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So. I think I'm going to play Pact Effigy as if it were available to a 2nd lv. Occultist (since that's when they could pick it up if the change were made). Currently there's a big chunk of 5th lv. secrets and I'm interested to see how it effects the build and feats. If my DM is ok with all of this that is, which I think he will be.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bookrat wrote:

Is there any way to improve the steal combat maneuver bonus for Tommy Greensprout's major granted ability?

All I can find so far is the Improved Steal feat which gives a mighty +2. Also a must have for Tommy because otherwise using his major ability provokes an attack of opportunity, which makes combat expertise a feat tax for this spirit. Also agile maneuvers is a must have because Tommy grants a -2 penalty to str, con, and wis (you need str for the age swipe), and a +2 bonus to dex.

It doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity because of Greensprout's Tricks. "In addition, you may use your binder level in place of your base attack bonus on steal attempts and steal attempts that you make do not provoke attacks of opportunity."

It's also worth noting that if you get a good pact with him, you can suppress Forever Young if you want to, so Strength-based occultists can still make use of it if they manage to beat the DC...though admittedly, Forever Young can help you with the CMD boost if you nail the capstone empowerment, since being treated as a Youth will give you a minimum of a +2 bonus on it, but that might not be worth it if you're Strength-based.

For other boosts, Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver (UE) can be picked up for 4k to provide a +2 bonus to the selected combat maneuver. A Brawling (ACG) weapon allows you to add your weapon's enchantment bonus to combat maneuvers, though the type of weapon is restricted. If you've got Use Magic Device or bind Vishgurv, you could use a wand of true strike to help yourself out immensely if you don't mind 'wasting' a standard action...and anything that boosts your binder level would help too.


Luthorne wrote:
For other boosts, Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver (UE) can be picked up for 4k to provide a +2 bonus to the selected combat maneuver. A Brawling (ACG) weapon allows you to add your weapon's enchantment bonus to combat maneuvers, though the type of weapon is restricted. If you've got Use Magic Device or bind Vishgurv, you could use a wand of true strike to help yourself out immensely if you don't mind 'wasting' a standard action...and anything that boosts your binder level would help too.

You can also get a Belt of Superior Maneuvers for a bonus 3/day. Since a combat maneuver check is considered an attack (as least in the combat maneuvers description) you could have your vestigial companion or allies also assist you for at least +2.

Contributor

bookrat wrote:

Is there any way to improve the steal combat maneuver bonus for Tommy Greensprout's major granted ability?

All I can find so far is the Improved Steal feat which gives a mighty +2. Also a must have for Tommy because otherwise using his major ability provokes an attack of opportunity, which makes combat expertise a feat tax for this spirit. Also agile maneuvers is a must have because Tommy grants a -2 penalty to str, con, and wis (you need str for the age swipe), and a +2 bonus to dex.

Greater Steal gives another +2.

I'm also fairly certain that you can be denied your Dex bonus to CMD, just as you can with AC. But generally, no. That's intentional too; I want it to be difficult for you to turn a dragon back into a juvenile or whatever age categories that I said dragons become.


So I got to play with my Occultist updated to the playtest standards. My previous Occult Scholar 6 lost a bit of his tankiness with the conversion and so I'm now playing an Occultist 5 (Alchemical Meister) / Oracle 1.

Playtest Info:

Quote:

I chose Alchemical Meister as my archetype due to wanting to play around with the occultinogen binder secret and Craft(Alchemy) being one of my character's skills.

A 1-level dip in Oracle makes up for losing access to the Side-Step Secret Revelation (Cha instead of Dex for AC and Reflex saves) provided by Occult Scholar, and a feat for Extra Revelation gives access to Focused Trance (Cha/day gain +20 competence bonus on an Int-based skill check). Focused Trance helps complete Knowledge Tasks quicker, but the loss of an Occultist level does mean slower spirit progression. The dip also granted me orisons which work well with my character background.

I have the Favored trait from PMU2 which allows me to gain +2 to my binder level when determining my maximum spirit level for summoning/binding a specific spirit--in my case this is Fey Barradu.

I started the game bound to my previous spirits of the last game, Fey Barradu and Marat.

Fey Barradu is my go-to spirit; his major is great and gives you at-will shapeshifting, which lets me polymorph into a tiger so that I can lockdown enemies with grapple. Baraddu's Fangs buffs my attacks and has them count as cold iron, which came up last game and bypassed the enemy's DR. Awesome Blow, Wild Empathy, and Woodland Stride I have yet to use, but I'd rather have some dead-weight abilities than have Fey Barradu's major get changed.

We ended last game after a major battle with our party hurt and our healer absent that week--my GM allowed my conversion to already have an occultinogen created, so I was able to switch out Fey Barradu for Ubro and give some minor healing to the party. I found the limitation of "creatures can benefit from your healing surge a number of times per day equal to half your maximum spirit level" hurt quite a bit; while I agree that 3+Cha was too much, now it seems too little (especially with bad rolls). At 5th level it only gives you healing 1/day, which makes the major useless for your party after one battle, and not worth binding Ubro for long periods of time. If it also granted fast healing 1 (that scales) then it could be used for down-time healing or at least have a use for the party once they can't get the channel energy healing anymore.

The second day we left to investigate a disruption of trade routes and I was again bound to Fey Barradu and chose to go a different direction with N'alyia. Unfortunately, the enemies we found were undead and so her major and mesmerize were of no use; I replaced her shadow bite with the dire bat animal companion. I didn't use my occultinogen due to my companion and I being distractions for the weaker zombies in the horde, so Fey Barradu's beast shape was more important.

This was a shorter session and so it ended after we defeated the undead, but for those interested in alternate ways to gain versatility with spirits Alchemist Meister/occutinogen is also another way to go.


Playtest Report #2

We continued to explore the island, looking for a tribe of cyclopes. We found them, and for some strange reason violence ensued.

Spirit's Bound (Same as previous report): Prince Oszen (Poor Pact), Anajira (Poor Pact), Tyrant Cromwell (Reserve, Poor Pact).

In this encounter, I had the opportunity to use a variety of Oszen's abilities, and also a lesson in the dangers of being under a spirits influence. Oszen's influence can be particularly bad for an adventurer.

First Encounter:

Our first encounter with the Cyclopes was the result of a trap... Three of our party triggered a net, getting entangled. A fairly standard battle started, and it quickly went badly. Suffering under Oszen's influence, I couldn't attack except in retaliation. I was one of the first to go, and hadn't been attacked yet, so I activated Blood of the Moon . More Cyclopes arrived, and a general melee started.

Using Summon Inheritance , I managed to drop one of the Cyclopes into a spiked pit, but failed my Saving throw against Oszen's influence for attacking without provocation (Giving me a -1 to just about everything for 24hrs). This Immediately came back to bite me, as I was hit for a critical hit with a great axe in the same round.. for exactly 50 damage. I rolled the Fortitude save and got a total of 15... before taking the -1 for disobeying influence... yup, 14... dead. The Party managed to kill off the rest of the Cyclopes and retrieve my characters badly mangled and burned body (One of the giants tried to carry it off, and was promptly hit with Flame Strike and Call Lightning).

A Trip back to the ship and a Reincarnate later, and I'm back in the game (Now as a Half-elf). This time, I used the Inquiry secret to learn a bit about what we may be up against. Knowing we would be facing potentially big hits from giants, and with no diamond dust for Restoration, I changed up my Spirit selection to favor a ranged approach.

New Spirits Bound: Prince Oszen (Poor), Xasa Culthic (Poor), Tyrant Cromwell (Capstone). Not getting Pact Augmentations on Poor Pacts seems kinda harsh when you suddenly start rolling poorly on you're pacts.

