whole.
That's why you have spirits like Catha of Codex in the Grimoire, who play with the words of power rules. I don't use those rules in my games (and would likely trade that ability for her Vestigial Companion every time I bound her as a result), but I still like that the option is available within Pact Magic for people who don't share my opinion.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
oh I dont have either book, I only have the old ones and am waiting for the new book. I understand all and will buy the unchained book since I have Electrotech and plan to buy the Grimoire.
Hello.
Since my DM is allowing some changes to my character since the class is new to both of us and I'm trying to figure out what works for what I wanted, I've been looking over things. I'm still sort of stuck on the choice between Inquiry and Reserve Spirit. I already have Expel Spirits which, while not preferable to use due to the penalties, gives my character much needed flexibility / versatility.
The feat however, made me wonder; if it hasn't already been asked yet, can one expel a reserved spirit and bind a new reserve spirit? Would doing so essentially recharge your usable minutes for the reserve spirit if you bind a different one then the last? Or (if this even works) do you only have the amount of minutes left that you didn't spend with the last reserve spirit?
Also, any player insight / suggestions on the choice between inquiry and reserve spirit would be greatly welcomed. I love the divination aspect of inquiry and the bonus to the knowledge checks will eventually come in handy (maybe not right away as I have +16 to the checks at lv. 6), but reserve spirit seems like it can be extremely helpful in being more flexible and versatile and is less reliant on your DM not messing with you on the divination (i.e. giving you silly to useless answers on use).
Also, I'm more just curious, but with Forash is his being a lv. 1 spirit the reason he lost standard action summon nature's ally? I mean, standard action summon nature's ally, once every 5 rounds doesn't seem all that much when you look at a summoner (or wizard with a feat's) standard action summon monsters and could do it every round. Looking back at him now actually, Forash seems sort of weak over all.
With General Hessant's capstone, I'm a touch confused. Is it a second reflex save? Or is it if they fail the initial reflex save for the major? I'm guessing the former, but I just want to be sure.
For Gwenolyn's Ghost, Ghost Hand ability, since you can't bring solid objects grabbed by the ability through other solid objects, what's the difference between this and mage hand? If there is no difference, why the extra wording / mechanic? Can one not normally use mage hand on an object if they're say, looking through a window on the other side of a wall?
Also probably already mentioned but under Overwhelming Loss it says "You inflict your foes with a sense of overwhelming lost..." probably means loss.
Lastly, can you use Marat's Defend the Ward major to swap places with an ally that's being grappled? I think it'd be amazingly fun if you could. Just saying. "Ha! I've got the barkeep in my clutches! You wouldn't dare try to shoot me because you could hit him." *Switches places with Barkeep, glaring at him from inches away* "...Oh."
Sorry about all the late analysis and questions and such.
Since my DM is allowing some changes to my character since the class is new to both of us and I'm trying to figure out what works for what I wanted, I've been looking over things. I'm still sort of stuck on the choice between Inquiry and Reserve Spirit. I already have Expel Spirits which, while not preferable to use due to the penalties, gives my character much needed flexibility / versatility.
The feat however, made me wonder; if it hasn't already been asked yet, can one expel a reserved spirit and bind a new reserve spirit? Would doing so essentially recharge your usable minutes for the reserve spirit if you bind a different one then the last? Or (if this even works) do you only have the amount of minutes left that you didn't spend with the last reserve spirit?
Second sentence of the feat's second paragraph: "A reserved spirit cannot be expelled and a reserve spirit is always considered the lowest-level spirit that you are bound to regardless of its actual level when you are targeted by dismiss pact spirits† and similar effects."
So you cannot use Expel Spirit to get rid of a reserve spirit. Someone who casts dismiss pact spirits or banish pact spirits on you, however, can terminate your pact with a reserve spirit.
Before you plot to have a wizard cast dismiss pact spirits on you to recycle spirits, if your reserve spirit is ever exorcised, you cannot bind a pact with a new reserve spirit for 24 hours. So no, no reserve spirit cycling.
