Finding a Role for a Half-fiend (one with a conscience but not opposed to destroy)

[Firewarden77]

Hello, this is my first post on this site so I will try to encompass all the info I have so far. I make characters a lot and I am always fond of the conflicting matters of a character, such as monster races or half breeds. Thus I pose this question and I hope I don't sound too noobish.

I know in regular play it probably would not work unless I did some serious work, but I want to make a half human/ half-fiend character. I envisioned this guy as more of the chaotic type, while still not going so far as to slaughter an entire town for kicks. I am looking for some way to give this one an ample spell resevior, while still capitalizing on melee attacks.

For this I have thought of making it a magus of some kind, but I would like input on what has worked for others or a way to keep this guy from immediately being destroyed by a paladin without first finding a common ground. Any help is appreciated, and I am open to all ideas
Thank you all in advance

[kestral287]

Mechanically speaking: are we talking the actual Half-Fiend template, or a Tiefling?

A non-Evil Tiefling will shrug off a Paladin. Whether or not they conflict in personality depends on the specific characters in question.

An evil Tiefling or Half-Fiend will really hate Smite Evil (though interestingly, even Half-Fiends don't get the Evil subtype so they're not vulnerable to Smite Evil's nastier function), but again-- whether or not they conflict in personality depends on the specific characters.

[Firewarden77]

Yes, which is why I ask if it is at all possible to make him at least one step away from evil alignment. I speak of a half-fiend of course, and wish to at least make him chaotic neutral to work with both his conscience of the human half and the more destructive tendencies of his devil.

[kestral287]

By RAW, Half-Fiends are Evil, to shift away would require GM consent. Which is doable-- PF lore has included bigger shifts. But it's going to require the GM.

Tieflings can be whatever alignment they please. Seems like it'd work better for your concept (and they're incredibly well suited to the Magus class, since you mentioned that one earlier).

[Firewarden77]

yes they are, but it comes down to the race of tiefling for me. The only one I ever played was a paladin, a goodly one at that, and only long enough to kill a blight druid. Shortly after which our former GM set down some more effective guidelines on races, classes, and the world economy in general. I have wanted to play a tiefling, but I speak of the half-fiend at the moment only because I know not everything is black and white and it was explained to me that a character with the right backstory could in fact swing either the way of good or evil. A case in point I read about was in the Rise of the Runelords.

Rise of the Rune Lords:

Where the final boss I believe of the first book is a Female aasimar who in fact hates her angelic blood and works for lamashtu (hope I said that right) to taint her blood with demonic essence and change it.

So the Half-human/ half-fiend was my intended purpose to try and bring like the "light within the shadows" kinda deal there. Or at least a more "finding my own way" kind of attitude for this character.

That being said, class wise I see him causing havoc on the battlefield with spells and magic, but that can be attained in many different ways

[kestral287]

Aasimar, like Tieflings, are not alignment-restricted, so that example doesn't mean much.

There are, as I said, examples within lore-- at least one AP has a fiend that can be raised to good. But they are incredibly rare, and there are no rules provisions for them. Hence: this isn't a problem that we can solve for you. The only way you're going to pull this off is with explicit GM permission (which you need to run a Half-Fiend anyway, so that's really a rider on a greater conversation).

[Firewarden77]

I see, well with that I guess I am a bit closer. thank you kestral, you were a very big help

[Firewarden77]

oh, I completely forgot about that. my apologies to anything I have ruined. Still new to the messageboard and I didn't mean to ruin it.

[bigrig107]

Wow. Accidentally deleted my post.

Here's how to spoiler something, by the way.

[ spoiler= name] whatever you want to spoiler [ /spoiler ]

Except, remove the spaces.

[Firewarden77]

Well then I guess next would be what would be best to do with the half-fiend. Assuming I get the GM's permission to do so, class wise I would like o be a spellcaster of some sort. I'm relatively unskilled with combinations for feats and such so any hints?

[bigrig107]

In the first bracket, you still need the "spoiler=" part.

Magus seems to be the way you're heading, what with the "blending" of magic and melee.

[Firewarden77]

Ok, so magus is the idea. any magus tips anyone can offer?

As for the spoiler, thanks again bigrig107 for the help. unfortunately I cannot alter it now because the edit is gone. I'll be more careful next time, so thank you again

[kestral287]

Well, the Half-Fiend can do... literally anything.

Since it's applied on top of another race, the question becomes more that of the race under it (but only so much, because even the least useful race for a given class would still be advantaged by it).

For a Magus, your most advantageous combinations are going to be placing it on top of an Elf, Human, or Tiefling. These are advantaged by a good stat spread, which Half-Fiend can augment massively-- for an Elf, I'd place the +4s in Dex/Con/Int, giving you +6 Dex/Int, +2 Everything Else. That's a massive edge in your core stats. Human would go pretty much the same, except you get a +6 in either Dex or Int in exchange for getting a +4 Con. Tiefling would give you +6 Dex/Int, +4 Con, +2 Str/Wis, +0 Cha.

That said, even a mechanically weak race for the class will come out very strong, so that's largely up to you.

Going forward with the Magus, it's traditionally an easiest class to play Dex-based, because it makes the first levels much less of a pain to survive. If that's not a worry-- because you're starting with 7+ Magus levels usually, though sometimes just because of nice rolled stats or some other advantage-- then you have a lot more free feats.