We Returned to the Cyclopes tribe, and this time things went better. Still suffering from the influence of two spirits, I needed to play smart. Everyone in the party was sporting Falsified Life , and I was able to bring up Blood of the Moon before going into battle.

2nd time's the charm:

This time, I lead the way. Knowing that last time the Cyclopes started out with ranged attack, I put myself out front once the Ninja found them. Two attacks missed, giving me two valid targets that I could strike back at. I opened up with an Empowered (Empower Major Ability) Sonic Bolt , catching two of the giants in the effect. One note on this ability. The Capstone doesn't seem that much (if any) better than the basic ability. (Perhaps the capstone could inflict bleed damage on a failed save?) I followed that up by dropping the second giant with a Spiked Pit, and then opened up some more pits to control and shape the battlefield. All in All, I felt a lot more useful this time, partly dew to putting more thought into how to best use my various abilities.


Greensprout Rapscallion: The AC Bonus says that it increases according to the table, but this bonus is not listed on the table.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:
Another minor error I noticed: Eos Dei's Crushing Loneliness doesn't list a save to avoid the effect, but the last sentence reads, "Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this granted ability again for 1 day." Not sure if there was supposed to be a save (I would presume a Will save if so), or if the first part of the sentence was a reference to an older version which offered a save?

I didn't notice a response to this; if it's not too much trouble, could you mention whether or not this ability is supposed to have a save?

For Anajira's Legend, it reads, "After his forty-seconded daughter was born," which should probably be forty-second.

For Anajira's Legend, it reads, "As he poised himself to strike, the child’s mother pounced the Lord of Panthers in defense of her child, other mothers followed her example soon after." I feel like, a) "child's mother pounced" should either be "pounced on" or "pounced upon", and b) "other mothers followed" should either be "and other mothers followed" or "other mothers following".

For Anajira's Skirmisher's Pounce, I don't see why you require the capstone to utilize Vital Strike as written. Unlike Spring Attack, which specifies an attack action, which is why Vital Strike doesn't work with it, Skirmisher's Pounce allows a standard action, which Vital Strike is. The Capstone Empowerment, on the other hand, refers to it as an "attack" (but there are non-attacks you could use with your standard action). Does the capstone refer to a previous version of Skirmisher's Pounce which acted like Spring Attack? If so, I might suggest the capstone grant the option to either utilize a standard action or combine a full attack with movement?

For the Legend of Ethaniel Midnight, it reads, "“What’s going on down there?” this mother would yell." I believe it should be "his mother"?

I believe this has already been mentioned, but Fey Baraddu's Physical Sign and Personality Influence are both identical to Catha of Codex's...to the point of even mentioning Catha of Codex's name.

For Gulguthriana, "Capstone Empowerment:" isn't bolded and italicized.

For Hexus' Legend, it reads, "This is never more true then when spells come to bare against one another on a massive scale," which I believe should be "bear". Unless we're talking some sort of spell orgy...which, considering it occasionally produces living spells doesn't seem to be entirely out of the question, but I suspect it is not as intended.

For Hexus' capstone empowerment, it reads, "You may use possess animal to possess a corpse of an animal or humanoid," and possess animal should be italicized as a granted ability.

For Kandisha's Protection of Kandisha, it reads, "except the benefits only apply against male creatures of the following types are affected, regardless of alignment: humanoid, monstrous humanoid, outsider." Should be either, "except the benefits only apply against male creatures of the following types, regardless of alignment" or "except only male creatures of the following types are affected, regardless of alignment".

For Kandisha's Vestigial Bond, it lists the sand elemental as being from Bestiary 2, but the quasielementals from Bestiary 2 are ice, lightning, magma, and mud, not sand. The closest thing to a sand elemental is the sandman, which does have the elemental subtype, or perhaps simply an earth elemental flavored as being made of sand?

For Night Fang's legend, it reads, "Under the light of the full moon, the hag made love with her captive as her loins consumed his genitals," but since there were four of them, I believe it should be either "with her captives" or "with each captive".

For Prime Ravager's Duck and Cover, it reads "After succeeding on a Reflex save, you move 5 feet as an immediate action." Does this mean you are obligated to move, or can you choose to remain in your current location if you desire?

For Prime Ravager's Mental Acuity, might I suggest rephrasing "add your Charisma bonus (if any) on Will saves that you make as an insight bonus" as "add your Charisma bonus (if any) as an insight bonus on Will saves"?

For Prime Ravager's Physical Sign, it reads, "With salt growths that resemble the seals of every spirit that you have ever made a pact with cover your body." Was that intended to be "White salt growths"? If not, I believe the 'with' should be removed.

For Prime Ravager's Personality Influence, it reads, "You must be constantly partaking in the finest food and drink." As written, this means any time you aren't eating the finest food or drinking the finest drink, you are going against his influence...if this is intended, this seems harsh, since it would seem to preclude any other actions.

For Prime Ravager's Vestigial Boon, it says that the salt growth can be broken, but doesn't state what the hardness is or how many hit points it has for it to be broken. On the other hand, it says 'instead of a gem', so would this reference rules for Ravager Spirits, where the appropriate hardness and hit points would be referenced? If so, I might still consider clarifying that the salt growth has the same hardness and number of hit points as a ravager spirit's gem (soul gem?).

For Son of Dobb's Favored Enemy, it reads, "Any (insectoid creatures with an Intelligence 3 or greater)". I believe it should be either, "with an Intelligence of 3 or greater" or "with Intelligence 3 or greater".

For Son of Dobb's Vestigial Boon, I feel like it's not worth taking for a once per day ability, even if it could potentially save someone's ass. Perhaps after its use, it can't be used again for another hour to prevent it from use multiple times in the same encounter, or perhaps it could have additional uses at higher levels; say, an extra use at 11th, 15th, and 19th? Or at 13th and 18th?

For Swan Elashni's Heartfelt Haze, it reads, "You buffet one target within 30 feet with love as a standard action, causing it to become dazed for 4 rounds and its attitude towards you improves by one step, as if you had succeeded on a successful Diplomacy check." How long does the attitude improvement last? I presume not just for the 4 rounds, since the target being dazed would prevent an improved attitude from being useful in any way (barring them being immune to being dazed, but not to mind-affecting effects), but is it a permanent improvement, or does it last for the duration of your pact with Swan Elashni?

For Swan Elashni's Personality Influence, it has the same thing as Gwendolyn's Ghost where you must speak constantly of your true love, but not all binders will necessarily have a true love (or, perhaps, know who their true love is in a destined view of things).

For Swan Elashni's Vestigial Bond, you again refer to the bird companion as a bird of prey companion (though this is certainly descriptively accurate considering the examples). I'll admit I'm somewhat surprised that you didn't go with the Trumpeter Swan animal companion from Bestiary 4, though.

Edit: Also, are you considering adding anything from Unchained at all to this? For example, if the DM is using the Unchained eidolon, if you bind Loh'Moi, what eidolon type would be used, if any? Also, an occultist option for variant multiclassing could be interesting to toss into the Esoterica section?


Luthorne wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Another minor error I noticed: Eos Dei's Crushing Loneliness doesn't list a save to avoid the effect, but the last sentence reads, "Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this granted ability again for 1 day." Not sure if there was supposed to be a save (I would presume a Will save if so), or if the first part of the sentence was a reference to an older version which offered a save?
I didn't notice a response to this; if it's not too much trouble, could you mention whether or not this ability is supposed to have a save?

Page 86, in the pact making chapter, says that granted abilities have a save DC of 10 + 1/2 the binder level + charisma modifier. I believe it's supposed to be assumed that abilities which target others (and don't have an attack roll) will require a save.