Also, any player insight / suggestions on the choice between inquiry and reserve spirit would be greatly welcomed. I love the divination aspect of inquiry and the bonus to the knowledge checks will eventually come in handy (maybe not right away as I have +16 to the checks at lv. 6), but reserve spirit seems like it can be extremely helpful in being more flexible and versatile and is less reliant on your DM not messing with you on the divination (i.e. giving you silly to useless answers on use).
In my experience, you're not thinking of an ability properly if you look at it and assume your GM is going to try to give you your comeuppance when you use it. The point of the game is to work together to tell a story, so if your GM isn't going to use your awesomely flavorful ability to help move the story along, then he's not a particularly strong GM to begin with.
Personally, I would kill a PC (and have done so) for the chance to deliver plot to my PCs in such a neat, tidy package!
Also, I'm more just curious, but with Forash is his being a lv. 1 spirit the reason he lost standard action summon nature's ally? I mean, standard action summon nature's ally, once every 5 rounds doesn't seem all that much when you look at a summoner (or wizard with a feat's) standard action summon monsters and could do it every round. Looking back at him now actually, Forash seems sort of weak over all.
Forash didn't need to be better than the summoner at summoning.
With General Hessant's capstone, I'm a touch confused. Is it a second reflex save? Or is it if they fail the initial reflex save for the major? I'm guessing the former, but I just want to be sure.
The ability says, "In addition to." So if you have the capstone and an opponent fails its Reflex save against Hessant's punishment, it fails prone and become entangled at the same time.
For Gwenolyn's Ghost, Ghost Hand ability, since you can't bring solid objects grabbed by the ability through other solid objects, what's the difference between this and mage hand? If there is no difference, why the extra wording / mechanic? Can one not normally use mage hand on an object if they're say, looking through a window on the other side of a wall?
Mage hand can't normally move through objects as though it were incorporeal. That's unique to spectral hand, but spectral hand doesn't confer that ability to things it holds.
Lastly, can you use Marat's Defend the Ward major to swap places with an ally that's being grappled? I think it'd be amazingly fun if you could. Just saying. "Ha! I've got the barkeep in my clutches! You wouldn't dare try to shoot me because you could hit him." *Switches places with Barkeep, glaring at him from inches away* "...Oh."
I need to think about this. Probably worthy of an update to the ability, but Marat is REALLY pressed for space.
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Defend the Ward has had the following update:
"Defend the Ward: As a move action, you switch places with one ally within 30 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. If you target an ally that is being grappled, you become grappled instead. This ability is a teleportation effect. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds."
So basically, you teleport right into another creature's hands. (Or stomach, if its being swallowed whole.)
Defend the Ward has had the following update:
"Defend the Ward: As a move action, you switch places with one ally within 30 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. If you target an ally that is being grappled, you become grappled instead. This ability is a teleportation effect. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds."
So basically, you teleport right into another creature's hands. (Or stomach, if its being swallowed whole.)
This is awesome. I love it! haha.
Mage hand can't normally move through objects as though it were incorporeal. That's unique to spectral hand, but spectral hand doesn't confer that ability to things it holds.
Interesting. I'll have to look into example in differences. Thanks for the info.
The ability says, "In addition to." So if you have the capstone and an opponent fails its Reflex save against Hessant's punishment, it fails prone and become entangled at the same time.
Cool so one save. Missed the bit about in addition to I guess.
Forash didn't need to be better than the summoner at summoning.
And he still wouldn't be since the summoner can also gets the monsters per minute instead of round and can summon again the next round and the rounds after. Without standard summoning he's not on par with Occultist Arcanists, a Wizard with Academae Graduate or Shaman Druids with Totemic summons either really. That all said (and probably more biting then intending), I'm fine with Forash doing full-round summoning. I'll just have to change my character's backstory a bit haha. Probably take Forash out of my spirits known and replace him if my DM's ok with it.
In my experience, you're not thinking of an ability properly if you look at it and assume your GM is going to try to give you your comeuppance when you use it. The point of the game is to work together to tell a story, so if your GM isn't going to use your awesomely flavorful ability to help move the story along, then he's not a particularly strong GM to begin with.
Personally, I would kill a PC (and have done so) for the chance to deliver plot to my PCs in such a neat, tidy package!
I've tried it a few times in game and out of the times I rolled well enough for it to work (which was most times) I usually got short answers. I was expecting vague or cryptic, that just comes with the spell naturally and he gave me that. So, maybe it's just the questions I was asking didn't matter to the story over all at that point.
