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Q: When reading abilities, does "end of the turn" equate to "end of the round" or "end of a particular creature's turn"?


Just noticed this error and I didn't see anyone else mention it (I searched the thread):

Pg 115; Vishgurv, in the section Pact of Servitude, it reads,"...for one year and a die."


bookrat wrote:
Got any suggestions or anything in particular you would like to see played out?

Pactsworn Pagan and the various Occultist archetypes, namely the Eldritch Jailer, Mad Cultist, and Occult Scholar. I'm not sure if these give up too much for their abilities or, for the Scholar, gain their abilities too late to be really useful for what they give up.

I'm working on builds right now for Occultist and then will be making more for the different archetypes and I'm interested to see what the rest of y'all will be making and what questions you come up with or issues you see.


Orich wrote:
Q: When reading abilities, does "end of the turn" equate to "end of the round" or "end of a particular creature's turn"?

Unless they've decided to use non standard wording, it would be end of creature's turn. If it is intended to last a full round, they normally use wording to the effect of "lasts until the beginning of your next turn" or some such.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Expel Spirits isn't supposed to be "worth it;" specifically, its not supposed to be an option that you're supposed to want to use. The spirits sure as heck don't want it to be easy/profitable for you to expel them from your soul! If you're using it to bind a spirit in a pinch for an emergency/niche situation, then you're using it as its intended.

And that's really the only time I was actually planning on using it. If I had bound two spirits for the day and found out, one other spirit would do the trick, then there would be an expelling happening at that moment. But, that seems to be the intended use anyways. I love reserve spirit and probably would have taken it if I hadn't needed to take craft wondrous items at that specific level (the soonest available for my build).

As for formatting, it's alright. I just need to read more carefully. Them getting split by the levels their available at would be helpful I think though. That's just me."

EDIT: Very slight update in terms of playtesting from just tonight. Due to being turned into a vrykolakas vampire and being given time to switch over to Al'Kra and Cave Mother, I handily slaughtered the vrykolakas that originally killed me by myself (and killed the animal it was trying to run away in). While I attribute that to the vrykolakas boosts I got, Cave Mother was very good for handling the undead. I love what you've done with her.

Contributor

Orich wrote:
Q: When reading abilities, does "end of the turn" equate to "end of the round" or "end of a particular creature's turn"?

End of the turn means the end of the turn that the ability is used on.

I don't think any abilities say "end of the round." Most should say, "Until the start of your next round," or "one round."

Contributor

bookrat wrote:

Just noticed this error and I didn't see anyone else mention it (I searched the thread):

Pg 115; Vishgurv, in the section Pact of Servitude, it reads,"...for one year and a die."

Fixed.

Also, I'm skimming through and tackling the easy questions first. After that, I'm going to start with Luthorne's notes and then move on to Orich's spell analysis.

Contributor

Luthorne wrote:
For Hollow Eyes's Steal Skin, it reads, "You can add a humanoid corpse to this ability as a material companion..." Should be 'material component'?

Yes. Fixed.

Quote:
Speaking of the Steal Skin ability, I feel like annihilating a body should grant more benefits...perhaps making it so that it does alter your perceived tactile properties, and/or possibly just making it last the duration of the pact, rather than 10 minutes/level? Just a thought.

Cool idea. I had one line of text left, though, so this is all I could fit:

"Steal Skin: You shroud yourself with a magical disguise as a standard action, functioning as disguise self. You can add a humanoid corpse to this ability as a material component in order to transform into that specific individual without taking any penalties on your Disguise check for doing so and gain the perceived tactile properties of that creature’s body."

Quote:
For Humble Ohbai's Genie Steeds, plane shift isn't italicized.
Quote:
For Imitreyes' Mind Scan, it says you read a target's thoughts; is this supposed to make detect thoughts into a single-target spell, rather than the usual 60 ft. cone, or is that just fluff?

No, it should be one creature within 60 feet. [Fixed.]

Quote:

For the Legend of Lady Jarah (below the entry), it reads:

“Perhaps she is the maidservant
whose true aristocratic station has been denied?” So the barmaid suggested.
I don't believe there should be a break in the line there.

Yup. [Fixed.]

Quote:
For Lord Foxglove IV's Pockets of Holding, you list the initial bag of holding as (type 1), while the rest are appropriately roman numerals. Should be (type I), I believe.