Quote:
For Swan Elashni's Personality Influence, it has the same thing as Gwendolyn's Ghost where you must speak constantly of your true love, but not all binders will necessarily have a true love (or, perhaps, know who their true love is in a destined view of things).

It could be like Maid Marian from Robin Hood: Men in Tights where she sings about her future "true love" that she one day hopes to meet. She has no idea who it will be.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bookrat wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Another minor error I noticed: Eos Dei's Crushing Loneliness doesn't list a save to avoid the effect, but the last sentence reads, "Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this granted ability again for 1 day." Not sure if there was supposed to be a save (I would presume a Will save if so), or if the first part of the sentence was a reference to an older version which offered a save?
I didn't notice a response to this; if it's not too much trouble, could you mention whether or not this ability is supposed to have a save?
Page 86, in the pact making chapter, says that granted abilities have a save DC of 10 + 1/2 the binder level + charisma modifier. I believe it's supposed to be assumed that abilities which target others (and don't have an attack roll) will require a save.

Yeah, but it doesn't say what kind of save, and not everything requires a save (for example, Sevnoir's Feast on Fear doesn't offer a save)...and a save isn't mentioned until the last sentence. So, either it's missing the usual "A successful [???Will?] save negates this effect", or it should say, "A creature cannot be the target of this granted ability again for 1 day." I'm not sure which is correct, though I suspect the former and a Will save that was left out because it originally emulated a spell-like ability, but it's possible it originally had a save and Alexander decided against it, but accidentally left the first part of the sentence as a relic of the old ability.

bookrat wrote:
Quote:
For Swan Elashni's Personality Influence, it has the same thing as Gwendolyn's Ghost where you must speak constantly of your true love, but not all binders will necessarily have a true love (or, perhaps, know who their true love is in a destined view of things).
It could be like Maid Marian from Robin Hood: Men in Tights where she sings about her future "true love" that she one day hopes to meet. She has no idea who it will be.

If so, I think it should be phrased, "speak constantly of true love", though that's somewhat implied by the second part...I definitely like the idea, but I can easily imagine someone not having any idea of what to do with a bad pact simply because their character is currently between lovers or even recently had a bad break-up, depending on circumstances.


Q: What is the reasoning behind granted abilities that function as spells and granted spell-like abilities requiring material components? This prevents a binder from using these abilities while affected by polymorph effects, which many spirits grant. This also prevents a binder's vestigial companion from being able to use these abilities unless the companion is humanoid due to requiring a spell component pouch for the material components.

If it is to avoid misuse (as per fabricate), I believe those specific restrictions can be on a per ability basis, similar to Kaylos's twisted wish, which specifically states that it requires the material component unless the target is cowering from sinful desire.

Contributor

Orich wrote:
Q: What is the reasoning behind granted abilities that function as spells and granted spell-like abilities requiring material components? This prevents a binder from using these abilities while affected by polymorph effects, which many spirits grant. This also prevents a binder's vestigial companion from being able to use these abilities unless the companion is humanoid due to requiring a spell component pouch for the material components.

Both of those are incorrect. Spell-like abilities don't require verbal or somatic components and they never require material components unless noted otherwise. For instance, the major granted abilities section specifically notes what sort of material components are needed for spirit spell-like abilities.

Both of these mean that you can use those abilities while polymorphed and regardless of whether or not you have those material components. If your assessment were correct, then blink dogs wouldn't be able to use their at-will dimension door spell-like ability.


Orich wrote:

Q: What is the reasoning behind granted abilities that function as spells and granted spell-like abilities requiring material components? This prevents a binder from using these abilities while affected by polymorph effects, which many spirits grant. This also prevents a binder's vestigial companion from being able to use these abilities unless the companion is humanoid due to requiring a spell component pouch for the material components.

If it is to avoid misuse (as per fabricate), I believe those specific restrictions can be on a per ability basis, similar to Kaylos's twisted wish, which specifically states that it requires the material component unless the target is cowering from sinful desire.

That is a general contradiction. Typically, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities do not require spell components unless specifically stated, whereas this book states the exact opposite: spell-like abilities require a material component unless otherwise stated. Makes it a bit difficult to do things.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Orich wrote:
Q: What is the reasoning behind granted abilities that function as spells and granted spell-like abilities requiring material components? This prevents a binder from using these abilities while affected by polymorph effects, which many spirits grant. This also prevents a binder's vestigial companion from being able to use these abilities unless the companion is humanoid due to requiring a spell component pouch for the material components.

Both of those are incorrect. Spell-like abilities don't require verbal or somatic components and they never require material components unless noted otherwise. For instance, the major granted abilities section specifically notes what sort of material components are needed for spirit spell-like abilities.

Both of these mean that you can use those abilities while polymorphed and regardless of whether or not you have those material components. If your assessment were correct, then blink dogs wouldn't be able to use their at-will dimension door spell-like ability.

Then you might want to change this (page 86, right side, 2nd paragraph):

"A granted ability that functions as a spell with material components (including spell-like abilities) requires those same material components unless noted otherwise. "

Contributor

bookrat wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Orich wrote:
Q: What is the reasoning behind granted abilities that function as spells and granted spell-like abilities requiring material components? This prevents a binder from using these abilities while affected by polymorph effects, which many spirits grant. This also prevents a binder's vestigial companion from being able to use these abilities unless the companion is humanoid due to requiring a spell component pouch for the material components.

Both of those are incorrect. Spell-like abilities don't require verbal or somatic components and they never require material components unless noted otherwise. For instance, the major granted abilities section specifically notes what sort of material components are needed for spirit spell-like abilities.

Both of these mean that you can use those abilities while polymorphed and regardless of whether or not you have those material components. If your assessment were correct, then blink dogs wouldn't be able to use their at-will dimension door spell-like ability.

Then you might want to change this (page 86):

"A granted ability that functions as a spell with material components (including spell-like abilities) requires those same material components unless noted otherwise. "

Hrm, that does need a bit of a change. Its not supposed to require any components that are 1 gp or less.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
bookrat wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Orich wrote:
Q: What is the reasoning behind granted abilities that function as spells and granted spell-like abilities requiring material components? This prevents a binder from using these abilities while affected by polymorph effects, which many spirits grant. This also prevents a binder's vestigial companion from being able to use these abilities unless the companion is humanoid due to requiring a spell component pouch for the material components.

Both of those are incorrect. Spell-like abilities don't require verbal or somatic components and they never require material components unless noted otherwise. For instance, the major granted abilities section specifically notes what sort of material components are needed for spirit spell-like abilities.

Both of these mean that you can use those abilities while polymorphed and regardless of whether or not you have those material components. If your assessment were correct, then blink dogs wouldn't be able to use their at-will dimension door spell-like ability.

Then you might want to change this (page 86):

"A granted ability that functions as a spell with material components (including spell-like abilities) requires those same material components unless noted otherwise. "

Hrm, that does need a bit of a change. Its not supposed to require any components that are 1 gp or less.

I was a bit confused by the original ruling. I thought it was a bludgeoning way to fix a delicate problem. This way is significantly better and keeps in line with other pathfinder products.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Hrm, that does need a bit of a change. Its not supposed to require any components that are 1 gp or less.

My apologies for not quoting the section that caused the confusion. Thanks for covering me on that, bookrat!

However, with >1gp material components required some abilities will need to be exempted or wording changed. Some examples are below, and only cover simulacrum spells.

- Moy's companion, which mentions simulacrum.
- Circe's Runes, Mirror, has lesser simulacrum. (This may be intended but the rune's major loses a lot of power, as the lesser simulacrum ends when the pact with Circe's Runes ends.)
- Omlan Atlan, Dopplespell, which functions as lesser simulacrum.
- Evening Star, companion, which functions as simulacrum.