Second sentence of the feat's second paragraph: "A reserved spirit cannot be expelled and a reserve spirit is always considered the lowest-level spirit that you are bound to regardless of its actual level when you are targeted by dismiss pact spirits† and similar effects."
So you cannot use Expel Spirit to get rid of a reserve spirit. Someone who casts dismiss pact spirits or banish pact spirits on you, however, can terminate your pact with a reserve spirit.
Before you plot to have a wizard cast dismiss pact spirits on you to recycle spirits, if your reserve spirit is ever exorcised, you cannot bind a pact with a new reserve spirit for 24 hours. So no, no reserve spirit cycling.
Missed that part. My bad. Good to know though.
I'm going to do as you suggest Luthorne and chat with my DM. See if he has any intention or want on using it for game plot or making it usable. If not, I think it's an easy exchange for Reserve Spirit. Even if he said he doesn't intend it to be used for story or useful purposes, it could theoretically still be useful for the knowledge bonuses, even though they're just once a day. I mean, with my knowledge bonuses as they are and the +5 from inquiry, I'd need only roll a 8 or higher if I'm trying to learn lv. 4 spirits. I could probably take 10 on those too, unless I'm missing an area that says I can't on these types of rolls.
Anyways, thanks everyone for the input and info. Been quite helpful. Again, love the addition to Defend the Ward though. That's going to be fun if and/or when it comes up.
So, I was reading the interview for the Legendary Planet AP, and first I saw the phrase "Occult magic", and then the name "Alexander Augunas"... is there some connection here that the backers of Pact Magic might be interested in?
So, I was reading the interview for the Legendary Planet AP, and first I saw the phrase "Occult magic", and then the name "Alexander Augunas"... is there some connection here that the backers of Pact Magic might be interested in?
I assume that "occult magic" refers to the psychic magic system from Occult Adventures. In a post-Occult Adventures world, you're going to hear me referring mostly to "occult spirits" and "pact magic" rather than occult magic.
So no, Legendary Planets isn't going to have Pact Magic.
Yet.
If you REALLY want to see alien spirits in Legendary Worlds, make sure you let Neil Splicer and Jason Nelson know. I'm not sure how much they even know about the Pact Magic stuff; we talked a lot about lots of stuff at PaizoCon, but pact magic wasn't one of our covered topics. They were sort of walking on sunshine. ;-)
I've talked it over with my DM and while he said that he thinks Inquiry beings less useful was a mixture of problems between us (me asking the wrong questions, him and I both being new to using the spell divination) that he thinks with some practice we could make it fun. That said, he wouldn't have a problem if I exchanged it for something like reserve spirit via the secret that allows an occult feat.
So, that being the case, that's exactly what I think I'm going to do. Now, I know this was two pages back:
Question for everyone:
What spirits do you guys feel are the most useful when combined with reserve spirit? I know Ubro is a good choice but I intend to go into Mascareri in the game I'm currently in so I want to figure out some reserve spirit shenanigans to go with the spiritbound masks.
But, since I'm going to be switching over, allow me to try and answer this even though its like a month or so old... I'm only going to go up to lv. 4 spirits though due to time.
Aza'Zati - Aza'zati gives you an acid attack as needed, swim speed as needed, and hey, you can smell nearby gold. The acid is actually good, considering one never knows when they'll run into a troll. If you manage to sneak up on them, having Aza in reserve would be quite helpful.
Verbose - This is one that could be a good reserve if you know you're going to be going to a ball, party or other social event. Say you arrive at the party and find that certain people are speaking a language you prepared with Verbose (or maybe they have a pet raven, dog, whatevs) and you could chat with them, maybe even gain some information. Problem is you have to choose upon binding, but you could bind the reserve at the party somewhere if you find the time.
Ubro - For obvious reasons.
Imitreyes - Now, this is a good one to reserve if you think you'll be interrogating that day. Telepathy and suggestion when needed can be quite good. Since suggestion is only once per person per day, I feel it can work for either a normal pact or a reserve pact.