Yup. [Fixed.]

Quote:
For Moy's Enthralling Gaze, I believe command should be italicized if it's as the spell?

Yup. [Fixed.]

Quote:
For Prince Oszen's vestigial bond, "of the same race as you" seems a trifle awkward; might I suggest, "of your race"?

Yup. Its also supposed to be Youth cohort, not Youth companion. Can someone check if I say, "as the Leadership feat" for any other Vestigial Companions that function as cohorts?

Quote:
For Saelendrios' legend, it reads, "Saelendrios was a high priest of the Lord of Justice who banned together three other religions together with his own". I believe it should be "banded together three other religions with his own"?

Yup. [Fixed.]

Quote:
For Saelendrios' Reveal Faith, it reads, "You can detect an opponent’s religion, at will as a standard action," and it seems like "You can detect an opponent's religion at will as a standard action," is more appropriate.

Yup. [Fixed.]

Quote:
For Ubro's Heal Aches, when it reads, "You cannot target yourself with heal aches", heal aches should be italicized.

Yup. [Fixed.]


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Orich wrote:
Q: When reading abilities, does "end of the turn" equate to "end of the round" or "end of a particular creature's turn"?

End of the turn means the end of the turn that the ability is used on.

I don't think any abilities say "end of the round." Most should say, "Until the start of your next round," or "one round."

Thank you--I thought this was the case but wanted to double-check.


Quote:
Yup. Its also supposed to be Youth cohort, not Youth companion. Can someone check if I say, "as the Leadership feat" for any other Vestigial Companions that function as cohorts?

"Leadership" is only mentioned twice in the book, both in the prestige class chapter for the same ability.

I'll chceck the companions throughout the day to see if I find any.


Alexander Algunas wrote:
Yup. Its also supposed to be Youth cohort, not Youth companion. Can someone check if I say, "as the Leadership feat" for any other Vestigial Companions that function as cohorts?

Moy, Prince Oszen, Vaukner, Beautiful Balr, Death Howls, and Young Krios all mention "companion." Only Tentacles of Dragon mentions "cohort" and none of them mention "as the Leadership feat."


Humble Ohbai gives an elemental as a companion but the ability is listed as a boon.

Might be my phone, but page 199 under Ma'zad has a single line in the middle of the right hand side of the page (the rest of that side is blank). Formatting error or my phone causing issues?

Merickal (page 200) - is animating a great sword a companion or a boon?

Musha Vadu (page 216) - shadow companion is listed as a boon.

Plus all the ones that Orich found. :)


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Is it Thursday Already? Wow.

Playtest review, An Occultist in Skull and Shackles.

Basic Character Outline:

Level 9 Occultist.
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 10, Chr 20

Spirits Bound: Anajira (Poor Pact), Prince Oszen (Poor Pact) Reserve: Tyrant Cromwell (Poor Pact)

So, after some really bad binding checks, I ended up with 3 poor pacts. This was, of course, the day I choose to bind with Anajira.... So Yea, Panther Woman who dislikes female authority figures... on a Pirate Ship... With a female Captain (Seriously, this is awesome lol).

Taking both Anajira and Oszen gave me a wide array of magical abilities, as well as some solid natural attacks. I used Mutable Bonus to move Oszen's Architectural Knowledge bonus to Knowledge (Religion), a skill our party is really weak in. Mutable Bonus really does allow an Occultist to shore up various skill weaknesses nicely, even one with a low Int score like mine.

Because I didn't achieve a Good Pack, I didn't get a Constellation Aspect .

Anajira:
Skirmishers Pounce: I like this ability, but it loses a lot of utility by not giving you immunity to attacks of opportunity (like spring attack). Flurry: I'm not sure why anyone would choose to take this ability with Form of the Panthress over Dark Magic. Multiattack doesn't seem to do anything with only 2 natural attacks (both primary), unless I'm missing something.

Oszen:
Blood of the Moon As polymorph effects go, this one is rather nice, giving Darkvision (My Occultist is Human), STR, CON and Nat Armor, Burrow and Natural Attacks. The hit to CHR wasn't that big of a deal, because I used the form mainly for Darkvision and Burrowing.