I understand the reasoning behind the change to spell-like abilities and how they function, but a general rule may be overkill where a few specific rulings, like twisted wish, would be better.

Would you like me to go through the "functions as" or spell-like abilities and see which ones have expensive material components and list them? This could help determine the best solution to the problem.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For Arth's Legend, it reads, "Finally, Arthu sired a son, abet an illegitimate one, to a powerful enchantress." I presume it should be "albeit"?

For Arthu's Vestigial Bond, it reads, "You gain a faerie dragonb3 as a familiar, functioning as an Improved Familiar. You possess a wizard level equal to your binder level when determining your raven’s abilities." One of those is incorrect, and I hope it's the raven.

For Beautiful Balr's Capstone Empowerment, it reads, "You can use spurn harm while you are dazed, stunned, or paralyzed." Spurn harm should be italicized.

For Green Glomairah's Capstone Empowerment, it refers to her major granted ability as negativity ward, while the actual ability is labeled Ward Against Harm.

For Green Glomairah's Speak With Plants ability, speak with plants isn't italicized.

For Green Glomairah's Tree Stride ability, tree stride isn't italicized.

For Green Glomairah's Vestigial Bond, it also refers to her major granted ability as negativity ward, while the actual ability is labeled Ward Against Harm.

For Noble Marius' Read Psychic Residue, is there any way to control which events you see? As written, it's just any major event that qualifies, and there doesn't seem to be anything preventing you from getting the same one repeatedly...though I suppose that's appropriate for what's essentially a DM exposition ability.

For Pavatu's Vestigial Bond...the text is in two different font sizes, and in the first sentence, it says you get an air elemental, while in the second sentence, it says you get a cat.

For the Legend of Rattenkönig, it reads, “It is with most
high expectations that I invite you, the finest my dynasty has t ooffer," which I believe should be "to offer".

For Vodavox's Phrenic Blast, it says it's a mind-affecting ability, which should be called a mind-affecting effect.

A quick search shows that the Jealous Guardian and Volatile Mind feats have the same wording, as does Yith’anu's Mind Swap.

Contributor

Orich wrote:
Made a wonderful list of spell errors.

I've just finished going through and double checking all of these. Thanks!

I'm working on answering your questions next.

Contributor

bookrat wrote:

Devotee prestige class, Sacrificial Brand: selecting it twice makes it a move action, selecting it thrice makes it a swift action. There's some (rightful) critiques of the pathfinder system where "improving" abilities forces them to become a new type of action. Especially when swift actions are limited per round and there's so many different ones to choose from. I highly recommend that this ability be changed so it give the player the option to make it a move/swift action. This will set it up so they can choose to use something else for swift and activate their brand via move, or even standard - depending on tactical situations.

If there's any other ability that improves by making something go from standard to move to swift, I also recommend changing those so the player has the option of using the slower action if they choose to.

That talent is based off of the holy vindicator class feature of the same name. Unless Paizo changes theirs, I'm not going to change the devotee's brand.

[Sorry I missed this question for so long!]

Contributor

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Third Mind wrote:
Are there traits for occultists? If so, will they be in this book at the end?

What Luthorne said. The final chapter is an "esoteria" chapter, which basically is filled with rules that won't fit anywhere else.

Currently, there's:

— Expanded Aging Rules
— Occultist Background Generator
— Ravager Spirit Rules
— Skill Rules
— Pact Maladies (from Volume 2, but completely revamped)

I'm also playing with the concept of "Occult Taint" rules, as in, when you're exposed too much to occult power, this is what happens to you. Haven't decided if I want to do it or not, however.

I'm dropping Occult Taint from my outline; going to try to make it an alternate rules system in the next Pact Magic book.

EDIT: The frehmin race will also be in this section, however. Should be about four pages long; if you have Age of Electrotech, it'll look similar to the nash/mutamorph entries in that book.

Contributor

While I'm busy cleaning up the spells section, are there any "occult spells" that you'd like to see that feel like they're missing from the Chapter? Not just "I'm interacting with pact magic," spells, but general creepy occult-feeling magic that you'd like to see? For instance, any aging spells that I ought to have, but don't?


Alexander Augunas wrote:
While I'm busy cleaning up the spells section, are there any "occult spells" that you'd like to see that feel like they're missing from the Chapter? Not just "I'm interacting with pact magic," spells, but general creepy occult-feeling magic that you'd like to see? For instance, any aging spells that I ought to have, but don't?
Spell Ideas:
Quote:

Forced Manifestation: Suppress a spirit's sign and influence by forcing another creature to manifest them.

Corrupting Influence: As inflict influence but can spread from one victim to another.

Freakish Aging: Force a creature to age piecemeal, inflicting it with various maladies. (Maladies are Rasputin's deformities--this makes it an aging spell similar to the 2nd edition wither.)

Inflict Influence: Force another to act under one of your spirit's personality influences.

Minor Binding: Gain a single minor ability of a spirit while forced to show its sign.

Vestigial Form: Change another's shape to that of one spirit's vestigial companion; the target is under the spirit's sign and influence.

These were the first ones that popped in my head; I'll think some more on it and add some more if able.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
bookrat wrote:

Devotee prestige class, Sacrificial Brand: selecting it twice makes it a move action, selecting it thrice makes it a swift action. There's some (rightful) critiques of the pathfinder system where "improving" abilities forces them to become a new type of action. Especially when swift actions are limited per round and there's so many different ones to choose from. I highly recommend that this ability be changed so it give the player the option to make it a move/swift action. This will set it up so they can choose to use something else for swift and activate their brand via move, or even standard - depending on tactical situations.

If there's any other ability that improves by making something go from standard to move to swift, I also recommend changing those so the player has the option of using the slower action if they choose to.

That talent is based off of the holy vindicator class feature of the same name. Unless Paizo changes theirs, I'm not going to change the devotee's brand.

[Sorry I missed this question for so long!]

I think that's fair. I also think Paizo is wrong, but I agree with your decision to keep it the same. I was unaware that it was based off a Paizo class. It's a nice prestige class, though. I'm looking forward to using it.


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single minor ability of a spirit while forced to show its sign.

I like this one. Also along this line, a one level higher spell that grants the major ability for maybe 10 minutes + 5/level, but you're forced to show the sign. perhaps make it so when you cast either spell, you can only pick spirits for whom you would normally qualify if your caster level was equal to an occultist level.


I definitely like Orich's suggestion for the Inflict Influence spell idea. Not that I'm going to be able to use any of these spells in my play test since I'm straight occultist, but, I quite like the idea of possibly causing an enemy to deal with something the occultist (almost) always tries to avoid like the plague.

I feel like something that uses blood (i.e. Con points) to fuel a spell seems creepy and occultist-y. Not pact magic related, but perhaps a pay X Con points (that can heal) and remove disease / poisons. call it Blood Letting or something to that effect. Or maybe you can pay temp Con to quell personality influence (which may already be done with another spell).

Contributor

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Q: Baleful Alter Other: This spell does not list "living creature" (as alter other), but "creature." Can this affect constructs and undead? Also, the description states "...as long as baleful alter other remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form." The duration of this spell is permanent, and so the target loses the ability to assume a new form (other than shapechangers, who are immune to this effect)?

It follows the Polymorph > Baleful Polymorph model. Baleful Alter Other uses the same language as Baleful Polymorph as well.

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Q: Bestow Pact Malady, Greater: Why does the Sorcerer/Wizard receive this at 6 instead of 5 like the other classes that gain this spell? For bestow pact malady the sorcerer/wizard has it at the same level as the other classes.

It follows the same level conventions as bestow curse and greater bestow curse, which are both one-level higher for sorcerer/wizards.