Assuming Dex-based, baseline Magus, Kensai, Hexcrafter, and Beastblade are excellent choices. Some like the Bladebound; I do not-- but it stacks with all of those save Beastblade, so it's a call on your shoulders.

Your first feats will probably go into Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance; if you go Kensai that can be Weapon Finesse and Fencing Grace instead (or Slashing Grace, if you favor the Whip or Aldori Dueling Sword-- the whip is a strong option, the dueling sword not so much).

After that, you'll want Rime Spell or Intensify Spell (as dictated by Frostbite vs. Shocking Grasp), and you'll want to spend a pair of arcanas (or an arcana and a feat, more likely) on Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed: Precise Strike. That's pretty much the cookie-cutter core Magus; everything else is up the air based on your preferences.

Traits, one will likely go to Magical Lineage or Wayang Spellhunter, applied on either Shocking Grasp or Frostbite. What that gives you, paired with Rime Spell or Intensify Spell, is either a 1st-level Touch-range spell that caps at 10D6 damage or a 1st-level Touch-range spell that does 1D6+level in nonlethal damage and renders the target Fatigued and Entangled. The big advantage of Frostbite is that it lasts for multiple attacks, however it's much more common to see a monster immune to it than to Shocking Grasp. Personally I favor Grasp for requiring less investment and being easier to manage overall-- though for Beastblades, Frostbite is absurdly good come level 11.

That's pretty much Magus setup in a can. They're pretty strict on the first five levels or so if you want to go for the standard build, but after that they're wide open.

[Firewarden77]

The elf sounds like the best way to go. As for the magus I will go hexcrafter. Sounds like it would be good for the RP value too

[Firewarden77]

I created it successfully and have named him Cial. I will use him myself in my adventure paths and I wanna thank you for your help Kestral and bigrig.

[The Shaman]

Hm, I was just about to offer the oracle as an interesting alternative class, and I see at the end you already made a character :) The idea about a half-fiend touched by the divine, unholy, or just supernatural has merit imo. Some of the curses and mysteries can fit quite well - for example, the tongues curse can be a great thematic fit for a half-outsider oracle, and many outsiders have a theme that can be represented as a mystery. The planar tie also explains being able to use "divine" magic without a direct link to a deity.

[Firewarden77]

That would indeed be a very interesting alternative. Shamans aren't like oracles, but I have played an oracle before as a tengu. What would you suggest friend?

[Firewarden77]

Well Shaman, I would love to hear more about this oracle idea. I've only played one once and I would love to give it another spin. As for the Mystery for it what would you suggest? I've seen a few interesting ones and I played an Ancestor oracle a bit in a solo campaign but I would what would be a good one for a half-fiend?

[The Shaman]

I have only played a flame oracle for a while, so I would not claim to have some great wisdom :) . As I see it, unless you are aiming for something incredibly optimized, you can try pretty much any mystery and curse that fits your concept, and in particular the kind of fiendish blood your character has. Pretty much any mystery has enough good choices to last you through the adventure.

If you want to get a mystery that will fit the "dark and evil" stereotype easily (so you can deconstruct it with roleplaying) bones, flame, outer rifts, dark tapestry, juju or occult are the easy choices. Really, though, it's all about flavor and how you describe it. Think woods and life are cutesy and friendly? Shub-Niggurath from the Cthulhu mythos is all about darkened woods, dark, twisted fecundity and the birthing of things any sane soul would flee away from in horror. Maybe your mystery fits your infernal parent, making you sort of a sorcerer in that regard - i.e. the spawn of a demon prince from the Black Ice Peak might be a natural candidate for a somewhat "reskinned" version of the water mystery. Or perhaps your character was somehow touched by something divine (as in, a deity, not necessarily a good one - but who's going to tell Sarenrae she can't for some odd reason give a spark of power to the child of a daemon?), and the Mystery matches it, whether your character like it or not.

For a curse, tongues would imo be the most fitting - i.e. your character may be speaking in abyssal when pushed. Others can also work. It really is all about reflavoring. Lame? You have one goat leg and one normal one, good luck running on that. Deaf? Oh, you wish you were deaf - it's just that you hear things from someplace else. Or maybe you did, before maiming yourself so you don't have to endure it anymore. Haunted? Anything from almost-immaterial imps growing stronger near you and tormenting you from a curse carried through the bloodline to bind those who would not serve your parent's dark master - thankfully weakened somewhat from your diluted blood.

In terms of build, just focus on a role and aim to be good in it. Decide if you want to be a warrior or a caster first, and plan accordingly. Half-fiends get a lot of stat boosts - just be careful in case your DM adjusts your level down, which to be honest might not be undeserved with all the bonuses you get (another reason to consider tiefling first), as that hurts, especially for casters. There are some good guides out there, and check some of the newer discussions - that's how I found out about gems such as the divine protection feat (divine grace for oracles, warpriests etc).

[Firewarden77]

The tongues curse sounds perfect honestly. As for a certain mystery I think the occult one is very interesting to me. The last oracle I played was an Ancestor one, and I never got high enough in level to ever get any of the better revelations. Though I never knew about the cthulu stuff. cutesy and friendly is never fun and I know nature is fricking scary. Three saberttoth tigers, a dire bear, a tiger both dire and regular tell me that. Not to mention the bees. Oh so many BEEEEEES!