Tyrant Cromwell, Reserve:
I like the new progression of abilities here. The Major (Vestigial Might) is a bit cleaner, and upgrading to +4 STR At 8th keeps it relevant. Savage Attacks isn't so front loaded any more, but has a nice progression. At 3rd level you get Power Attack (-1/+3), at 6th level Power Attack upgrades due to BAB (-2/+6) and at 8th you pick up Vital Strike. Considering that a 3/4 BAB class is going to have difficulty connecting with the second attack, I think Vital Strike is a huge plus and 8th level feels right. Phantom Armor moving to a deflection bonus hurt, but not enough worth mentioning.

We explored a bit more of a Keep on an Island for the start of the game. We had already explored most of the keep, but this would have been a great time to use the Inquiry Secret if we hadn't, it would have saved us a bunch of trouble.

Unfortunately, my bad rolling followed me into the first encounter of the day, resulting in my Occultist being Captivated by a Harpy Cyclops' song. I spent most of this fight trying to climb a cliff to get to the Harpy (My grand total Climb bonus of +1 made this unlikely). Our party was a bit unprepared for this encounter or suffered bad luck (3 of 6 hero's failed saves vs the Captivating song, and 2 those that didn't are very poor ranged combatants). More and more, I find myself hating "Save or Suck" abilities that don't allow a new roll each round (But that's not the Occultist's fault lol). After a long drawn out battle with 3 players basically doing nothing productive, the Harpies fled (hurray).

The second encounter of the day was a bit more standard, and I was able to contribute more. We ran into some Dinosaurs while traveling overland, and they took offense at our trespass. I honestly don't know if this encounter was actually written in the AP or if it's something my GM added, but I don't care... because dinosaurs. I swapped Oszen for Tyrant on the first round with Reserve Spirit. Back to Back uses of Vestigial Might thanks to Spirit Mastery, followed by a Flurry of Dark Magic finally let me feel like I was pulling my weight. I don't think this was the smartest time to blow my Spirit Mastery, but I had been really bored on the previous encounter.

Sadly the first encounter ate up a huge amount of time, and we had to call the game at that point, but we will be picking it up again this Sunday. Sadly this was not an ideal week for getting quality feedback for the book.

Also, thanks to those who wished me luck on the Interview! It's a HUGE promotion if I get it.


May I say, I like reading other people's play tests. I was on the fence about Mutable Bonus but Dexion's info sort of tilts me in favor of it. A quick question Alexander, and I may have asked this already, but if you use Mutable Bonus for Lady Jarah, does whatever you switched in place of the Bluff or Perform skill allow you to take 10 even when threatened or distracted?

Dexion, if you don't mind my asking, did you have Expel Spirits? Not that it's a must have, but this seems like the harpy fight would have been the situation for it, if you had spirits such as Fae Baraddu, Lady Jarah or Hollowed Eyes as each can nab you the benefit of flight in their own ways along with some nifty bonuses. Although, it's entirely possible that if you didn't know it was coming, then you wouldn't have had the time.

I have to say, from my experience and from what I'm reading from Dexion's playtest, if one had ways to bind a spirit quickly (probably using things like the rod and mat) it would be the preferable method of not being stuck with spirits that can't help in a situation. Leave a "slot" open, have your quickening items on hand and if an odd construct pops up, it's Xasa Culthic time. I might have to try this some time if I can find the proper resources to do it. Don't think I can go under a minute and a round though. So that may make the idea impractical outright.

EDIT: In Cave Mother's legend, it says she was "corned by evil".

Anyways Dexion, I hope you get that promotion / job!


Nope, I don't have Expel Spirits, But it's on my short list of abilities that I want to pick up. I do have Reserve Spirit and Flexible Pact Making, so I have a good amount of flexibility in my choices for the day. The issue with the harpy fight wasn't that I couldn't effect them (I had a number of ranged abilities such as Ray of Regret and Dark Magic), it's that for the most part I couldn't "Act". I rolled a 2 on my will save, so I spent turn after turn trying to get up the cliff to the harpy instead of fighting. Because I never actually made any progress up the cliff, I wasn't in a dangerous situation, so i didn't get a new save (I was just standing at the bottom of the cliff trying to find a way up).

Mutable Bonus is great, because it allows you to use the skill even untrained... Pick up Use Magic Device to use wands, or grab exactly the right Knowledge Skill for the adventure you are on.