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Q: Last Impression: The target is "one corpse;" does the corpse have to be fully intact for this spell to work or does a partial corpse work as well? If the caster experiences everything that the creature did, does this include providing extraordinary or supernatural senses? If so, then the spell not also providing smell would negate scent. Why does it not provide smell or taste as well?

It now states that the corpse needs to be reasonably intact and that you experience everything the creature did with all of its senses. [Updated.]

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Q: Mental Regression: The BAB is reduced to +1--for 1/2 or 3/4 BAB classes, should this be +0? Also, would spell-casting ability be considered a "level-dependent effect?" If so, are these spells wiped out of memory (for memorization-based classes)?

It should be +0 for everyone. That way there are no awkward multiclassing questions [Fixed.]

For spellcasters, the spell doesn't cause you to lose your prepared spells or spell slots, but it does specifically note that you are unable to cast spells that require a minimum caster level greater than 1. (So you're locked out of everything but cantrips and 1st-level spells.) [Fixed.]

Your caster level is a level-dependent effect, because it is equal to your class level.

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Q: Spirit Birth: The description no longer mentions the Youth gaining the Spirit-Touched template. Is this an oversight or intended?

Intended. I haven't fully decided if I'm going to put the spirit-touched template in this book or not. It depends on space first and "where does it make sense to go," second. Is there anywhere else in the book that I mention this template?

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Q: Suppress Sign: This doesn't mention which spirit is affected. Highest-level, lowest-level, or all?

Updated.

"If the target is bound to a spirit, the spirit’s physical sign becomes suppressed for the duration of the spell, during which the binder cannot show the spell even if he made a good pact with the spell. If the target is bound to multiple spirits you may choose which spirit’s physical sign is suppressed. Multiple castings of this spell can allow you to suppress the physical signs of multiple spirits."

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Q: Undetectable Spirit: This spell mentions "You cloak the presence of a spirit..." but also "..3rd level or lower fail to recognize the target as being bound to a spirit." Does this spell only make one spirit per casting undetectable or all spirits undetectable? Also, should this refer to "divination spells" or "divination effects?" For example, undetectable alignment conceals the target's alignment from all forms of divination, not just spells.

Undetectable spirit has been changed to work like nondetection, except only for the purpose of thwarting divinations that look for spirits or occult stuff. Mass undetectable spirit has been replaced with communal undetectable spirit. Undetectable spirit is now a 3rd-level spell and the communal version is a 4th level spell. Both spells have been added to every spellcasting class's list.

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Q: Zone of Spiritual Abstinence: This ability mentions a Will save but does not state in the description when the Will save occurs.

Updated description below. [Fixed.]

"Creatures within the emanation area (or those who enter it) can’t summon or seal pacts with spirits. Each potentially affected creature is allowed a save to avoid the effects when the spell is cast or when the creature first enters the emanation area. When an affected creature attempts to seal a pact with a spirit within the emanation area, that pact automatically fails upon completing the spirit’s ceremony; the spirit is not summoned into the seal and the pact doesn’t progress to Step 3 or Step 4 of the pactmaking process. Creatures who leave the area are free to seal pacts as they choose."

Contributor

Third Mind wrote:
I definitely like Orich's suggestion for the Inflict Influence spell idea. Not that I'm going to be able to use any of these spells in my play test since I'm straight occultist, but, I quite like the idea of possibly causing an enemy to deal with something the occultist (almost) always tries to avoid like the plague.

I'm working on an archetype that boils down to "trade additional spirits, gain spellcasting like a ranger/paladin/bloodrager." We'll see if it happens.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Intended. I haven't fully decided if I'm going to put the spirit-touched template in this book or not. It depends on space first and "where does it make sense to go," second. Is there anywhere else in the book that I mention this template?

Spirit-Touched template is mentioned in the Spirit-Touched Summons revelation for the Spirit Realm oracle mystery, in Brother Calvis' Favored Enemy, and in the Beast that Births' Birth Horrors major granted ability.

Contributor

I just added a whole bunch of clarifications to the vestigial bond rules about how vestigial companions that function as cohorts work. This also includes some simplifications regarding skill ranks and vestigial companions. Let me know what you think:

"Vestigial Companions: A vestigial companion is a helpful creature that is bound to the binder via its associated spirit. Most vestigial companions function as creatures granted from specific class features, namely a wizard’s arcane bond (for familiars), a druid’s nature bond (for animal companions), or a summoner’s eidolon (for eidolons). A binder uses his binder level as his class level when determining the vestigial companion’s abilities.

Some vestigial companions function as cohorts; such vestigial companions are always 0 Hit Die creatures who advance via class levels. Such companions have the following ability scores, assigned by the binder however she wishes: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8. The cohort also has the standard racial traits associated with its race; alternate racial traits are not available to it. A cohort granted as a vestigial companion doesn’t have a favored class and its class levels must be allocated as indicated by its associated spirit’s vestigial bond ability.

If a vestigial companion has Hit Dice, its hit points are always average for a creature of its kind and class (if any). For instance, animal companions have 5.5 hit points per Hit Die (rounded down) except for their first Hit Die, which is maxized as usual. In addition, vestigial companions that function as animal companions, eidolons, or cohorts doesn’t gain skill ranks like standard creatures do; instead, they possess a number of skill ranks equal to their character level in a number of skills equal to its number of skill ranks per level (based upon its creature type or class level) plus its Intelligence modifier.

Typically, a binder makes any decisions regarding what class features or feats that a vestigial companion after initially sealing her pact with the spirit; once chosen, such choices cannot be altered for the rest of the pact. At the GM’s decision, a binder may be allowed to build her vestigial companion once (the first time it is gained from that specific granted ability) and afterwards the binder summons the same vestigial companion each time. Alternatively, the GM may preconstruct a vestigial companion, requiring all binders who summon that spirit to gain that specific vestigial companion each time the vestigial companion is gained. If a vestigial companion functions as a cohort, that companion doesn’t count as the character’s actual cohort for the purpose of the Leadership feat. Humanoid vestigial companions cannot select character traits or alternate racial traits.

When the pact ends, the vestigial companion returns from whence it came and any equipment given to it while it was summoned falls to the ground in its space. While a vestigial companion is summoned, it is forced to show its associated spirit’s physical sign for the duration of the pact. A binder that made a good pact with the vestigial companion’s associated spirit can suppress its physical sign as a full-round action, or as a swift action if she possesses the Suppress Physical Sign feat.

If a binder has a class feature that grants it a companion, such as an animal companion, an eidolon, or a familiar, it cannot gain a second creature of that kind as a vestigial companion. For example, a binder with an animal companion cannot also gain an animal companion as a vestigial companion. Instead, the binder can choose to grant its existing companion the share granted abilities feature, as noted below. Alternatively, the binder can allow the spirit to possess her companion, warping its body to match the spirit’s vestigial companion. Effectively, you trade your companion’s type and statistics for the type and statistics of the spirit’s vestigial companion. The creature trades its statistics (those based upon its kind) for those of the vestigial companion and gains the share granted abilities feature, but its skills, hit points, feats, and memories remain unchanged. This restriction doesn’t apply to vestigial companions that function as cohorts.

For instance, a binder with a wolf animal companion cannot gain Shelassik’s vestigial companion because Shelassik’s vestigial companion is a shark that acts as an animal companion. Instead, the binder could trade devil’s grin to grant her wolf the shared granted abilities feature or she could exchange her animal companion’s wolf statistics and abilities for those of a shark, otherwise leaving the animal’s hit points, skills, feats, and ability score allocations from leveling up unchanged.
In addition to the notes mentioned above, all vestigial companions receive the share granted abilities feature, as noted below:

Share Granted Abilities (Su): A vestigial companion gains all of the granted abilities of the spirit to which it belongs except for the granted ability traded in its description. The binder and his companion share these abilities: an expended major granted ability is expended for both master and companion uses of a granted ability activated by either creature counts against the total number of times per day that both creatures may use the granted ability."