Pevwryn Pervon - Suddenly find yourself in need of a second lv. or lower extract? Or the ability to shoot ice instead of fire? Or some obscure knowledge skills you didn't choose? Or resistance to flame? He's a solid one to pick as reserve.
Saelendrios - This one you have to have more foreknowledge about things, but if you know you may be facing a caster or two and can pull up your reserve just before the battle, this guy could come in handy. Not to mention some solid offense added to your repertoire.
Forty-Two - Find yourself in need of some Augery? Here's your man / robot thingy. You get a bonus to intelligence to boot and if you happen to come across some constructs, hey, even better.
Muse Istago - Mostly for his stat bumping ability really. The illusions and bump to perception and sense motive could come in handy too. Don't think one could use his scrying ability though.
Xalen D'Marek - For when you need to know something suddenly or find a particular book / scroll that you've seen before. Sort of iffy on this one really though.
Fey Barradu - Obviously he's a good normal bind, but if you don't want to bind that way, he'd make a solid reserve too. Being able to turn into animals has many different possibilities. That with woodland stride makes him good pick.
Hexus - Bestow Curse mostly. That stuff sticks forever on a failed save. The rest of his abilities mostly work well with reserve too, although he's another solid normal binding.
Kami Onmyoji - Fast healing and divination make him a decent pick. As I've seen divination can be iffy though, but fast healing... is not iffy.
Loh'Moi - Teleporter on a reserve stick. I like him as a normal too, but yeah... BAMF!
Anywho, those are my thoughts currently for that.
How do abilities like Muse Istago's scrying ability work? I assume they just don't since it goes past the minutes mark, but I'd like to make sure.
That said, I realize it'd probably make it too nice, but any chance we could get Verbose's major to work off of Bluff instead of Stealth? It seems to fit more flavor wise and thematically, what with her never stopping her talking and there being no showing of her being stealthy / sneaky at all in her mini-bio.
So, that being the case, that's exactly what I think I'm going to do. Now, I know this was two pages back:
But, since I'm going to be switching over, allow me to try and answer this even though its like a month or so old... I'm only going to go up to lv. 4 spirits though due to time.Question for everyone:
What spirits do you guys feel are the most useful when combined with reserve spirit? I know Ubro is a good choice but I intend to go into Mascareri in the game I'm currently in so I want to figure out some reserve spirit shenanigans to go with the spiritbound masks.
The only thing to keep in mind here is that you use a Reserve Spirit in 1-minute increments, minimum of 1 minute. This means that you can use the Major Granted Ability twice (maybe once, see the question below) if you use it within the first few rounds of switching.
The other thing to keep in mind is that your Reserve Spirit's effects are suppressed when it is suppressed, minimizing the effectiveness of any long duration granted abilities (again, see below). Although this does bring up a few questions centered around suppression:
From the Key Terms for Pact Magic sidebar:
Suppress: Removing all benefits (but not penalties) of being bound to a spirit. A suppressed granted ability cannot be activated and does not provide its benefits to the binder. A suppressed spirit provides none of the benefits of its granted abilities to the binder. A suppressed major granted ability is considered expended for the purposes of all abilities. A suppressed vestigial companion disappears, causing any equipment given to it to fall to the ground in its space.
Key here is that it does not specify that the effects end, just that the binder does not receive any of the benefits.
Q: While suppressed, does a granted ability's spell-like abilities with an independent duration end completely? For example, N'alyia's mesmerize[i], which acts as [i]charm person?
Q: If Major Granted Abilities are considered expended for all abilities, when I first activate my Reserve Spirit do I need to wait 5 rounds until I can use the major ability?
The only thing to keep in mind here is that you use a Reserve Spirit in 1-minute increments, minimum of 1 minute. This means that you can use the Major Granted Ability twice (maybe once, see the question below) if you use it within the first few rounds of switching.
Very true. I tried to pick ones that were mostly geared more towards utility then combat (not all I listed are of course). Some of them do of course have the longer than minute abilities though.
I'm interested in your questions as well.
Q: While suppressed, does a granted ability's spell-like abilities with an independent duration end completely? For example, N'alyia's mesmerize[i], which acts as [i]charm person?
