Beast Rider clarification


Rules Questions


From the Beast Rider archetype for the Cavalier (UC):

"In addition, a 7th-level or higher Medium beast rider can select any creature whose natural size is Large or Huge, provided that creature is normally available as a Medium-sized animal companion at 7th level (like a bear). To generate statistics for such a mount, apply the following modifications: Size Large; Ability Scores Str +2, Dex –2, Con +2. Increase the damage of each of the mount's natural attacks by one die size. A beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments)."

Here are the issues.

1. A Medium beast rider can select a creature whose natural size is Large or Huge, yet you apply a modification granting Size Large. Does a Huge mount shrink but grow stronger and less dexterous and with a bigger bite?

2. The creature selected must normally be available as a Medium sized animal companion at lvl 7. Does this mean specifically "Medium" or does it mean Medium or larger? The reason is that the number of animal companions that are specifically Medium at lvl 7 is actually pretty small. Also, if they can only be Medium at lvl 7, they can only be made Large, so why the reference to Huge as a size that can be selected?

(Also depressed by the "cannot choose...that has fewer than four legs" restriction when I saw that the Kangaroo was Medium at lvl 7. I had a LoL moment imagining a Cavalier riding to battle in a Large kangaroo's pouch.)


I am pretty sure you don't apply the modifications to the animal entry from the bestiary, but you instead apply them to the animal companion version of the creature.

So you figure out everything for the seventh level bear animal companion (which is medium size) and then make it large, add +2 str etc.


Exactly. However, as I said, there are only a relatively small number of AC's that can logically be ridden (with four legs and without flight) that are specifically Medium sized when at lvl 7. (There are a few more if you count dinosaurs, but most of them are Large at lvl 7.) Some of them are pretty silly, like a Crocodile. A few are solid like the two Cat variants. If ACs that are Medium+ at lvl 7 are allowable, the options improve dramatically, but I fear that's not the case.


Dave is correct. you'd take the bear animal companion and then apply that large template to it.


So you're able to have any of the listed animal companions if they are already large. Like you could still have a horse, camel, allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium, aurochs, bison, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon, hippopotamus, lion, mastodon, megaloceros, giant snapping turtle, tiger, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus at lv7. But you're also able to have the mediums, like a bear, that grows to large for you.


Saldiven wrote:
Exactly. However, as I said, there are only a relatively small number of AC's that can logically be ridden (with four legs and without flight) that are specifically Medium sized when at lvl 7. (There are a few more if you count dinosaurs, but most of them are Large at lvl 7.) Some of them are pretty silly, like a Crocodile. A few are solid like the two Cat variants. If ACs that are Medium+ at lvl 7 are allowable, the options improve dramatically, but I fear that's not the case.

I'm not quite understanding your point. The ones that aren't medium at level 7 are already large or huge, so they don't need this benefit to become allowable. The paragraph adds to the list, it doesn't take anything away from it.


Chess Pwn wrote:
So you're able to have any of the listed animal companions if they are already large. Like you could still have a horse, camel, allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium, aurochs, bison, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon, hippopotamus, lion, mastodon, megaloceros, giant snapping turtle, tiger, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus at lv7. But you're also able to have the mediums, like a bear, that grows to large for you.

Ok, that's what I was missing. It seemed like it was making the list even more restrictive. My bad.

...still want the kangaroo, though.

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