Alexander Augunas wrote:
I'm working on an archetype that boils down to "trade additional spirits, gain spellcasting like a ranger/paladin/bloodrager." We'll see if it happens.

Neat. I will say, that although I can't cast the spells perse', they might still be useful in terms of custom magic items, and as such could still be "used" later on when my character accrues some wealth.


Luthorne wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Intended. I haven't fully decided if I'm going to put the spirit-touched template in this book or not. It depends on space first and "where does it make sense to go," second. Is there anywhere else in the book that I mention this template?
Spirit-Touched template is mentioned in the Spirit-Touched Summons revelation for the Spirit Realm oracle mystery, in Brother Calvis' Favored Enemy, and in the Beast that Births' Birth Horrors major granted ability.

Pages 50 (twice), 60 (twice), 245, and 246.

Contributor

bookrat wrote:

Humble Ohbai gives an elemental as a companion but the ability is listed as a boon.

Might be my phone, but page 199 under Ma'zad has a single line in the middle of the right hand side of the page (the rest of that side is blank). Formatting error or my phone causing issues?

Merickal (page 200) - is animating a great sword a companion or a boon?

Musha Vadu (page 216) - shadow companion is listed as a boon.

Plus all the ones that Orich found. :)

Humble Ohbai should be a companion.

Merickal should have a boon, not a companion.

Musha Vadu should be a boon, because the shadowdancer's summon shadow ability doesn't fit into one of the vestigial companion's categories (animal companion, familiar, eidolon, or cohort).


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A Few Spell Ideas:
A spell that reincarnates you after you die while it's active; like reincarnate, it doesn't work if you were killed by a death effect. Expensive material components, probably lasts for 1 hour/level or 24 hours. Could imagine it being called Rebirth, Soul of the Phoenix, Samsara's Gift, etc.

A spell that allows you to reincarnate someone that's been dead for awhile as your next child, priming you so that the next time you have sex, you get guaranteed conception, ala spirit birth, aging rapidly to become either a Youth or an Adult. Conceptually, I view this as reincarnation's answer to true resurrection with an occult twist...taking a long time to return to your normal self (though not as long as it would naturally take) makes it somewhat less desirable, but it could potentially bring back someone who died of old age (though probably not death effects?), would provide a new body, etc. Probably would be called True Reincarnation, but could have some other names (Occult Incarnation?)...probably a 9th level druid/shaman/witch spell. I think it would also be interesting if it allowed bringing back dead or disembodied outsiders and such, maybe willing ghosts or other undead too, but it reincarnated them as a mortal (ie, a humanoid), or were stuck as a mortal until they do something to unleash their former power (though that might just be left as something vague for DMs), which would allow for some really neat story ideas (or could work for a mythic version of the spell?)...but that all might be overly complicated.

I'm also envisioning a spell line like bind spirit, but instead it binds a spirit to a weapon, granting said weapon one activated minor granted ability that can be triggered once per round as a swift/free action after hitting a target with said weapon, but the person wielding the weapon gains the spirit's influence and sign while wielding it, and the weapon itself shifts a bit to represent the spirit inhabiting it.

Another spell that would be interesting for story purposes (though it might be better as a magic item?) would be a spell that draws the seal of a (1st-level?) spirit you know, imparting the knowledge of that spirit's ritual and such, and someone who sees the seal must make a Will save or feel compelled to attempt to bind that spirit, discharging the spell (unless made permanent with permanency). If the target doesn't have levels in a binding class, the target acts as if it has a binder level of 1st for this attempt only and makes the check using its Charisma modifier. Spell is probably permanent until triggered (probably with an expensive material component). I envision it being used by unethical casters to frame someone by creating a fake 'binder' for anti-pact magic forces or people hunting the villainous binder, or used as a trap in ancient temples, a way to try and get people hooked on pact magic, or unethical anti-pact magic casters wanting to stir up fear and hatred towards pact magic. Might be interesting as a ritual binder secret, too...

A similar trap spell that causes someone to be possessed by a spirit, essentially gaining the chosen spirit's sign and personality influence with no other benefits, could also be fun if used tactically, possibly adding on an effect where they have to make a Will save or automatically attack any favored enemies or make a Will save to successfully attack favored allies. Or a regular spell. A mass version would be cool too. Mmm, or a contagious version of the spell (perhaps a mythic version?)...the chaos could truly be dreadful. Could make for a cool ritual binder secret, come to that...

I think a spell to create a Pact Poltergeist would be interesting, but it might take away too much from the uniqueness of an occultist, so maybe not...alternatively, a spell that - perhaps temporarily - captures the soul of a dead person, storing their soul inside an object in a manner similar to possess object could also make for a neat spell.

Not sure if any of those are good, though, just some random ideas. Hmm...will think about it some more and see if I can come up with some others...

As a side note: spirit birth says it applies to the next child you sire. Since 'sire' applies to impregnating someone else, does this mean this spell is only of use to male casters? (Or, I guess, female casters in a male form or somehow being able to impregnate someone else...)

Minor note, for the Pact Poltergeist binder secret, it reads, "If the poltergeist is prevented from acting in accordance to its personality influence after having made a poor pact with the occultist, the occultist suffer the pact poltergeist’s personality influence penalty instead of her pact poltergeist." Should be "suffers".


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For instance, animal companions have 5.5 hit points per Hit Die (rounded down) except for their first Hit Die, which is maxized as usual.

Animal companions do not start with max HP for their first HD.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
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Q: Bestow Pact Malady, Greater: Why does the Sorcerer/Wizard receive this at 6 instead of 5 like the other classes that gain this spell? For bestow pact malady the sorcerer/wizard has it at the same level as the other classes.
It follows the same level conventions as bestow curse and greater bestow curse, which are both one-level higher for sorcerer/wizards.

If that's the case, then bestow pact malady should be 4 for sorcerers/wizards, not 3 as listed.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Quote:
Q: Last Impression: The target is "one corpse;" does the corpse have to be fully intact for this spell to work or does a partial corpse work as well? If the caster experiences everything that the creature did, does this include providing extraordinary or supernatural senses? If so, then the spell not also providing smell would negate scent. Why does it not provide smell or taste as well?

It now states that the corpse needs to be reasonably intact and that you experience everything the creature did with all of its senses. [Updated.]

Heh heh heh... So, that guy suffered unimaginable pain right before he died. The pain is so bad that it's almost all you can focus on. Roll a Fort save to see if you can focus on anything else he witnessed before death. >:)


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Vestigial Companion Updates

I like the revisions. I don't think you need "Humanoid vestigial companions cannot select character traits or alternate racial traits." since it's already mentioned in the previous paragraph.


Oh yeah. For spells, I've always enjoyed Rune Traps. Basically runes placed in areas that trigger when stepped on or near. Not many of those in paizo stuff though from what I can recall. Which is a touch surprising.


Luthorne wrote:
Minor note, for the Pact Poltergeist binder secret, it reads, "If the poltergeist is prevented from acting in accordance to its personality influence after having made a poor pact with the occultist, the occultist suffer the pact poltergeist’s personality influence penalty instead of her pact poltergeist." Should be "suffers".

Alternatively, the entire paragraph should be converted to an alliteration. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
bookrat wrote:
Alternatively, the entire paragraph should be converted to an alliteration. :)
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Provided prevention of poltergeist patterning poor pact personality, pact poltergeist's personality penalty prevails upon pact poltergeist's progenitor.

Two non-p words, but I think it works. :)

Contributor

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EDIT: In Cave Mother's legend, it says she was "corned by evil".

Fixed.