Yes. [Included in an Update]
"Suppress: Removing all benefits (but not penalties) of being bound to a spirit. A suppressed granted ability cannot be activated and provides no benefits to a binder. Any effects created by a suppressed granted ability immediately end when it becomes suppressed. A suppressed major granted ability is considered expended for the purposes of all abilities. A suppressed vestigial companion disappears, causing any equipment given to it to fall to the ground in its space."
Q: If Major Granted Abilities are considered expended for all abilities, when I first activate my Reserve Spirit do I need to wait 5 rounds until I can use the major ability?
No. The 5 rounds duration is a direct consequence of using the major granted ability; it isn't standard for all effects that expend major granted abilities. When a major granted ability is expended because it is being suppressed, it immediately becomes unexpended as soon as the suppression effect ends.
That said, if you use a major granted ability, suppress it, and then unsurpassed it before 5 rounds are up (or 4 if you have Rapid Recovery), the major granted ability will still be suppressed because the suppression doesn't override the use-based expenditure.
Adding this to the end of the Major Granted Ability section in Chapter 3 to clarify this. Is this worded well enough, or is it confusing?
"Multiple effects that expend a major granted ability do not stack; use the longer duration when determining how long a major granted ability is expended for."
Q: While suppressed, does a granted ability's spell-like abilities with an independent duration end completely? For example, N'alyia's mesmerize, which acts as charm person?"Suppress: Removing all benefits (but not penalties) of being bound to a spirit. A suppressed granted ability cannot be activated and provides no benefits to a binder. Any effects created by a suppressed granted ability immediately end when it becomes suppressed. A suppressed major granted ability is considered expended for the purposes of all abilities. A suppressed vestigial companion disappears, causing any equipment given to it to fall to the ground in its space."
Thank you for the clarification and the revision is clear as well.
Q: If Major Granted Abilities are considered expended for all abilities, when I first activate my Reserve Spirit do I need to wait 5 rounds until I can use the major ability?No. The 5 rounds duration is a direct consequence of using the major granted ability; it isn't standard for all effects that expend major granted abilities. When a major granted ability is expended because it is being suppressed, it immediately becomes unexpended as soon as the suppression effect ends.
That said, if you use a major granted ability, suppress it, and then unsurpassed it before 5 rounds are up (or 4 if you have Rapid Recovery), the major granted ability will still be suppressed because the suppression doesn't override the use-based expenditure.
Adding this to the end of the Major Granted Ability section in Chapter 3 to clarify this. Is this worded well enough, or is it confusing?
"Multiple effects that expend a major granted ability do not stack; use the longer duration when determining how long a major granted ability is expended for."
I think the above may be a bit confusing--an ability can't be expended more than once that I am aware of. I think clarifying the suppression effect in regards to an already expended ability may clear things up across the board:
A suppressed major granted ability is considered expended for the purposes of all abilities, and an expended major granted ability that is suppressed retains its remaining expended rounds when unsuppressed.
I think that would make it easier to understand for Reserve Spirit's "positive" suppression as well as other "negative" suppression effects, like dismiss pact spirits. This would also make it more simple as your cooldown for an expended major ability doesn't start again until unsuppressed.
I have a Pactsworn Champion in my game who is really enjoying Pact Magic, especially role-playing the personality influences and making the other PCs wonder what's going on (they're on their way to a scholar who will reveal some of the basics of the lost art of Pact Magic).
There are some Binder Secrets that really fit the idea of his character, namely Occult Weapon and Vestigial Protection, but his archetype has no access to binder secrets.
I have it currently house-ruled that he can take Extra Binder Secret (by substituting "Able to bind spirits" as the prerequisite); this prevents him from taking anything that has an Occultist level prerequisite but allows him to take the aforementioned secrets at the cost of a feat (and with me allowing the given secret). This also allows me to test the balance of granting him access to these secrets.
Some of the binder secrets (the above two, for example) seem like they would fit any of the pact magic archetypes that currently do not have access to binder secrets: Barbarian, Cavalier, Cleric, Druid, Gunslinger, Oracle, Paladin, Ranger, Skald, Slayer, Sorcerer, Swashbuckler, Warpriest, and Wizard.
Since they replace the vestigial bond of the bound spirit, it is always a trade-off and not a pure "bonus" binder secret (like Bountiful Abilities or Revelation of Brilliance) and is why I've allowed it in my game.