On leaving a slot open: I actually do that on "City Days". Basically, any time we make port somewhere for a few days. I usually bind Marat or Forash in these situations, and leave the second spirit open. That way, I have something if a disaster comes up, but I can customize my "load out" with a little prep time.

On Magic Items: Can anyone explain the advantage of the Spirit Mat over the Rod of Instant Pact? Because from my reading, the Rod or Instant Pact is much better and 1/5 the price? Not sure if that has been brought up yet.


Gotcha. Yeah. Failing any save is a bummer, but that does happen. Especially when the dice are unkind.

Think I might give Mutable Bonus a go when I get the chance.

The Rod of Instant Pact and the Spirit Mat do different things. Each eliminating the time of different aspects of the pact binding ritual. So they can be both uses to eliminate 2 minutes from the 3 minutes and round it takes to bind.

Contributor

Quote:
The Alchemist archetype retains spellcasting, so it seems to fit that he would also have access to Bolster Binding, Conceal Pact Magic, Draw Seal, and Suppress Sign; it could also make sense for him to have access to Bind Spirit I and Bind Spirit II as does a Bard or Summoner.

I think Bolster Binding, Conceal Pact Magic, Suppress Sign, and Bind Spirits I and II make sense for the alchemist. Draw Seal does not, as that spell doesn't target a creature; what's he going to do? Pour the potion on the ground and watch the liquid draw the seal for him? That don't feel right to me.

Quote:
The Bloodrager, Inquisitor, Paladin and Ranger archetypes lose spellcasting but they do have access to many of the above spells--the Magus, however, who also loses casting, does not have any of the above on its spell list.

Which spells would you give the magus, knowing that they typically have very combat-oriented spells known?

At any rate, I agree that paladin and ranger should lose the new occult spells if their pact magic classes can't cast spells. But the inquisitor has two pact magic archetypes, and at least one can cast spells. Having creepy occult magic feels right for the bloodrager should they want to go Amateur Occultist instead of bloodsworn binder.

Quote:
I'd like to know the thoughts behind the spell lists and the presence/absence of the "basic pact magic" spells--do these lists take into account the archetypes that give up spellcasting?

Contributor

Here is a question for the folks at home: I've heard it said by many players that they don't like the feel of the archetypes that give up spellcasting for spirit binding. The question that no one has answered so far is, "Why?" This goes doubly so for the 6-level spellcasting classes.

What do you think?


Ah, yeah, I had to read the Spirit Mat a bit slower. At first I thought that the mat counted as drawing the seal, but now I see that it counts as the Ritual (or is it the Ritual and the Seal?).

I don't know, I think it's a bit confusing as written.

Spirit Mat Text that's confusing me:
A binder can unfurl the mat (a full round action) and use it as a spirit’s ritual (Generally Step 2) instead of drawing the seal by hand (Generally Step 1), which reduces the time it takes to perform a spirit’s ceremony (Generally Step 2) by 1 minute.

Hopefully that explains where my issue is... Which "Step" is the Spirit Mat actually reducing?


Dexion1619 wrote:
On leaving a slot open: I actually do that on "City Days". Basically, any time we make port somewhere for a few days. I usually bind Marat or Forash in these situations, and leave the second spirit open. That way, I have something if a disaster comes up, but I can customize my "load out" with a little prep time.

With Skulls and Shackles, i would imagine that always leaving a slot open while on the ship would be a good idea. Unless the threat is coming from below the surface, you should almost always see it coming and have ample time to prepare. I haven't played the AP, but from my own knowledge of naval warfare, that's what would make sense.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Quote:
The Bloodrager, Inquisitor, Paladin and Ranger archetypes lose spellcasting but they do have access to many of the above spells--the Magus, however, who also loses casting, does not have any of the above on its spell list.

Which spells would you give the magus, knowing that they typically have very combat-oriented spells known?

At any rate, I agree that paladin and ranger should lose the new occult spells if their pact magic classes can't cast spells. But the inquisitor has two pact magic archetypes, and at least one can cast spells. Having creepy occult magic feels right for the bloodrager should they want to go Amateur Occultist instead of bloodsworn binder.

Not sure entirely what you mean here. If you mean to remove their spell lists entirely, then I'd advice against that. What if those classes enter pact magic via Amatuer Occultist feat rather than an archetype? Then they wouldn't lose spell casting and it would be good for them to have spell lists associated with pact magic.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
I think Bolster Binding, Conceal Pact Magic, Suppress Sign, and Bind Spirits I and II make sense for the alchemist. Draw Seal does not, as that spell doesn't target a creature; what's he going to do? Pour the potion on the ground and watch the liquid draw the seal for him? That don't feel right to me.