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Pact (Poor) reads: "She can attempt a Will save to prevent the penalty (DC equals the spirit’s binding DC when the pact was made, including all modifications) but any penalties accrued last for 24 hours."

Take away the parenthesis and you get: "She can attempt a Will save to prevent the penalty but any penalties accrued last for 24 hours."

This doesn't make sense to me.

Also, Personality Influence needs to be bolded.

Personality Influence = Fixed.

Poor Pact = Updated.

"Pact (Poor): A pact where the binder’s binding check does not equal or exceed the spirit’s binding DC. A binder in a poor pact must show the spirit’s physical sign and she suffers a cumulative –1 penalty on ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks and a –1 penalty to her Armor Class each time she disobeys the spirit’s personality influence. This penalty lasts 24 hours, even after the pact ends. A binder can attempt a Will save to negate the penalty (DC equals the spirit’s binding DC when the pact was made, including modifications)."

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I do feel that Night Fang should grant some natural attacks, what with being a mish-mash of several creatures. Different movement modes would be nice as well, abilities that start out poor and eventually get better.

Bat: No natural attacks, fly 15 ft. (poor), fly speed upgrades.

Crocodile: Tail slap, swim 15 ft., swim speed upgrades.

Spider: No natural attacks, climb 15 ft., climb speed upgrades, eventually gains claws.

Wolf: Bite, land speed increase of 5 ft., land speed increases.

To balance it you can have his sign act as a polymorph effect which will prevent other similar abilities.

The imagery of a big gestalt of creatures having the abilities of its component parts, getting stronger as the binder's power increases, is compelling to me, and it would also ensure that Night Fang would be a good melee/versatile abilities spirit starts weak and ends strong.

Quoting this to look at later.

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Both the Occult Sadist and the Pact Protector Inquisitor archetypes get the same exact ability for binding spirits. Yet the Occult Sadist gets diminished spellcasting while the Pact Protector loses spellcasting altogether. There's nothing that the Pact Protector gets that makes the loss of spell casting worth it when the other Inquisitor archetype gets the identical ability without losing spell casting.

And why would a Pact Protector want the ability to perform an Exorcism (from the occult domain)? The single subdomain that can replace it doesn't seem to fit within the archetype's flavor either. I feel like there should be one more subdomain which replaces the 8th level domain power. Maybe granting the binding secret Empower Major Ability or Bouncing Major Ability so they can better defend the Pact.

Quoting this to look at later.

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For Cornelius Button's Manifestation, it reads, "you are a cricket if you are Good, a .butterfly if you are Evil," and I think the .butterfly should have the period removed.

Fixed.

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For The Crystal Lady's Curse of Crystal, does being treated as if you were in a zone of truth while bound to her mean you make a Will save when you first bind her to determine whether you're subject to it, or are you considered to have automatically failed your save? If the former, is the DC based on the usual DC for your granted abilities? If the latter, it might just be easier to say, "In addition, you can't speak any deliberate and intentional lies while bound to the Crystal Lady." At least, I presume by the wording you don't actually have a zone of truth effect centered on you, you just can't lie?

Updated to the following:

"Curse of Crystal: While you are bound to the Crystal Lady, you gain the clouded vision oracle’s curseapg as an oracle of your binder level. If you already possess this curse, double the distance that you can see with clouded vision. In addition, you must succeed on a Will save each time you would lie or tell a deliberate falsehood or be unable to do so."

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For the Crystal Lady's Destiny Dissonance, it says that multiple uses of the ability don't stack the condition, but sickened doesn't stack with itself; does it just mean that it doesn't extend the duration?

It means that the sickened condition doesn't stack to nauseated. That might be redundant; can someone fact check that for me?

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For the Crystal Lady's Vestigial Boon, can you transfer a minor granted ability that you have already transferred to someone else to an ally (and you count as your own ally), or is the fact that it's suppressed for you mean that you can no longer transfer that minor granted ability to anyone else until your pact with the Crystal Lady ends?

Updated.

"You can transfer one minor granted ability that you possess from any spirit currently bound to you to a touched ally as a full-round action. You cannot transfer granted abilities that have become suppressed for any reason using this ability. The transfer lasts for the duration of your pact with the Crystal Lady or the spirit associated with the transferred granted ability, whichever ends first.While transferred, the granted ability is suppressed for you and you cannot use any ability to expel the spirit associated with the transferred granted ability. You can transfer any number of granted abilities in this manner, but you you may only transfer one ability each time you use this ability. This granted ability replaces destiny dissonance."

More coming down the pipeline soon!

Contributor

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For Ghato'Kacha's Karmic Strike, it reads, "You make a retaliatory strike against a creature that hits you with an attack or targets you with a harmful spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability that deals hit point damage as an immediate action." Slightly nitpicky, but isn't 'harmful' redundant if it has to deal hit point damage?

Fixed, but in order to make the necessary change/clarifications to the ability, I had to reduce the text for fortitude of infinite love; it effectively doubles your Con to determine the number of negative hit points that you can accrue instead of adding your binder level to it. (That was too good, anyway, since it stacked with a few other feats and abilities to crazy effect.)

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For Iona Ophid's Arcane Scent, shouldn't it be Knowledge (arcana) or Spellcraft? Or can you only identify magic items? Though I don't know how many people actually pay attention to the rule that you identify the properties of a magic item with Spellcraft and you identify the schools of magic involved with Knowledge (arcana)...anyways, if it was on purpose, that's okay, I was just wondering.

Its getting a bit of an unrelated change.

"Arcane Scent: While you are bound to Iona Ophid, you gain the scent ability. In addition, you can detect the presence or absence of magic auras as though the aura possessed a scent. A moderate aura can be detected at twice the usual range while a strong aura can be detected at triple the usual range. If you possess ranks in Spellcraft, you may attempt to identify these auras as if you were using detect magic."

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For Kaiya's Abjure Missiles...a very thematic ability, but if they're real birds (and not, say, bird-shaped flashes of light), you might want to say they should be treated as ravens just on the off-chance the party is hungry and the archer and the binder decide to abuse this ability for snacks. I would suggest a thrush, but those are Diminutive.

With how popular the build has been this past month or so, I thought our readers would appreciate this:

"Abjure Missiles: You can deflect projectile weapons by transforming them into songbirds, acting in all ways like the Deflect Arrows until the end of the turn. Unlike Deflect Arrows, this abilities allows you to deflect a number of projectiles during the turn equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Abjure missiles does not require an action to activate, though you cannot use abjure missiles while you are flat-footed or unconscious. All projectiles deflected by abjure missiles are permanently polymorphed into Tiny birds that immediately fly away from combat after being deflected. Treat all projectiles deflected by abjure missiles as though they were destroyed, though magical projectiles receive a Will save to negate the polymorph effect, though they are still deflected. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds."

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For Kaiya's Vestigial Boon, the animal companion to my knowledge is just a 'bird', not a 'bird of prey'. I would also say (a snowy-white eagle), but that might just be me.

Also, Poland appreciates your loyalty.

I'm a quarter Polish.

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For Vandrae's Ceremony, if you're male and don't have a woman you love, can you just not bind her? I know it doesn't have to be romantic love (or at least I would hope, or homosexual male binders are straight out of luck), so it's probably niche, since most men probably love their mothers...but still seems kind of odd as an apparent restriction. (I guess it's appropriate since she hates men, though...)

Change "love" to "admire."

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Moving away from the spirits briefly, on page 87, Minor Granted Abilities, I'd like to suggest that, "A binder who made a good pact with a spirit can suppress any minor granted abilities that he possesses that do not require an action to activate as a move action" be slightly modified to say, "can suppress or reactivate any minor granted abilities", since, as written, there's no way to actually reactivate a suppressed ability (though I doubt many GMs would enforce that, but still).