If Occult Weapon (and Double Occult Weapon) and Vestigial Protection were made feats, this would make them similar to Expel Spirits (a ritual) and Reserve Spirit (also a ritual) and be beneficial to all pact magic archetypes without altering which classes gain access to binder secrets. This could also apply to Unbarred, as gaining access to a constellation (at half-binder level for binding checks) at the cost of a feat would make it accessible to all the archetypes.
I may be in a one-off situation in my game in which a house-rule is the way to go.
What I proposed above, have any of you seen/experienced where having those secrets as feats would be better?
I'm guessing that he didn't take the cavalier order than gives you Vestigial Protection as a bonus feat, then?
I'm guessing that he didn't take the cavalier order than gives you Vestigial Protection as a bonus feat, then?
He's a Pactsworn Champion, the Paladin archetype.
He did look at Pactsworn Knight when deciding what character to play but liked the flavor of the Pactsworn Champion's Righteous Binding more than the Order of the Occult Eye/Pactsworn Knight flavor as it fit his character concept better.
Not that it matters at this stage, since we're fairly deep into it and are down to very minor adjustments and all, but, next Saturday the 18th I'm finally going to be able to get to play more of my occultist. While my results will have to be taken with a grain of salt due to my character having died and came back a vampire (thus effecting how the class will play), I'll give a rundown on what happened probably the Sunday after. If only for the fun of it.
As for the secrets and feats question brought up, since I've only played the occultist, I've not really come across this problem. For me at least, it seems like they're in the right "spots" so to speak.
Not that it matters at this stage, since we're fairly deep into it and are down to very minor adjustments and all, but, next Saturday the 18th I'm finally going to be able to get to play more of my occultist. While my results will have to be taken with a grain of salt due to my character having died and came back a vampire (thus effecting how the class will play), I'll give a rundown on what happened probably the Sunday after. If only for the fun of it.
Looking forward to hearing about it!
As for the secrets and feats question brought up, since I've only played the occultist, I've not really come across this problem. For me at least, it seems like they're in the right "spots" so to speak.
Yeah, I only play a pure Occultist, so I've not run into it either. It's when I started GMing with a Pactsworn Champion that this came up--before then I hadn't even considered it. Building some test archetype classes of the ones mentioned above I can see how access to those secrets would be beneficial, but I haven't been able to play test any of them in a real group yet.
Alexander, I just wanted to mention how great the artwork is you've been showing us for the book--the pieces really fit the feel of the occult and I'm impressed with all the artists thus far!
Hey all, in preparations for my upcoming game and all the art for the book coming out, I decided to draw out and color what my character sort of looks like. I made it mostly to show the other gamers (we play online, and this will be the first time they see him or other player characters for that matter). The campaign is modern (think dresden) in setting.
His name is Oliver Oath. Well... actually if you look at the earthbreaker he's holding, you'll notice "O4" engraved into the head of it, which actually stands for his full name: Oliver Osiris Octavius Oath. Obviously this is a picture of his human form and what the illusion he'd use as a vrykolakas looks like.
Forgive the odd outlining. Originally I tend to draw in a faded red when I draw digitally, and I decided to convert it over to black lines after the fact in the photoshops. Anyways, I can't wait to try out more spirits and see how they work in play. I know I'm going to give Sybee a run, and Ubro my first (reserved spirit) run as well. Hopefully I'll get to try out Verbose (so I can tell if her main is actually useful in general, or must be sort of planned around to be useful) and some others outside of those I've used so far.
I feel like this book is going to be hella solid when it's officially released though. I might even write up a "Guide to Occultists" like the other guides.
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My latest session:
After spending a bit getting the team together, I bound Coralene and Sybee with Ubro as a reserve. We head out and find that we have to protect an old man whose car is being rammed by a Kyton evangelist and a crazy mage lady with their truck. Knowing we'd be facing something demonic, I decided on Coralene using Occult Weapon to replace her command ability as I wasn't sure at the time if devil's can be commanded (or at least my character wasn't sure).