I see what you mean here about draw seal; the imagery in my head was a specially prepared mercurial substances that repulse one another, and through that create a temporary seal.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Which spells would you give the magus, knowing that they typically have very combat-oriented spells known?

While most of the magus's spells are combat-oriented, he still has quite a few utility spells, so it just seemed to make sense that one interested in pact magic would be able to get those spells as well.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
At any rate, I agree that paladin and ranger should lose the new occult spells if their pact magic classes can't cast spells. But the inquisitor has two pact magic archetypes, and at least one can cast spells. Having creepy occult magic feels right for the bloodrager should they want to go Amateur Occultist instead of bloodsworn binder.

I like the various classes having the spells on their spell lists as well, paladin and ranger included. It was more a question of regarding the presence or absence of the spells. Having them on the spell lists works well with Amateur Occultist or any other interactions with pact magic classes.

Contributor

Orich wrote:
I like the various classes having the spells on their spell lists as well, paladin and ranger included. It was more a question of regarding the presence or absence of the spells. Having them on the spell lists works well with Amateur Occultist or any other interactions with pact magic classes.

But it clashed with the fact that the pact magic specialists for those classes don't get spellcasting, and having spellcasting AND pact magic on some of these classes is simply too many moving parts to balance well.


Dexion1619 wrote:

Ah, yeah, I had to read the Spirit Mat a bit slower. At first I thought that the mat counted as drawing the seal, but now I see that it counts as the Ritual (or is it the Ritual and the Seal?).

I don't know, I think it's a bit confusing as written. ** spoiler omitted **

Hopefully that explains where my issue is... Which "Step" is the Spirit Mat actually reducing?

We talked about that item earlier. See if the new version helps clear things up: link


Thanks Bookrat, I missed that update. Yeah, that clears the item up. But it also brings me back to wondering why I would use the Mat instead of the Rod. The Rod does effectively the same thing, in an arguably cooler way (glowing occult symbol) for the same time reduction at 1/5 the cost and half the weight.

The biggest advantage I could see is buying a Spirit Mat with the symbol of a Spirit you have not completed the Seal Knowledge Tasks for...


Dexion1619 wrote:

Thanks Bookrat, I missed that update. Yeah, that clears the item up. But it also brings me back to wondering why I would use the Mat instead of the Rod. The Rod does effectively the same thing, in an arguably cooler way (glowing occult symbol) for the same time reduction at 1/5 the cost and half the weight.

The biggest advantage I could see is buying a Spirit Mat with the symbol of a Spirit you have not completed the Seal Knowledge Tasks for...

Huh. You're roght, they both effect the drawing-the-seal aspect of making a pact. I don't believe that was the intention.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Orich wrote:
I like the various classes having the spells on their spell lists as well, paladin and ranger included. It was more a question of regarding the presence or absence of the spells. Having them on the spell lists works well with Amateur Occultist or any other interactions with pact magic classes.
But it clashed with the fact that the pact magic specialists for those classes don't get spellcasting, and having spellcasting AND pact magic on some of these classes is simply too many moving parts to balance well.

True, but as you mentioned how creepy occult magic works for the Bloodrager I think works for the others as well.

Quote:

Inquisitor/Paladin: Anti-pact magic focused class who uses pact magic against those who use pact magic. (Falling into darkness to combat the darkness.)

Bloodrager: Gives in to a darker aspect of his psyche with raging, as you said before mixes well with pact magic.

Ranger: Explores his connection to the "worldly spirits" or "spirits of nature," or even exploring the bond between himself and his companion and focusing it outward, and thus discovers pact magic.

Ranger has the weakest reason of the four, but I think the other three are pretty solid, as Shadow Templar for paladin also doesn't lose spellcasting.

That all being said, if I were to use pact magic I would want to be an occultist or a pact magic archetype, so the spell lists wouldn't impact me as much.

Contributor

Putting a hold on spells for the moment because I've figured out how to make the text in the book line up better, so I'm focusing on typography at the moment. (There's a surprising amount of editing needed to clean up how the book works.