Done.

Contributor

Orich wrote:
bookrat wrote:

Do note that you are only required to attack enemies that fall under the favored enemy of the bound spirit. Not your allies. I had to double check that.

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Additionally, each round that a raging mad cultist sees an opponent that qualifies as a favored enemy of one of her bound spirits...

True, but it doesn't say "enemy," it says "opponent." If you're forced to attack someone your party doesn't want you to attack, or your rage is preventing you from attacking someone you should, if your party tries to intervene that would qualify them as "opponents," wouldn't it?

EDIT: I admit that I may be getting wrapped up on the wording here, but the Personality Influences of certain spirits will cause conflict with your party.

Although my original point loses some of its effectiveness if your allies never count as opponents, I think it's still valid for the Mad Cultist to not have Tunneled Lore.

Of course, the only thing that comes to mind now is:

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Well, don't I feel sheepish.
Which I do. -_-

You're getting overly wrapped up in the wording. "Opponent" means "not your ally." Mad cultist is NEVER forced to attack his allies; he's forced to attack certain enemies with extreme prejudice.

Also, rage is an EXTREMELY powerful class feature; a +4 morale bonus to Strength at will is awesome. That alone is worth the tunneled lore class feature.


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For the Crystal Lady's Destiny Dissonance, it says that multiple uses of the ability don't stack the condition, but sickened doesn't stack with itself; does it just mean that it doesn't extend the duration?
It means that the sickened condition doesn't stack to nauseated. That might be redundant; can someone fact check

My immediate response was "yes, it's accurate." Then I decided to look it up just to be sure.

Well, the real answer is: it's complicated.

I've always run it as if sickened stacked to nauseated, but I cannot find any rules to support this. Apparently a lot of people just assume it does and house rule it.

I would suggest leaving it in there if you really don't want it to stack; otherwise expect table variance with most favoring towards stacking.


Quote:
"Abjure Missiles: You can deflect projectile weapons by transforming them into songbirds, acting in all ways like the Deflect Arrows until the end of the turn. Unlike Deflect Arrows, this abilities allows you to deflect a number of projectiles during the turn equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Abjure missiles does not require an action to activate, though you cannot use abjure missiles while you are flat-footed or unconscious. All projectiles deflected by abjure missiles are permanently polymorphed into Tiny birds that immediately fly away from combat after being deflected. Treat all projectiles deflected by abjure missiles as though they were destroyed, though magical projectiles receive a Will save to negate the polymorph effect, though they are still deflected. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds."

Might want to rewrite the bolded sentence. Too many "thoughs." :)


Alexander Augunas wrote:

You're getting overly wrapped up in the wording. "Opponent" means "not your ally." Mad cultist is NEVER forced to attack his allies; he's forced to attack certain enemies with extreme prejudice.

Also, rage is an EXTREMELY powerful class feature; a +4 morale bonus to Strength at will is awesome. That alone is worth the tunneled lore class feature.

If the rage wasn't limited, I would agree. The Mad Cultist gives up constellation aspects, pact augmentations, and all but Starless/one constellation (barring Unbarred). The issue is more with Favored Allies.

You are always prevented from attacking or harming them, so the more spirits you gain the more restrictive the rage becomes. If you could attempt a Will save to attack a Favored Ally it would alleviate my concerns with Tunneled Lore.

Contributor

Quote:
Quote:
While transformed, you do not need to breathe and all falling damage that you are immune to falling damage.
I think this sentence could use a rewrite. Page 118.

Fixed.

Quote:

Lets say we have three spirits with the third in reserve. One from Hero, one from Tree, and one from Angel. We're currently bound to a Hero and a Tree spirit, getting a constellation aspect from each.

When we switch out the Hero spirit for the Angel spirit, do we still keep the Hero constellation aspect even though that Hero spirit is suppressed? Or do we switch out a Hero constellation aspect for an Angel constellation aspect? Or do we lose the constellation aspect when we switch? Or do we lose it altogether and never have it to begin with since we're using Reserve Spirit?

Updated for you.

"Benefit: You can bind an additional spirit to your soul as a reserve spirit, using the normal rules for sealing a pact with a spirit (see Performing a Pact Ritual in Chapter 3). Unlike other spirits, a reserve spirit’s granted abilities are suppressed for the pact’s duration. As a full-round action, you can unsurpress your reserve spirit by suppressing another spirit that you are bound to in its place; doing so also suppresses all active effects that depend on the suppressed spirit’s presence, such as the occultist’s constellation aspect class feature if the suppressed spirit is the occultist’s only spirit of the chosen constellation. You may use the reserve spirit’s granted abilities for a number of minutes per day equal to your binder level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be used in 1-minute increments. When this duration has expired, the reserve spirit becomes suppressed and the suppressed spirit’s granted abilities become available once more, as well as any effects that depend upon that spirit."

Quote:

I think you touched on something here in your analysis--should Occult Weapon, instead of its normal form, act as a Vestigial Bond? The binder secret could give access to enhancing your weapon at the cost of the minor ability switched out as normal with the Vestigial Bond. You could also have the binder lose access to her spirit's abilities while not in contact with the Occult Weapon (making disarm stronger than before). She would suffer the Personality Influence / Physical Sign while in contact with the weapon as well.

This would better balance out Occult Weapon for those binders with only one spirit and even give a normal Occultist pause about picking up the binder secret.

I like this idea. (Bolding/Bigging so I'll notice it later.)

Quote:
Q: What governs whether an archetype has access to binder secrets? Should all pact magic archetypes that have binding have access to binder secrets? Binder secrets are important with binding, for example, Inquiry, which is almost mandatory for a binder.

Binder secrets aren't a right for archetypes with bind spirits. Typically, only classes that have a variable option to select them with (like rogue talents or bonus feats) can select binder secrets, and that's only if getting binding secrets works for the class's overall package.

Quote:
Q: how does tunneled lore and constellations work with starless spirits? Any page citations would be helpful.

There's a new blurb on it in Chapter 3. Basically, a character with tunneled lore can seal pacts with starless spirits if he wants to; starless spirits are universal and thereby not restricted by that class feature.

Quote:
I concur. I think that chapter would be the best place for this rules clarification.

This line has been added to the major granted ability description:

"If you miss with an attack granted by a major granted ability, its use is expended; you cannot “hold the charge” of a major granted ability as you can with a spell with a range of touch, even if the major granted ability functions as such a spell."

Quote:
Greensprout Rapscallion: The AC Bonus says that it increases according to the table, but this bonus is not listed on the table.

Noting to check it out later.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
It means that the sickened condition doesn't stack to nauseated. That might be redundant; can someone fact check that for me?

Sickened doesn't stack to nauseated. There are some special unique abilities where, if used once, it sickens, and if used a second time, it exacerbates the condition to nauseated (such as Dirty Trick Master), or where sickened is the lesser effect if you make your save against being nauseated (such as the flumph's stench spray), or where nausea can be reduced to sickened (such as soothing word or recentering drone), but those are unique to those abilities, not a general rule.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
"Arcane Scent: While you are bound to Iona Ophid, you gain the scent ability. In addition, you can detect the presence or absence of magic auras as though the aura possessed a scent. A moderate aura can be detected at twice the usual range while a strong aura can be detected at triple the usual range. If you possess ranks in Spellcraft, you may attempt to identify these auras as if you were using detect magic."

Well, what I was getting at originally is that...RAW, you can't identify auras using Spellcraft with detect magic. You have to use Knowledge (arcana). Spellcraft can be used with detect magic, but only to identify the properties of a magic item. Unless Arcane Scent is supposed to be an exception, but then I would suggest rephrasing the ability to make it clear that it's an exception.

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