I was riding shotgun in a car with another team member at the time and we were in the car stopped when all this went down (nearly crashing ourselves). I used her teleport ability to hop out of the car, and attack the windshield of the driver aka, the kyton, and apparently missed. I get temporarily grappled, but released after the kyton is attacked by other members. Mage girl causes an AOO and gets an earth breaker to the face, before shooting me in the stomach with some intense scorching ray. She dies pretty quickly from the rest of the party.
We then take our fight to the Kyton, who, thanks to Coralene gets its dr and regeneration bypassed by my now silver weapons. With some mighty hits (one by myself, gaining advantage from sneak attack given via constellation aspect) and clever (surprising and not sure legal but allowed by DM) use of an earth elemental, it dies. I use Ubro to heal the party up real quick.
After that, it was mostly just RP and social stuff, which, due to how it was set up, is the only place where Sybee actually came into use. I wanted to use her Fireball so much, but found the target we're supposed to protect too close to our enemies, so that never came up. I didn't really need to use the hex (chose fortune) and didn't really see myself stopping attacks to stand around and do either fortune or the others really. I probably should have just gone with tongues now that I think about it. Energy resistance (fire) would have been good for me to throw up before the fight in hindsight, but I've rarely had such chances to pre battle buff that I think I just didn't even consider it much.
While I didn't get much use of Sybee at all, I think that's just because I picked her for the wrong situation. Next session, if given the choice I'll probably not pick her since we'll be indoors. She's good, but I realize now, she's more so only good as either a caster occultist supplement, or for large, open battlefields. I do feel her hexes are sort of lacking in usefulness.
Coralene was solid. She proved useful where needed and I may have gotten away with the command ability. Ubro was as good as expected when used for reserve purposes.
Looking back I'm trying to determine which spirit I'd use in place of Sybee in the situation above. Al'Kra is generally useful all around really. Vandrae might have been good, if not just for her counter spell and sneak attack. Saelendrios would have been good as well I think.
Anyways, that's it in terms of occultist playtest stuff. I won't bore you with the other fun details.
This question goes to some of the fellow players / play testers. Out of the spirits, which have you found to be the most generally useful? As in, not situationally useful? I think this input would help me in terms of playing the occultist better, and would love to hear thoughts on the subject.
As it stands, I know Al'Kra is, for the most part, generally useful. Which others do you think might fit the bill?
This question goes to some of the fellow players / play testers. Out of the spirits, which have you found to be the most generally useful? As in, not situationally useful? I think this input would help me in terms of playing the occultist better, and would love to hear thoughts on the subject.
As it stands, I know Al'Kra is, for the most part, generally useful. Which others do you think might fit the bill?
I always like Fey Barradu due to his versatility--his major works well for all sorts of builds, and although some of his minors are situational, they can still be useful. Ubro, of course, could be considered situational, but who would deny additional healing?
I'll dig through and suggest some of the others I tend to bind.
Is there an anticipated release date for this? It's killing me to see all the comments.
Is there an anticipated release date for this? It's killing me to see all the comments.
Our promised Kickstarter date was August 2015. Its just about August, and I can say with certainty that the Grimoire won't be ready then. Almost all of our artists are behind on their work, and we can't really make them draw any faster.
Dario and I will announce more as we get closer!
At least most of the written work is complete! :)
I always like Fey Barradu due to his versatility--his major works well for all sorts of builds, and although some of his minors are situational, they can still be useful. Ubro, of course, could be considered situational, but who would deny additional healing?
I'll dig through and suggest some of the others I tend to bind.
That'd be appreciated. From what I've been able to actually play, which admittedly is only so much, I've found that with the occultist you really need to be able to either know what you're facing that day or guess right to feel and be effective. At least that has been the case so far for me. That said, I feel that if the more generally useful spirits can be narrowed down, then the feeling of guessing can be mitigated. Granted, this can also be helped by the Expel Spirits, but while it will come up (maybe even often) in use, it's not preferable due to its major penalties.
I'm probably going to have to use Expel Spirit on Sybee next game, and change over to something more fitting for indoors. Probably Saelendrios or Imitreyes. Pretty much gaurunteed to fail the check due to how high the penalty of Expel Spirit is (I thought it was -5 originally, but nope -10... jeebus).
Anywho, any suggestions for spirits levels 1-4 (more would be fine since I want to make a guide some day) would be appreciated. More perspectives is always helpful.