In the meantime, here's a small change to two of Tyrant Cromwell's granted abilities that will hopefully improve his attractiveness in the long run.

"Savage Attacks: While you are bound to Tyrant Cromwell, you gain the benefits of Power Attack. At 8th level, you also gain the benefits of Vital Strike. At 15th level, you also gain the benefits of Improved Vital Strike.

Weapon Familiarity: While you are bound to Tyrant Cromwell, you are proficient with the garrote, greatsword, and lance. When you threaten a critical hit with such a weapon, you gain a +1 bonus on rolls made to confirm the critical hit. This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level and every two levels thereafter, to a maximum of +4. This bonus doesn’t stack with Critical Focus or similar effects."


Yeah, I like that change... Power attack goes up at 12th, then at 15th you pick up Improved Vital Strike. The scaling critical focus is nice too.

Also, I got the Job :-)


Congrats, Dexion! :)


Dexion1619 wrote:
Also, I got the Job :-)

Great news! Congratulations!


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Putting a hold on spells for the moment because I've figured out how to make the text in the book line up better, so I'm focusing on typography at the moment. (There's a surprising amount of editing needed to clean up how the book works.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
In the meantime, here's a small change to two of Tyrant Cromwell's granted abilities that will hopefully improve his attractiveness in the long run. . .

I like the revised minors. It gives more of a reason to bind Tyrant Cromwell and the fact that they scale makes them even more attractive.

Actually, that brings up a question:

Q: Should all abilities of a spirit scale? Most do since they functions as spells or have scaling built in as the revisions above, but there are some with defensive bonuses or feats that are set and do not increase in level.


Page 84, in the green section:

Pact (Poor) reads: "She can attempt a Will save to prevent the penalty (DC equals the spirit’s binding DC when the pact was made, including all modifications) but any penalties accrued last for 24 hours."

Take away the parenthesis and you get: "She can attempt a Will save to prevent the penalty but any penalties accrued last for 24 hours."

This doesn't make sense to me.

Also, Personality Influence needs to be bolded.

Contributor

Orich wrote:
Q: Should all abilities of a spirit scale? Most do since they functions as spells or have scaling built in as the revisions above, but there are some with defensive bonuses or feats that are set and do not increase in level.

Most do, but not all need to.

Contributor

I'm still playing around with flurry: form of the pantheress after it was pointed out that Multiattack essentially does nothing for the binder. So far, this is what I've got. It might be too powerful, however: feedback is welcome.

"Flurry: Choose either dark magic or form of the pantheress after you successfully seal a pact with Anajira. If you choose dark magic, as a full-round action you may attack with this touch attack at your full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a greatsword or bow). If you choose form of the pantheress, you can make one additional attack with each of your claws at your highest attack bonus when making a full-attack while polymorphed into a pantheress using the form of the pantheress granted ability and attacking only with natural weapons."


Alexander Augunas wrote:

I'm still playing around with flurry: form of the pantheress after it was pointed out that Multiattack essentially does nothing for the binder. So far, this is what I've got. It might be too powerful, however: feedback is welcome.

"Flurry: Choose either dark magic or form of the pantheress after you successfully seal a pact with Anajira. If you choose dark magic, as a full-round action you may attack with this touch attack at your full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a greatsword or bow). If you choose form of the pantheress, you can make one additional attack with each of your claws at your highest attack bonus when making a full-attack while polymorphed into a pantheress using the form of the pantheress granted ability and attacking only with natural weapons."

I think if you reword the ability it would be a little clearer. The restrictions with "only natural weapons" and having to currently be polymorphed by form of the pantheress balance out the two additional claw attacks.

Contributor

Is this any clearer?

"Flurry: Choose either dark magic or form of the pantheress after you successfully seal a pact with Anajira. If you choose dark magic, as a full-round action you may attack with this touch attack at your full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a greatsword or bow). If you choose form of the pantheress, when making a full-attack action and attacking only with natural weapons, you can make one additional attack with each of your claws at your highest attack bonus. You must be under the effects of form of the pantheress to receive this benefit."


Much clearer. I don't think it's too much, and it is a much harder choice between using Flurry on Dark Magic / Pantheress

Contributor

I'm also working on an update to Green Glomairah and Night Fang, since those were two fairly weak spirits. Here's Green Glomairah: note that her VC now replaces the new green steward ability.

"Green Steward: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you can work Glomairah’s magic to manipulate plants and plant creatures, allowing you to cast a spell from the Plant domain’s list of domain spells as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Plant domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Nature’s Health: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you are immune to all types of disease and poison (including magical poisons and disease), as well as emotion effects, fear effects, and morale effects.

Speak with Plants: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you can cast speak with plants as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier and you gain an insight bonus on Diplomacy checks made to improve the attitude of plants and plant creatures equal to your binder level. In addition, once per pact you can cast commune with nature as a spell-like ability.

Tree Stride: You effortlessly step from tree to tree as a standard action, functioning as tree stride. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Is this any clearer?

Yes, that's much clearer. As Dexion1619 pointed out, it now requires the player to think harder about which version to get.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
"Green Steward: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you can work Glomairah’s magic to manipulate plants and plant creatures, allowing you to cast a spell from the Plant domain’s list of domain spells as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Plant domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

This is a really nice addition--I think you need to indicate "spell from the domain list equal to your maximum spirit level or lower" to avoid confusion. This will make the decision between this ability and the companion difficult.

Quote:
Nature’s Health: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you are immune to all types of disease and poison (including magical poisons and disease), as well as emotion effects, fear effects, and morale effects.

You're now also immune to morale effects, which, depending upon your build, can be good or bad. I do like the imagery of staying "pure," and this will require you to plan out more since you can't benefit from any of these types of effects as well.

Quote:
Speak with Plants: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you can cast speak with plants as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier and you gain an insight bonus on Diplomacy checks made to improve the attitude of plants and plant creatures equal to your binder level. In addition, once per pact you can cast commune with nature as a spell-like ability.

A nice clarification and upgrade to this ability.


Alexander Augunas wrote:


"Green Steward: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you can work Glomairah’s magic to manipulate plants and plant creatures, allowing you to cast a spell from the Plant domain’s list of domain spells as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Plant domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

That's a really interesting way to go (using the plant domain). It let's you get a nice selection of spell-like abilities that fit the theme, and are tied into the same "pool" of uses per day. I like it. In fact, I would keep that in you're tool box for other spirits that you want to give some added versatility too.

I agree it should be limited to spells equal to your Max Spirit Level... You don't want someone level 9 dropping a bunch of Advanced Shambling Mounds into the battle lol.

Contributor

How's this:

"Green Steward: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you can cast any spell on the Plant domain’s list of domain spells whose spell level is equal to or less than your maximum spirit level as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Plant domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."

Contributor

Here's Night Fang's new minors. I'm trying something different and unique with his formatting; since all of his minor granted abilities require you to show the spirit's physical sign, I wrote that note before all of the MGAs instead of including it in all of their descriptions, sort of like how the Nivea Nieces and the Lovers in Battle have special notes in front of their granted abilities. Let me know what you think of that:

"Minor Granted Abilities
All of Night Fang’s minor granted abilities require that you show Night Fang’s sign in order to receive their benefits.

Bat Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain an insight bonus on Fly, Perception, and Stealth checks equal to half your binder level.

Crocodile Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the hold breath universal monster ability and a +1 natural armor bonus to your AC. This natural armor bonus increases by +1 at 10th level and every five levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5. In addition, you can increase your land speed by 30 feet for one round once per minute.

Spider Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you can cast the following spells as spell-like abilities: spider climb, web, and whip of spidersACG. At 10th level, you can also cast phantasmal webapg as a spell-like ability. You can cast each of these spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Wolf Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the scent special ability as well as the benefits of Improved Trip and Greater Trip."


Alexander Augunas wrote:

How's this:

"Green Steward: While you are bound to Green Glomairah, you can cast any spell on the Plant domain’s list of domain spells whose spell level is equal to or less than your maximum spirit level as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Plant domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."

Yup! Looks good!


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Here's Night Fang's new minors. I'm trying something different and unique with his formatting; since all of his minor granted abilities require you to show the spirit's physical sign, I wrote that note before all of the MGAs instead of including it in all of their descriptions, sort of like how the Nivea Nieces and the Lovers in Battle have special notes in front of their granted abilities. Let me know what you think of that:

I like the formatting and I think it will work well. I'll think about the revised minors and get back to you on that.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Bat Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain an insight bonus on Fly, Perception, and Stealth checks equal to half your binder level.