Pretty much gaurunteed to fail the check due to how high the penalty of Expel Spirit is (I thought it was -5 originally, but nope -10... jeebus).
Word gets around fast when you double-cross a spirit. ;-)
Word gets around fast when you double-cross a spirit. ;-)
Apparently. You'd think they'd be ok with it, if it meant they still had a healthy living body to shack back up in later haha, but I guess them spirits be the vengeful sort.
I did have a question though, perhaps it's already been answered. For Saelendrios, it gives you the God Binder ability.
1) - I assume you don't have to use it as a vestigial boon as the feat normally entails?
2) - It lists the Protection Domain, which has the first power of giving your resistance bonus (from the same domain) to an ally for some time. Does this mean that if an occultist chooses the protection domain, for the duration of the pact they have the given resistance bonus for themselves until they use the ability?
Apparently. You'd think they'd be ok with it, if it meant they still had a healthy living body to shack back up in later haha, but I guess them spirits be the vengeful sort.
Here's another way to look at it.
You're stranded in the desert. Say you've been stranded in the desert for a long time. Months perhaps. Maybe years. Getting by eating catus fruit and scorpions. Stuff like that.
Then out of nowhere, some lady comes along and says, "Hey, you don't need to eat those scorpions. I'll give you fresh food and water, but you'll have to work for it for a day." You're hungry, so you agree, and you plow the lady's fields and till her crops for a few hours. Lunchtime comes, and when you go to the house to get what you've earned, the lady says, "Sorry, can't afford it today. Guards? Escort our 'trespasser' from the grounds, please." And then you're thrown back out into the desert, having done a few hours of work and gotten nothing but lies and false promises out of it.
1) - I assume you don't have to use it as a vestigial boon as the feat normally entails?
Nope. Salendrios breaks that rule. You're basically trading that minor granted ability for those benefits instead, which is basically what God Binder does.
2) - It lists the Protection Domain, which has the first power of giving your resistance bonus (from the same domain) to an ally for some time. Does this mean that if an occultist chooses the protection domain, for the duration of the pact they have the given resistance bonus for themselves until they use the ability?
No. That's not listed as one of the domain's granted powers, so you don't get a resistance bonus. You only get what's listed as a granted power.
No. That's not listed as one of the domain's granted powers, so you don't get a resistance bonus. You only get what's listed as a granted power.
I see. Since the first ability (and as far as I can tell, the only ability you'd gain from the God Binder ability) says "As a standard action, you can touch an ally to grant him your resistance bonus for 1 minute...", and you don't gain the resistance given by the domain, does that mean the ability does nothing? Or do they gain the resistance bonus you would have (but don't) from the domain? Or does it mean they get bonuses from other sources of resistance bonuses (like feats, magic items and such)?
Here's another way to look at it.
You're stranded in the desert. Say you've been stranded in the desert for a long time. Months perhaps. Maybe years. Getting by eating cactus fruit and scorpions. Stuff like that.
Then out of nowhere, some lady comes along and says, "Hey, you don't need to eat those scorpions. I'll give you fresh food and water, but you'll have to work for it for a day." You're hungry, so you agree, and you plow the lady's fields and till her crops for a few hours. Lunchtime comes, and when you go to the house to get what you've earned, the lady says, "Sorry, can't afford it today. Guards? Escort our 'trespasser' from the grounds, please." And then you're thrown back out into the desert, having done a few hours of work and gotten nothing but lies and false promises out of it.
I don't dispute that the flavor of spirits being ticked off makes sense for the ability, I just personally think that the ability is almost a must have for occultists, and as a player its a bummer that it penalizes you. I'll bite the bullet (so to speak) either way though, so its moot.
...So is scorpion eating in the desert the general landscape of the spiritual world then? haha
New question. If one uses Tommy Greenthumb as a reserve spirit, do they only turn into a kid when they decide to pull him out of reserve for the minutes allowed? If so, that'd actually be pretty cool in terms of disguising ones self.
New question. If one uses Tommy Greenthumb as a reserve spirit, do they only turn into a kid when they decide to pull him out of reserve for the minutes allowed? If so, that'd actually be pretty cool in terms of disguising ones self.
Yup!