I'm assuming this is the lesser ability, and bonuses to perception and stealth are always helpful. Fly can be useful, but since he doesn't give you the ability it's only useful when you have a spirit that can give it to you. Not that there aren't options in regard, so it's still solid.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Crocodile Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the hold breath universal monster ability and a +1 natural armor bonus to your AC. This natural armor bonus increases by +1 at 10th level and every five levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5. In addition, you can increase your land speed by 30 feet for one round once per minute.

Hold breath is situationally useful, but I'm sure when you need it, you really need it. The +1 to nat armor is ok and the 30 ft speed movement is flavorful. Sort of personally wish we got a constant swim speed in its place. Nothing like emerging from the water as a terrifying creature. But speed is alright too.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Spider Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you can cast the following spells as spell-like abilities: spider climb, web, and whip of spidersACG. At 10th level, you can also cast phantasmal webapg as a spell-like ability. You can cast each of these spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

I like this one quite a bit. Seems to make Night Fang worth it by quite a bit more.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Wolf Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the scent special ability as well as the benefits of Improved Trip and Greater Trip.

Solid and makes Night Fang very nice for trip build attempts, if you don't mind having to look like a terrifying monster to do it. Either way nice stuff.

Overall it seems pretty solid to me. I'm not quite sure how good the Crocodile line is though. Since Bat line is presumably the lesser, it's not bad IMO.

Contributor

Third Mind wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Bat Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain an insight bonus on Fly, Perception, and Stealth checks equal to half your binder level.

I'm assuming this is the lesser ability, and bonuses to perception and stealth are always helpful. Fly can be useful, but since he doesn't give you the ability it's only useful when you have a spirit that can give it to you. Not that there aren't options in regard, so it's still solid.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Crocodile Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the hold breath universal monster ability and a +1 natural armor bonus to your AC. This natural armor bonus increases by +1 at 10th level and every five levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5. In addition, you can increase your land speed by 30 feet for one round once per minute.

Hold breath is situationally useful, but I'm sure when you need it, you really need it. The +1 to nat armor is ok and the 30 ft speed movement is flavorful. Sort of personally wish we got a constant swim speed in its place. Nothing like emerging from the water as a terrifying creature. But speed is alright too.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Spider Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you can cast the following spells as spell-like abilities: spider climb, web, and whip of spidersACG. At 10th level, you can also cast phantasmal webapg as a spell-like ability. You can cast each of these spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

I like this one quite a bit. Seems to make Night Fang worth it by quite a bit more.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Wolf Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the scent special ability as well as the benefits of Improved Trip and Greater Trip.

Solid and makes Night Fang very nice for trip build attempts, if you don't mind having to look like a terrifying monster to do it. Either way nice stuff.

Overall it seems pretty solid to me. I'm not quite sure how good the...

Actually, bat heritage is the most powerful skill-based minor granted ability in the game; its the only minor that gives THREE skills, with all of them being "primary skills." Perception and Stealth are fantastic, and fly combos up well with many other spirits. But an occultist with mutable bonus could easily swap Fly for something like Acrobatics or Escape Artist.

The speed boost for Crocodiles is due to crocodiles (the animal) actually having that ability as an extraordinary ability. Plus swim speeds are MUCH more common among spirits than speed boosts, even temporary ones. Giving crocodile heritage a swim speed would be a nerf.

In terms of design, Night Fang is a hoshpodge character with a hoshpodge lineage with a hoshpodge host of abilities. His abilities don't synchronize well, and that's by design. He's supposed to be a spirit that an occultist might want as a second or third or reserve choice, but certainly not as a primary.


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
The speed boost for Crocodiles is due to crocodiles (the animal) actually having that ability as an extraordinary ability. Plus swim speeds are MUCH more common among spirits than speed boosts, even temporary ones. Giving crocodile heritage a swim speed would be a nerf.

Oh, I understood the speed surge. I've seen those videos where Crocodiles suddenly run up on people on land haha. What is the action to increase your land speed with the ability though? Also, with one round, once per minute, that means that every minute, for one round, you can surge in speed right?

Also, good point about mutable bonus for the bat. I just inserted it into my character sheet yesterday, so if I ever do use Night Fang, which I probably won't do to the environment / setting my PC's in, switching it with Acrobatics or even Disable Device sounds like a solid plan.

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